[freaktech]

Yeah, I have nothing against Mac users. I also like when they say Macs just work. Well yeah they do when you are only putting your OS on a few variations of hardware and can optimize the system for that. If you look at all of the articles about people trying to install OSX on non Mac speced hardware all sorts of bugs pop up. Windows has to run on so many variations.

[rtfire1]

Thanks for the great LOL mac users. I have to friends that are work with builging web pages and putting out printed docs like mags and news papers the both have top of the line mac books and a beat up old p4 running xp that they run every thing on before its sent out. I like macs but there just not a work horse like a pc.

[guitarest]

Wait a minute when did this become a Mac vs Windows subject? This is about a faulty software program that is over loaded with code and is nothing but a revised version of XP and is more faulty and way slower than XP and a memory hog just so the uneducated consumer can see pretty pictures and they don't know these things. Why else does a base line laptop need so much ram to run. And once the patch is applied the machine will be exactly 25 - 40% slower. Way to go Microsoft, nothing like helping your product along. In closing the only reason your product is doing so well is because only in the Business Community is XP still available and you have forced all Retail Stores to sell only Vista and forcing Software outlets to only sell one of 8 different flavors of VISTA, again its only a unpdated example of Win ME

[guitarest]

Wait a minute when did this become a Mac vs Windows subject? This is about a faulty software program that is over loaded with code and is nothing but a revised version of XP and is more faulty and way slower than XP and a memory whore just so the uneducated consumer can see pretty pictures and they don't know these things. Why else does a base line laptop need so much ram to run. And once the patch is applied the machine will be exactly 25 - 40% slower. Way to go Microsoft, nothing like helping your product along. In closing the only reason your product is doing so well is because only in the Business Community is XP still available and you have forced all Retail Stores to sell only Vista and forcing Software outlets to only sell one of 8 different flavors of VISTA, again its only a updated example of Win ME

[KidHorn]

Every time Microsoft comes out with a new OS, everyone complains and states their are many bugs. After a few years, things die down and the cycle repeats.

I've been a developer on PCs since the early 1990's and many of the so called OS bugs are actually application and driver bugs. They're not the fault of Microsoft. Anyone who'se done a lot of development knows that code acts differently on different machines with different software and/or hardware setups. It's because you can have a bug in your code that doesn't produce a bad effect on one computer and the exact same program produces an error on another. Typically this is because the program is overwriting something it shouldn't and what's being overwritten can be harmless on computer A, but on computer B, a code segment that's about to be executed is overwritten by a database record that's was just saved and the code instuctions no longer make any sense.

The same thing happens with operating systems. Almost all programs and drivers link to APIs that are part of the OS. The APIs may be backwards compatable between XP and Vista, meaning the way they look the same to application developers, but the code behind the APIs may be much different. Sometimes a program can use an API incorrectly and it doesn't cause problems with a particular OS, but a new OS comes out and problems arise. The problems are not the fault of the OS, it's the fault of the application. The problems were never caught with the older OS since no observable problems occurred while testing. What happens with good vendors is they quickly fix their code so it works with the new OS and post downloads. This is the primary reason print and video drivers have new versions when new OS's are released.

My experience with my own applications is it's rare that a problem is actually the fault of the operating system. It's almost always a bug that's found while debugging with a new OS. Occasionally, the problem is actually with the new OS.

There's no realistic way Microsoft or any other vendor can prevent these errors. What they do is have a lot of beta releases of their new OS so developers can test, but it's not fool proof. The main reason more problems are found with Windows is there's a lot more third party software that runs on Windows than on any other OS.

[blindkik]

"The Mac users always say that you can't do the same things on a PC that
you can on a Mac. Show me. I will then show you it can be done on a PC..."





Show me how it can be done on a PC, and I'll show you how it will crash on a PC.

[rtfire1]

Show mw a mac dvr that can run 473 days with out crashing or being shut off. when I moved back in aug I did my updates that i had not done and it has been on 24/7 from then. xpm 2005 rocks vista to

[freaktech]

If you don't load all the malware and crap most people do on a PC they won't crash. Unfortunately most people that write malware and spyware will not target less the 10% of the market. :)

[gginf]

Installed Vista SP1...Performance has improved leaps and bounds. Believe me, The best OS has arrived in the market.

[gginf]

For all Vista bashers(Please read the user comments). Best/Right reporting on Vista.

http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft Announces Q2 Earnings Pleased With Vista Xbox 360/article10475c.htm

[joe620]

Great post KidHorn,

Finally a discussion where people who know a little about the subject are starting to outnumber the sheep in the "I saw on the Internet how MS sucks so it must be true" herd. Although I am sure we will soon be outnumbered once again :-(

[joe620]

In response to all if the people that believe windows crashes when the wind blows I say this. First of all, See the post by KidHorn, Second, stop downloading everything you see on the web because most likely it has malware, third, stop using Windows 95. I have been running Vista since the November business release and I have not had one crash. I develop on that machine as well as general usage. I often have Outlook, some version of an IM, Visual Studio, and SQL Server MGR open at once and I have no problems.
One tip for people that are having problems and for this I clearly blame MS. Do not upgrade to Vista or install from the GUI. You must set up the machine to boot from CD first. When promped hit a key to launch the CD. Reformat your drive and do a complete install. The GUI install does NOT do a true full install and you are sure to have problems with stability ... especially if you are going to be on a domain.

[ikec70]

After performing the VISTA upgrade check, the report said there were no problems with the upgrade.......WRONG.......WRONG.......WRONG....
When I updated my system to VISTA, there were MAJOR errors and failures. I gave up after one week of trying to get it to run.
My conclusion, VISTA might run on new hardware, but forget about upgrading if you have a computer that is 2-3 years old. From my experience, it DOES NOT WORK!

[joe620]

See my post right above yours ... that is the only way to ensure a proper install

[ikec70]

You make a good point, but the purpose of UPGRADING for me was to still be able to use the compatible VISTA hardware and software from my XP machine without re-installing it from a clean, reformatted install. Additionally, it is Microsoft's fault if they provide software that indicates that your hardware and software will work work, and it does not work.
BTW, before my install, I completely scanned my computer using several products (commerically purchased, name brand vendors), defraged my system, and removed any software and hardware that my cause a problem, so malware was not an issue. If an UPGRADE means that you need to do a clean install then in my opinion, it just is NOT a UPGRADE in the sense that it has been in the past.

[joe620]

ikec,

I hear ya and agree with you. It is quite a pain to re-install everything not to mention backing up all of your files. That is one area that MS fails over and over again. I have never really been able to do a good upgrade on Windows. Other products such as Office seem to be fine but the OS never seems to upgrade right.

[SCOOPNJ78]

Like I said, Vista comes crashing down faster than the hotel by the same name that was attached to the WTC


Wonder why Microsoft named the OS after a fallen hotel in 911?

[McDaveH]

Photos on DVD? I was referring to the video? Though your cousin is right we've moved past discs and now post our HD video & photos to YouTube or .mac galleries with a single click. I'm sure you could find free/trial Windows software to do any job that you can on a Mac unfortunately how they work ensures it'll never become a regular thing and explains the lack of any real results when visiting friends with Windows (just loads of talk and peering at someone trying to manage files on a PC).

As a software engineer I'm sure you realise you're partly the reason why this is. My deal is for the past 15 years I've been an IT recruiter and I worked for a solutions provider for 10 years before then. My clients range from vendors of different flavours and many in-house IT shops, it gives me just about the broadest IT market view possible. Of the several hundred software engineers I've interviewed during that time most wanted to move because their 'manager didn't understand technology' - basically they didn't want to be told what to do by people who actually have an idea of what they're trying to achieve. As a Mac user you can clearly see the reason why Windows users rarely achieve anything useful with their PCs even though they 'could' - bad software design. In the last 15 years I've never once been asked to hire a real designer only ever technicians and engineers who think they are but lack the necessary skills to ever be one. Despite self-proclamation of being 'architects' none of them understand how real people do things - why was the software ever going to be useful? I work for a multi-national company and our enterprise CRM system is a classic example of software that ticks off all the functional points but how it works is fundamentally, commercially counter-productive.

Vista Service Pack releases won't fix that but for anyone who wants a product that's actually been designed by real designers and which will inspire normal people to get the job done again & again you can either wait 10 years while the geeks move aside and let the designers get involved (as the mature industries have) or you can get a Mac right now. To all the people who think joe620 or KidHorn's justifications & workarounds sound like trying to fix your car with a Japanese service manual - it's not you, not all computers work (or not) this way.

To cover off some of the other strange posts; you don't need to relegate your Mac to a DVR to get over a year in between reboots - just use it normally, MS hatred we don't really have any (you'll have to speak to the open source community for that) like everyone I use Windows at work and have many friends who've defaulted to Windows and could have done much better. There's nothing wrong with Windows, it's just a bad copy of OSX & these days we can afford the real thing.

McD

[peanutjake]

Vista needs a built-in FAX program.

[joe620]

wow long response ... Again, I have used both macs and PCs and there is nothing you can do on a mac that you can't on a PC. If you read my earlier reply instead of just picking out the parts you thought you could exploit you would see it wasn't about putting photos on DVD or whatever extremely easy task you are trying to say is impossible or almost impossible on Windows. I have this argument with Mac designers all the time. The same tools and even more are available for Windows that are on Mac and they work the same way. For expample, all Adobe and Macromedia (now Adobe) tools are identical with the exception of some key commands. The only exception is I feel Mac has some nice video tools that are much more cost effective and they are only available on a Mac. Please list all the things that you can't do on Windows and I am 100% sure I will tell you they can be done ... and done easily.

Anyway, my whole point is Windows is a work machine, Mac is toy. Posting videos to U-tube is not "work" it is "fun" and even if it was you can easily do this on Windows.

Also, How is windows a bad copy of OSX? Windows is not based on FreeBSD ... OSX is. THey are totally different. Mac OS is a good system no doubt but the problem is not the OS. It does exactly what it is designed for ... household computing. Surf the web, check your email, post to your blog, and if you are a designer I give you it is pretty nice for work ... until you have to do some other non-design task.