[Janvl]

@ kcihtred2

Uburu is right, you cannot make a Windowsbox that cheap.

I had a look at your profile. It is your youth that brings this strong opinion. Being over 50 years old and

having a tiny bit more experience in IT you may take from me that the fundament Linux is build on is

very much better than the one windows is build on.

Buy yourself a book called "Essential system administration" by O'Reilly. It gives a description of the most

important aspects of a unix/linux system. After reading this you might get a better idea what linux is about.

If you really want to learn OS fundamentals, forget Windows and take Linux. I chose Linux because I wanted

something more like VMS (DEC, now HP) with read/write/exec protection on files and I wanted a server for different

tasks.

Good luck with learning.

[AdrielK]

I'm back after about a week; Easter week, family, grandkids, etc. Nothing new to report re the Sears/Mirus Freespire I purchased for $299 and for which I'm awaiting my $100 mail-in rebate (8-10 week promise). It's hard to believe its only about 4 weeks since I got started on this crusade.

My wife is pleased as punch; she cruises with FireFox, eMails with Thunderbird, laser prints favorite articles, etc. In short she can't tell which machine she's really on, except:- notices no freeze ups, much faster bootup and shut down; and has many more games to play and/or seek additional, for free. I myself love the Chess Game.

As for me, I'm cruising the Ubuntu sites, picking up info and gaining more intellectual courage. My Ubuntu machine is slower than the Mirus, but recall, it was originally my WinME, with 256mb ram, 15gb hdd, Celeron 633mz. I've since completely eliminated WinME (too currupted for IE or OE to function and froze up religiously every hour or so) and now have a more fully functional desktop w/o adding anything other than the Ubuntu software. I'm currently awaiting a switch-cable I purchased on the Internet so I may, at the push of a button switch monitors between my live Ubuntu and my live FreeSpire. Less than $20 for the switching cable. I'll report on this too.

We still have the XP, but keep asking ourselves, what for; especially since yesterday I spent a couple of hours with Symantec, reloading a new AntiSpam add-on, which had just been installed early February. I understand XP-sp3 is shortly available; I hope no new adventures await there, though preliminary reports are encouraging for an automatic update. Try to give credit, where credit is due. My FreeSpire is relegated, for now, to commodity stature, a 'box/tool' that requires minimal attention. This will change as I expand my horizons and get more adventurous. I'll report accordingly. The one thing I really admire about Linux,etc is the real spirit of community. Answers/advice, etc. abound.

It's a shame only one rebate is allowed per family; I'd buy another Mirus in an instant and use it as my 'Linux-self-training' computer and bequeth my resurrected Ubuntu machine to my grandkids. Appropriately, in anticipation, I'm researching wireless adapters for my Ubuntu so I may transferred it to their room, and marry to another old VGA crt I still have around.

I shall return with my ongoing saga.

If nothing else in the meantime, google "Ubuntu" and download a live CD to try on your current Windows machine. You'll have an actual OS that runs from the CD and gives you a true Linux desktop experience. Nothing gets added to HDD; you choose to dislike and throw the CD away or like and install directly from the same CD. Use the dual-boot mode so you can still keep your security blanket intact.

Bye...

[AdrielK]

I'm back updating my Mirus/Sears Freespire Linux
adventure. Installed a KVM switch ($14) to conveniently switch my single monitor between the newly purchased Mirus and my Ubuntu resurrected (formerly) WinME desktop. Works great. Keep both computers on (the ubuntu for self teaching Linux), the Mirus for fast surfing, etc. In the process have started to lean to Ubuntu's Gnome Desktop GUI vs FreeSpires KDE dsktop GUI.
Will probably stop reporting after this message, it appears interest is dying out and/or new viewers sre not aware of access.
Final comment. In both machines I really appreciate the ease of locating programs to install, the ease of installation AND the subsequent ease of uninstall should the program lack interest,
It's a pleasure NOT to receive XP messages about not being able to uninstall certain .dlls, etc and leaving behind a lot of junk in the Windows registry.
Goodbye, I guess. At least try a Live CD from Ubuntu to see for your self.

[rtfire1]

I just started using the myth version of Ubuntu. for me there is a lot of learning but for the kids they fly right a long where the don't have to unlearn windows

[AdrielK]

Since I expressed I'm a newbie in Linux, hence my comments re Sears/Mirus, you've piqued my interest. What is a myth version of Ubuntu. I've been cruising their help, etc. sites and don'trecall ever coming across the description, myth.
Message was edited by: AdrielK

[uburu]

MythTV is like open source Tivo. Some energetic people have taken Ubuntu and packaged MythTV with it so you can easily set up Tivo-like hardware. I think it's also a regular Ubuntu underneath so you would have all those benefits too but not 100% sure. I've been wanting to do this but haven't found the time yet. I am 100% Ubuntu at home though so based on that experience I'm pretty sure this is a nice product.

[rtfire1]

[~137519] kinda has it right it is Ubuntu but it has a few things setup diffrent. I am going to download Ubuntu 7.10 to night and then install myth, from what I under stand (an thats not much I am still very very green to linux) installing it this way will give me more of an easyer time setting up Ubuntu an have myth setup the way I want it. It is great and easy to use. and my xpm remote works on it to

[AdrielK]

I ahve Ubuntu 7.04 (can't install latest update 7.10, needs 384mb RAM, my old eMachines Celeron maxes out at 256. Any how I went int add/remove programs, searched for MythTV, it's an available application. In my 7.04 the program states it's only the front end. They also recommend Kubuntu as a better Desktop for MythTV.
Then I opened my Sears/Mirus' Freespire which came with CNR (click & Run) for program selection/download and install. CNR's listing showed 49 downloads available re MythTV. I currently have no interest in this and am not at all certain if I'd have the courage to try what appears to be a very versatile and non run of the mill application for a newbie such as I.

I'm returning to my shell. Suggest you more appropriately seek in-depth info on Ubuntu, Linspire forums. Discussions such as these are in opposition to the original intent of this particular thread, namely intoducing Linux via cheap PC computers configured for average, surf, eMail and wordprocessing, non-guru users. This just perpetuates the "it's too hard" reputation.

[chipbennett]

AdrielK, please do keep coming back to report on your experiences. I think your experience provides a perfect case study for those who claim that migration to Linux for an "average" computer user is still untenable.

I'm glad that you are discovering - and taking advantage of - one of Linux's greatest benefits: choice. You are discovering that your computing experience is more productive/enjoyable using one desktop environment (GNOME) versus another (KDE). In fact, what an amazing discovery, coming from the Windows world, in which only one desktop environment even exists! You have also discovered that not only can the desktop environment be changed to suit your needs, but also that different distributions provide different experiences - and that you have the power, ability, and choice to change from one to another at will.

Regarding MythTV on Ubuntu, look into Mythbuntu: http://www.mythbuntu.org/.

From the Mythbuntu wiki: https://help.ubuntu....ommunity/MythTV

{quote}MythTV is a GPL licensed suite of programs that allow you to build the mythical home media convergence box on your own using Open Source software and operating systems. MythTV is known to work on Linux and Mac OS X (PowerPC and Intel). It does not run on Windows.

MythTV's robust PVR functions allow you to do the following:

* You may pause, fast-forward and rewind live Television.

* You may install multiple video capture cards to record more than one program at a time or use for picture-in-picture functions.

* You may watch and record SDTV and HDTV via firewire if you have a firewire-enabled cable tuner or satellite tuner.

* You can have multiple servers (called "backends" in MythTV parlance), each with multiple capture cards in them. All servers are centrally managed and all programs are scheduled by the Master backend.

* You can have multiple clients (called "frontends" in MythTV parlance), each with a common view of all available programs. Each client can watch all programs recorded by any of the servers, assuming that they have the hardware capabilities to view the content; a low-powered frontend, for example, will not be able to watch HDTV. Clients can be diskless and controlled entirely by a remote control.

* You may use combinations of standard analog capture cards, MPEG-2, MJPEG, DVB, HDTV, USB and firewire capture devices. With a firewire capable backend, MythTV can control a variety of set top boxes often found in digital cable and satellite TV systems.

* Program Guide Data in North America is downloaded from www.schedulesdirect.org (a non profit orgainization) for a fee. This service directly replaces Zap2it's DataDirect service (which is no longer available), and provides MythTV almost two weeks of scheduling information. Program Guide Data in other countries is obtained using XMLTV. MythTV uses this information to create a schedule that maximizes the number of programs that can be recorded if you don't have enough tuners.

* MythTV implements a UPNP server, so a UPNP client may automatically see content from your MythTV system. N.B.: this feature has not been verified to work on every available UPNP client.

* Plugins from the MythTV community provide functionality for: DVDs, Personal Video Collection, Music, Weather, News, Gaming, Netflix and much, much more.{quote}

Regarding this comment:

{quote:title=Adrielk}
>I'm returning to my shell. Suggest you more appropriately seek in-depth info on Ubuntu, Linspire forums. Discussions such as these are in opposition to the original intent of this particular thread, namely intoducing Linux via cheap PC computers configured for average, surf, eMail and wordprocessing, non-guru users. This just perpetuates the "it's too hard" reputation.
{quote}

I actually think that such a discussion very much fits into this thread. Let's say that you decide to use your Mirus/Freespire as a MythTV box; now, suddenly, your $200 investment is a much greater "bargain", as a similar consumer electronic appliance would probably cost at least as much, on its own - and you will have done so all on your own, having taught yourself how to do so. In the process, you will have again disproven the article author's premise regarding the suitability of Linux.

[AdrielK]

Thanks for your reply. As this forum's thread was progressing I'd relegated myself to "voice in the wind" status. But you are right re the new adventure that awaits one. I'm having fun, and exercising the little gray cells in the process.

Also, thanks for the MythTV Links. Now that I got introduced to them, it appears that MythTV is a challenge that I can contain, at least I'll give it a shot. I'm off again in another new direction!

About the only reservation I have about continuing my postings is my sense that this particular thread has petered out. I can't quite fathom how other newbies/wannabees such as I would find their way to this discussion at this stage of its 'life'.

Meanwhile, thanks to your kind words, I'll continue as originally planned. One, almost last, thing, I think I saw a blurb about Microsoft extending sales of WinXP beyond June 2008, to low-medium range OEM PC houses hoping to fight off the relentless thrust of Linux and a growing niche they can't afford to abandon.

To that end, I will ferret out those OEMs , for additional sources of low-priced PCs. I am now truly prepared to abandon my 256mb eMachines box (donate to my grand kids) and properly mount one or more boots of Linux for continued learning, comparing, etc.

Who would have thunk it? Ironic at what PCWorld's Alan Stafford has wrought.

[alizard]

A reviewer who thinks he's Linux-experienced and is talking about ordinary distros requiring command-line installation for applications is seriously delusional. They should have found someone competent.

1.56 CPU 1G DRAM is adequate to support a modern Linux distro, 512M is marginal. As the difference in responsiveness between the Mirus v Everex shows. In fact, 1G of DRAM will support Debian VMware Server, I've done it.

Judging from my last look at gOS, it's not ready for prime time. Judging from my last look at FreeSpire community foruns, there were a whole bunch of posts asking "Where the (expletives deleted) is Linspire?" Which would suggest it isn't ready for prime time, either.

They should simply have gone with Ubuntu... which has a very large user community in a position to help users and a working community infrastructure. Either company could have customized the distro. (so only things which actually work with the hardware are available by default from the repositories)

[S3Indiana]

alizard said:

Judging from my last look at FreeSpire community foruns, there were a whole bunch of posts asking "Where the (expletives deleted) is Linspire?" Which would suggest it isn't ready for prime time, either.

They should simply have gone with Ubuntu... which has a very large user community in a position to help users and a working community infrastructure. Either company could have customized the distro. (so only things which actually work with the hardware are available by default from the repositories)

Linspire and Mirus have a long standing relationship, and the Sears computer was the next logical step. There are thousands successfully running Freespire (including many with the Sears Mirus PC). Linspire and Freespire don't require any additional software for a complete web browsing experience (a plus for OEMs). Reading all the posts in this thread it appears to be a great fit...

[AdrielK]

Just a quick, newbie observation. As I shift back and forth between Freespire and Ubuntu, I feel Ubuntu has an edge re its add/remove system of program downloading vs CNR, which in principle is very attractive but raises a flag by stipulating it's still in Beta. I, for one would be happy to subscribe, but not until CNR/Freespire shows a greater committment to the project. Add/Remove inspires by its feel of solidness.

[Bryanb03]

I am pretty sure that if you have never used any OS before Linux shouldnt be a problem. I am pretty sure the target market is for people that mainly want the use of some office applications, check their email, and browse the internet. These pc's probably aren't gonna win any speed races but they get the job done probably. Working in a IT environment I found that the less things that they can mess up the better. Linux is definitely not WIndows or Mac. But I would take a Linux box over a vista box any day.

[uburu]

Okay, PC World officially sucks. The May issues has two replies to this issue: one calling into question the merits of the "review" and one railing against "Linux freaks". Despite the overwhelmingly positive replies here toward Linux and the general belief that the review was horrible, PC World sets it up as a 50-50 thing and chooses to flame Linux users at the same time. I guess it's a natural reaction when people start to realize their way of life is heading toward extinction. Linux continues to improve. Vista proves MS is going the other direction.

I'm canceling my subscription. PC World is just a MS shill (MacWorld too for Apple). What a bunch of posers. Anyone reading this magazine deserves all the incorrect advice (yep, lots of the articles have flat out mistakes see the home networking article of few months ago) and misinformation.

[rtfire1]

It was a one side linux bash. linux is great I am still learning and can't wait to get all the bugs out of my myth pc build. My problem is you just turned around and blasted a great os vista is great It works great with linux I have a fat 32 hard drive on my network that both os work from for video files and both can get info from the drive at the same time with no issue can't say that for my xp pc. the meg has had a few duds but if far better then the other ones that I was reading also I still love cpu and maxpc but pcworld is the best bang for my buck and most of the time is dead on. to make my point try running linux on a pakered hell which was my first time with linux and keep me away for many years because of issue that where a packered hell problem not a lunix issue. I also like that they did a review even if it was so onesided that someone needs to jump in and write about how great not having to pay to try out an os is. Vista is great on vista pcs I love the fast boot time and speed. xp is good but it is not any good on vista pcs.

[uburu]

Glad you enjoy vista and feel you get your monies worth. I have a dual boot with vista and Ubuntu and Ubuntu boots just as fast - faster if you consider the extra time needed in vista to load and update the mandatory AV and other malware software. You may get a desktop nearly as fast as Linux but not one you can use for at least another minute or two. However, the open source world is about choice and if you choose to use your money to buy proprietary software that is your choice. However, the general concensus among the tech world seems to be that vista is the next ME. I've read dozens of reviews to that effect and many businesses are not upgrading and planning to skip vista altogether - others are moving to Linux or Mac. The MS model is going to slowly die. The rest of the world already sees the benefits of moving away from expensive software and forced upgrades. The US will be slower to change but change it will.

[rtfire1]

vista came on my laptop I thought i was going to hate the os and reinstalled it with xp pro 64 (i tried none 64 but it was to slow for video editing) vista and Ubuntu. the laptop runs vista faster then xp any day of the week if I hade a copy of the vista 64 os i would dump my xp64 but two cores are great when making short paintball home made paintball films. I have played with Ubuntu on my laptop and its just not the right fit for now for me. I upgreated my 5 plus year old xp media pc to vista it ran vista ok but an atholon is to far past its prime to be runing vista even with a gig of ram. This is where Ubuntu kda with myth is my new friend the learning curve is there but from what I have done so fare the 2 tuner cards I have in the boxs one that even thought should have worked with xp media never did work great and no issue now I am working on setting up front ends and back ends for myth I will be over on the myth fourm later this week hoping to get my little issues fixxed. my friend is now running myth with his 200 desktop his walmart was not happy when they pulled the units

[awoll]

These comments are absurd and illogical. To generalize about who shops at a particular store is elitest at best. I shop at Walmart and Sears. I also shop at any store with good prices. I have a degree in EE, and a doctorate in Law. I worked as a computer design engineer for 10 years. I buy parts from Egghead as well as use parts from disassembled machines. I build machines as will as buy them from Dell and others. I had an 8080 box when they first came out, and worked on room size control data systems when that was the corporate standard. Just about every store has bargains at some point. To stay away from Walmart and Sears, just because they try to sell at inexpensive prices is dumb. It is the same reasoning that keeps some shoppers out of Macy's. True, Macy's prices are higher than average, but they have good deals too. The really smart shopper looks for good deals everywhere and rules out nothing. Linux is Unix under a different name. If you have to use command line typing, then all the Unix clones are complicated. If you have to configure Unix clones then you must accept a high learning curve unless you have a GUI that makes it easier. If you are not willing to take time to learn what Linus and Unix are doing under the surface, then stick to windows or Mac. If you want free operating systems that are a little bit of a challenge, then go to Linux and Unix. It is a matter of attitude, not really brainpower.

[bat21win]

Terrible article. If you want to talk bad on an OS, why don't we start with Vista?

I've used somewhere around 30 different flavors of Linux. Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, and OpenSUSE are among the best. Freespire ranked somewhere near the bottom. A ripoff of Kubuntu. Just DL and install something else....

I've run Xubuntu 6.04, PCLinuxOS (2007), and Ubuntu 7.10 on an old pc with only 256mb of ram, 8mb vid memory, and a 350mh processor (with decent performance). That's a far cry from this computer. Just because Windows is terribly bloated, doesn't mean linux is.

The simple fact is that Windows is no better than Linux for the average user. A user that needs advanced video and photo editing might run into problems, but not the average user who only cares about wasting time on Myspace or YouTube. Hardware is really the only problem. And given a computer that is DESIGNED (hopefully) for use with Linux, that shouldn't be a problem.

Until Free Download Manger makes a Linux port, I'll keep my XP installation. Once they do, I'll no longer have a use for it.