[reddish]

I believe that the article is misleading. Those systems are plenty good for non experts and they will allow users to do what they want, as long as they don't assume that they are working with windows (like the reviewer did). In normal use it is not required to use a command line at all, unless you choose to.

[handydan918]

I don't know what kind of review anyone expected from a rag that gets 99% of it's revenue from the WinTel cartel. Just look through the ads and see...

This is just what I'd expect from shills who have never spent a month away from their Windows (in-)security blanket. All that was missing is the "Brought to you by Microsoft" emblem.

[AdrielK]

On 3/3/08 I received my Mirus MIRLC420V(ordered via Sears.com on 2/28/08). Its Model No. is similar to the one you tested and evaluated,namely SITLC420. That same day my copy of PCWorld arrived at my home. On 3/4/08 I unpacked the carton, relaxed, and thumbed thru PCWorld Mag. Needless to say, I was shaken re the apparent folly of my purchase. But upon closer reading of your article, Mr. Stafford, I concluded all sorts of discrepancies and biases needed to be addressed. As one who put his money where his mouth is, I feel justified in my rebuttal.

First of all, just because I shop at Sears, etc doesn't mean I necessarily operate on a tight budget. I used Sears as a weathervane to corroboratet that an inexpensive Linux Desktop is commercially viable in a venue that will permit me to surf, eMail and play Solitaire, etc as befitting my senior/retired status. Sears, I'm confident, will subsequently give me leverage should there be rebate problems.

To me, the computer is a tool similar to Sears Craftsman tools that also afford good value. Sears "sales blurb hype" suggested that Freespire/Mirus offers such a value. I'll report on this the future as I slowly progress.

In the meantime I'd like to comment on your comments. Mirus did come with a Manual, unfortunately it was a User Guide for the ASUS Motherboard P5GC-MX/1333. Based on my reading of this same manual, while marginally useful to my info needs, it did describe the quality features of the MotherBoard: product highlights such as- ASUS CrashFree BIOS 2; ASUS EZ Flash, ASUS Q-Fan Technology plus more. Most of which I technically didn't really appreciate but sure sounded suspiciously like I'm paying "Fair Prices for Superior products. Keyboard, Mouse and Speakers is a subjective/relative issue; your verdict should not be held as gospel.

Some one else mentioned cumbersome, a non-technical, subjective label signifying, nothing and of NO help to me in evaluating the product, whether you meant hardware, Linux OS or both.

My Sears rebate offer states "allow 8-10 weeks" not your reported 3-4 months. I'm mailing mine in today 3-7-08, I'll report back on my rebate's receipt.. If there should be a problem, I'm sure that I, as a valued SEARS customer will be ok..

Incidentally, one other reason I went with this purchase was to finally abandon my corrupted WinME PC (and its lack of support) so I may use its VGA monitor to complete the FreeSpire/Mirus package. Right now I Ethernet cabled the Mirus to my NetGear Router RT314 and am gaining the courage to see just what I really have as soon as I log on to my cable ISP.

Should I get into trouble, I'll call the 877 toll free number referenced on my packing slip (and also stickered on my desktop's case, despite your assertion that no such support exists for Mirus. I tried calling it last evening, waited 3 minutes for a tech's voice in response. I had also tried earlier that morningduring prime-time but gave up after an hour and ten minutes. The latter, incidentally, is my average chat waiting time when seeking support from my Win-XP's Anti-Virus Security provider, using off-shore techs.

Finally, I surmise you "discouraged" cheap, Linux OS PCs since wanderers such as I, would no longer lean on PCWorld for a constant barrage of "fixes", help, etc. thus reducing my time perusing "Windows"-related ads,etc.

This is my first posting ever to a PC computer-related Forum and I don't know if my snail-paced follow-up postings will be possible and/or of value. I guess time will tell.

With hopeful optimism I'll be usung my Freespire/Mirus to access this site and make my reports. Some one please advise me if I'm taking all this too seriously and I'll crawl back into my shell.

[CDBaric]

"With hopeful optimism I'll be usung my Freespire/Mirus to access this site and make my reports. Some one please advise me if I'm taking all this too seriously and I'll crawl back into my shell."

Well done - please enjoy the experience.

As for the author, I think you hit the nail on the head when you stated, "I surmise you "discouraged" cheap, Linux OS PCs since wanderers such as I, would no longer lean on PCWorld for a constant barrage of "fixes", help, etc. thus reducing my time perusing "Windows" -related ads, etc."

Boy, did you get that right!

Best regards,

Bar

[pcwsk4]

The fact that manufacturers cannot build a great linux machine for cheap is ridiculous. Look at the lime-green laptop; 200 bucks for a laptop! Desktops should cost a fraction of laptops.

[uburu]

While the hardware on these may not be anything great, to say that Linux isn't for average users is to truly not understand Linux or average users. The sad truth is that the vast majority of computer users have very little understanding of what they are doing. Fortunately, a good Linux distribution is actually easier to use than windows (not installing but using - most people don't install windows either). I think the people that would be interested in a cheap computer are precisely the people that would be looking for something very basic. They don't need vista and they don't need the expense associated with it. You may need to relearn some things but, hey, that's life. If you drove a car all your life and then bought a motorcycle you wouldn't expect to be off and riding the same day.

Now, if you consider yourself a windows power user (which in many circles is a derogatory word describing someone who thinks they know more than they do) you will not enjoy Linux. Linux is not windows and works very differently. If you try and do things the windows way you will fail. That is not the fault of Linux. You simply need to accept the fact that being windows savvy is not equal to being computer savvy. Chances are you spent years learning your way around windows. You can't expect to learn Linux in just weeks or even months. I switched two years ago and am still learning, but I can do everything I need to do and more.

[uburu]

If your hardware maker doesn't support Linux then blame the hardware maker. Linux supports tons of hardware but it can never support everything if the manufactures don't cooperate. Most of the world is slowly seeing the benefits of and moving towards Linux. If the US doesn't keep up it will be passed up.

[Kiaya83]

Amazing, I just got done reading "Yes, my grandma can run Ubuntu Linux" over at CNET and now I am reading that "If you aren't a die-hard Linux fan, these PCs aren't for you"!
You need to separate the computer hardware from the Operating System. Sure, I believe the computer hardware is cheap and of poor quality but I assure you the Linux Operating Systems are not. I use gOS on one of my home machines and find it very simple and relatively mindless to use....you see a Firefox logo on the tool bar, you press it and it launches Firefox. I don't think you need to be a "die-hard Linux fan" to figure that out.
What an ignorant article from a PC magazine. Get yourself more educated on the world and the distributions of Linux before you write an article trying to bash it

[musashi]

How can you claim a $200 computer isn't
a bargain? If you can get online, send email, shop eBay, write a
letter to grandma, etc, then it's totally a bargain. To expect more
for this price is really naive. And to complain about the low quality
parts is ridiculous. Of course it has cheap components - that's why
it's cheap.

As for the Linux OS, I don't think Mr.
Stafford is a qualified and unbiased reviewer. He clearly knows
little about modern Linux distributions. For example, you don't need
to the command line to run Linux - to admin it, maybe; to install it,
maybe; to use it, decidedly NO. Come on, quit shilling for MS and
admit that Linux is a serious contender. It's not perfect, yet, but
it's certainly worth serious consideration. (Full Disclosure - This
review was written entirely on a Linux box that purrs like a kitten.)

[chipbennett]

I'm glad to see that the user community won't let this "review" fade away.

One thing not mentioned in my original comment: the author made no mention of trying to install or run a Windows OS on either machine. It would be salient, and probably interesting, to know whether or not these machines can even run WinXP, much less how well they perform thusly.

@kilme: In my brief experience with Linux (Ubuntu/Kubuntu), doing normal, every-day tasks is indeed easier. For that matter, installing new software is much easier. Granted, one will have to be shown how to click on "Add/Remove Programs" (basic, easy) and/or "Synaptic Package Manager" (slightly more advanced) - but, once shown such methods, their ease compared with software installation under Windows becomes immediately apparent.

For that matter, what more do "average" computer users do on a computer? Email, internet browsing, instant-messaging, and occasional (or, more-than-occasional, for students) document creation/editing comprise the vast majority of screen time for the "average" computer user. (Of course, I am speaking from my own anecdotal experience with immediate/extended family, friends, etc.).

I have been using OpenOffice.org, KDE-PIM, Amarok, Pidgin, kAudioCreator, kFlickr, etc. in lieu of these apps' Windows analogs - and in my experience, they are as easy (or easier) to use (and in may cases, better). I do not believe the learning curve of these apps for the "average" computer user would be very steep at all.

Most such "average" computer users don't spend their time needing (or wanting) to install new software. Yes, some hardware installation needs will come up from time to time (new camera, MP3 player, etc.) - but most of these types of hardware work just fine "out of the box" in Linux (again, in my experience).

Downloading photos from my camera, organizing them, and uploading to Flickr? Eaiser under Kubuntu than under WinXP. PIM needs (email, contacts, calendar)? As good or better and easier with KDE-PIM than Outlook under WinXP. (And Thunderbird/Lightning is also available with its cross-platform goodness.) Instant messaging (using several protocols)? Seamless, using the cross-platform Pidgin. Ripping and organizing my CD collection, and transferring songs to my MP3 player? Simple, faster, and better using kAudioCreator and Amarok than using WMP in WinXP. And anyone familiar with MS Office (any version pre-2007) will have no problems whatsoever getting comfortable and becoming productive with OpenOffice.org.

As for hardware - sure, some hardware does cause issues; that said, blame the manufacturers, not Linux. Yeah, I had to use ndiswrapper to get my wi-fi working in Ubuntu 7.04 - but, again, that's the hardware manufacturer's fault.

And, again, the bottom line: these $200 linux machines are available for less than the cost of a Microsoft OS - much less the cost of the hardware required to run that OS.

[ik04]

This reviewer has absolutely no clue what he is talking about...
"these machines are very poor choices for the folks the two stores usually cater to." That is absurd. These stores cater to ordinary people who cannot afford expensive IT equipment and merely want to surf the web and send and receive email.

This guy has only casual, probably recreational knowledge of Linux and is not qualified to critique any version available preloaded on a retail PC! Listen to this line: "But more
important, while the gPC has a slightly easier-to-use version of Linux
than the Mirus does, I found both Linuxes to be extremely cumbersome
(and I've experimented with Linux distributions before)." He even admits that he has only "eperimented" with Linux distributions.

Further, he says: " If you aren't
a die-hard Linux fan, these PCs aren't for you." Again, the entry-level users of these entry-level PCs have little concern if they are using Vista, Six different possible Linux distro's or Mac OS 10! They just want an affordable PC. These computers fill that requirement well.

Perhaps a more thorough screening of the quality of these headlined reviews is in order. PC World blew it on this one- Big Time!

[AdrielK]

I'm back as promised re feedback on the Mirus/Sears FreeSpire computer I purchased on 3/3/08.. I've since used the 800 toll free number for tech support. The problem: I couldn't figure out why the case's front had a great big bluish searchlight-like light shining during my power-on time; turned out to be strictly for aesthetics. As my grand kids remarked its "cool". My wait time - 2 minutes.

Very surprisingly, three days after mailing in my rebate application directly to Mirus, I received a phone call from Mirus. It appeared I had carelessly failed to enclose a self-addressed-stamped-envelope (something, I admit, I've never done in all the many years I've been submitting rebate mailings) and would I please comply asap. WOW! Most companies would have leaped at this opportunity to disqualify my rebate application and sent my $100 to their bottom line. Speaks mountains re their integrity (and their parent company Equus Computers).

While navigating the "Windows-like" GUI enabled me to set up my monitor, log onto the internet, etc. I decided to take my education one step further. Not really necessary, but in keeping with my nature. Just as I have a personal library of books on DOS, Win3.1,95,ME,XP for further knowledge, beyond trial and error, I went and purchased a book "Ubuntu for Non-Geeks" by Rickford Grant, to provide a more in- depth foundation. Just stumbled on this only copy at my local B&N, and one of the few times I've paid list price for a book. Excellent investment. Not only did I learn about the Gnome version of Ubuntu vs its KDE counterpart on my Mirus (look at me, one week later and I'm throwing around Linux terms) but I discovered an easy way to resurrect my WinME that's hopelessly corrupted (and of course no longer supported by Mr. Gates).

The book included a CD-Rom that holds the entire install for Ubuntu Desktop version 7.0.4, BUT can also be used as a live CD to run Ubuntu on your computer directly from its CD-Rom player. The really interesting thing re this (so far in theory, I haven't tried this yet, on my hope to be resurrected, WinME eMachine) is that I can keep all my current peripherals hooked up and discover via the live CD if they're recognized and compatible with Linux.

So I'll sign off here and leave this as a topic to reintroduce my next revisit.. Hopefully this will continue to keep this topic alive in PCWorld and continue to encourage others for a similar migration, especially since you can do this "on the cheap", with a live cd-rom, while still maintaining your current computer as is. Just for emphasis, as I understand it from my reading, using the live CD installs NOTHING onto your hard-drive. Like it, then install it as a dual bootup or for the more courageous, a stand-alone.

You are also encouraged to loan/give your Ubuntu CD-Rom to friends, others, etc.for legal, opensource installation, onto their computers. So buy the book; share the CD. Don't like it, remove it and you're back to status-quo.

I shall return.

[chipbennett]

Hi AdrielK, and thanks for following up on your experience!

I have Ubuntu for Non-Geeks, and thought it was really good, especially for someone new to Ubuntu, Linux, and the open-source alternatives to Windows-compatible software. I think the Official Ubuntu Book (currently in Second Edition) is also great.

The LiveCD is great, isn't it? Indeed, it will install nothing on your hard drive, as it runs completely from the CD-ROM. Also, if you go to the Ubuntu web site, you can download the latest version (7.10 - "Gutsy Gibbon") of either the GNOME-based Ubuntu (as is on the LiveCD) or the KDE-based Kubuntu (which will be similar to your KDE-based Mepis). If you don't have a broadband connection (which is pretty much required for downloading 700MB), you can even have Canonical (the company that supports Ubuntu) send you an installation disk - for free. Better yet: wait until next month, when the next version of Ubuntu (8.04 - "Hardy Heron") comes out.

Also, please do keep reporting on your progress with your Mirus system. And if you decide to install Ubuntu on your old WinME machine, and need some help, come back here (or head over to the great ubuntuforums.org), and I'm sure you'll be able to get all the assistance you need!

Cheers!

[AdrielK]

Hi, back to you, Chip. I intend to keep this post alive by making timely feedbacks. I welcome you as an ally.

All sorts of progress since my last post. Mirus did such a good job with their installed software that I'm surfing with FireFox and eMailing with Thunderbird, the two things most desired by a new User. I'll explore Office next and test my Printer. No hurry. Any one should be able to do the same, though setting up eMail required previous exposure on identifying pop-serverinfo supplied by your specific ISP. My ISP, Road-Runner has made things more difficult for eMail clients by converting all our eMail to WebMail, accessible from any computer, by seeking WebMail on the RR site and always entering your eMail password. Fortunately this same eMail password stands you in good stead when setting up Thunderbird, eVolution eMail clients, even when setting up OutLook Express on WinXP. According to RR tech support, RR no longer supports these clients and you must get tech assistance from MicroSoft, Ubuntu, etc.

My last area of concern on the Mirus is checking to see if my Brother HL-1440 Laser Printer is supported. From what i quickly saw via the Help tool I expect it to be ok, since Brother appears to be one of the more dedicated manufacturers supporting Linux. I guess that's one more way to compete with Goliath HP. Right now I'm in no hurry since my WinXP handles these print/copy chores.

The reason I'm so cavalier re Mirus, is my diversion into converting my WinME, eMachine (vintage 2001) to Ubuntu via the CD enclosed with the previously mentioned book by Rickford Grant, my hero. My initial attack was to correct my corrupted WinME via eMachine's supplied Restore-CD. After many unsuccessful attempts gave up. Defrag and ScanDisk also corrupted so I said Bah! lets install Ubuntu. Long story short, this was a snap, No Problems, just followed directions. Ubuntu repartioned automatically, formatted, etc. The only apprehension I had was that my emachine's memory, maxed out at 256Mb, would just meet the minimum required for Ubuntu. As Mr. Grant cautioned, installation would be S.l.o.w. It was, almost an hour and a half. But voila, when I rebooted via Hard Disk the resulting speed is quite acceptable, though not as snappy (subjective term) as my Mirus FreeSpire. 1 minute, 45 seconds bootup to User Name screen; 23 seconds to shut-down. I suspect tboth will increase as I get more heavily into settings and applications. Any feed back from Users with more powerful PCs would give some sort of reference to expect. I will also supply these same statistics for my Mirus DeskTop during my next post.

Ubuntu has now taken most of my attention, since I'm having fun in learning how to do fundamental setups (change display resolution to my monitor's native 800x600, eg). I'm really getting the urge to do more than just Use Linux but to instead explore its mental challenges and really learn about computer technology, rather than just learning to point and click. I think this is a better way to maintain mental sharpness during my inevitable senior-citizen's decline as opposed to the route most of my fellow seniors are taking, namely crossword puzzles.

My emachine is currently dual-boot. I retained WinME for my grandkids Win games. However I haven't yet had the nerve to boot to my previously corrupted WinME and see How it affects my computer overall. Now that I think of it, I should have created a bootable floppy for WinME, though I suspect I can rescue Ubuntu via BIOS setup change. Advise here would be appreciated.

I'll get back to this site to report on my specifics of meandering thru the different screens of Ubuntu and just how difficult/easy it may befor the novice, non-geek User.

Adios.

[Eric2]

Adriel,

You only describe memory capabilities of your eMachines Ubuntu box. 256 meg was ages ago. I'd expect even an 800 mHz machine to be faster than you describe. In any case, Ubuntu is not designed to be use on legacy equipment. It is an up-to-date distro that expects to be used on up-to-date equipment. Ubuntu arbitraliy sets swap to be the same as physical memory thereby doubling the effective memmory of your computer. This can be manually increased during the manual install process, but it can also be done later. Follow these directions. https://help.ubuntu....mmunity/SwapFaq

There are distros meant for minimum capability machines, whether legacy or otherwise, and these might be a better bet for you to use on your eMachine. Many aps will be different than the Ubuntu aps, but they will get work done efficiently. Puppy Linux and DSL (Damn Small Linux) come to mind. I have not tried Puppy, but I put DSL on an ancient (early P2) IBM laptop and it ran reasonably well.

[Janvl]

With 256 Mb one could try Xubuntu, without KDE or Gnome but with Xfce it uses less resources.

BTW you can run the same apps with DSL or Puppy as with Ubuntu.

You get more speed if you chose lighter apps, there has been an article on this at

http://www.osnews.com.



Success

[kcihtred2]

for the average joe-schmo, linux isn't the answer. Its too complicated. and honestly i can build a better pc for that price from newegg, with myself blindfolded

[freedom]

Actually I am a "Joe Schmoe" and have been running linux successfully for 4 years.

to install you answer 5 questions, "where are you" "english or anothe language " "would you like mto install on the free area of your disk"

would you like the bootloader to" add your windows partition" "create a user name" then the system is installed, it will tell you to reboot your computer, then viola a new operaating system, no hunting down drivers and other nonsense, point and click at the pretty icons.

hard;y brain surgery

[uburu]

"for the average joe-schmo, linux isn't the answer. Its too complicated. and honestly i can build a better pc for that price from newegg, with myself blindfolded"



No you can't. The cheapest mobo, cpu, ram, case w/psu, hd, cd drive will cost you $200 or more and you will have a very cheap computer, not a one better. And what OS are you going to put on it? Windows will set you back another $100 so you no longer have a $200 computer and it will run like a dog. Linux IS the answer for anyone wanting a cheap computer or a high end computer or anything in between. If joe-schmo isn't bright enought to install it himself (which is easier than windows to install) then he can go out and buy one - because finally he can. M$ can't compete at the low end of the market so Linux is going to very rapidly fill this void. Once all the joe-schmos of the world become comfortable with a alternative way of doing things, windows will cease to be the answer for average people. Come back in 5 years and lets talk.

[AdrielK]

I'm replying sooner than I'm prepared just because of all the new activity on this subject in PCWorld. Such irony.

In addition to 256 megs RAM, have Celeron CPU, 633 mhz. 15 G hd.

I just finished booting into WinME; it's still corrupted, freezes,etc. No need to maintain dual boot partitions. Will re-install/partition for entire 15 Gb for Feisty Fawn Ubuntu.

I'm using a 17" eMachines CRT monitor which I switch between eMachines and Mirus. I'm doing this as testing setup to Use my Mirus FreeSpire (also a Ubuntu derivative) as a standard to compare with various installs on the eMachine. I'll be seeking out various "light" distros, as suggested plus whatever else strikes my fancy.

Meanwhile I'll be usig the Mirus, as a non-geek Linus User, surfing, emailing, using Writer,etc and exploring CNR (click and run) software downloads to expand the Mirus's usefulness. I'm printing on my Brother HL 1440 laser Printer so expect no problem hooking it into Mirus, too. Incidentally, I get dual usage out of the Brother, by using its LPT1 parallel connection to my eMachine and its USP connection, simultaneously to my Dell WinXP PC. They're in my small computer room so cable connect is feasible.

If any of you are really interested in the Mirus, go to Sears' site and seek out its purchase; then review the detailed specs of just what you get. As I think I mentioned previously, an indication of quality is to look up the specs on its motherBoard, ASUS P5GC-MX/1333. And if anyone is really interested, I'll be happy to use Properties to access the complete hardware/software details , of my specific vintage 3/3/2008 Mirus/Sears FreeSpire.

With all these continued responses, I'm starting to get a feel for the "community" of Linux Users. I wonder if there's a similar esprit de corps for Vista Users?

I'll be back to continue my reporting and hopefully help to keep this particular subject alive.