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Linux Replacements for Your Favorite Windows Apps
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#42
technicaljedi721 
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:18 PM
I don't think all of Linux's enthusiasts work out of garages at all. Many of them are insanely talented people. However, your argument is a bit lacking. Sun, Novell, IBM, RedHat, and other Linux distros are major corporations. Many of them are even traded as public stock on the NYSE or NASDAQ. All of them have corporate headquarters and thousands of employees. These companies have shareholders and they demand profitability just like any other major corporation. The reason Linux cannot succeed is the fact that the distros each have a slice into the Linux pie. They are so busy protecting their slice of the Linux pie with littigation and licencing. The most obvious was the SCO vs IBM, SCO v. Novell, Red Hat vs SCO, etc. Many of these lawsuits are still pending in court and their conclusions will have dramatic implications on the use of Linux. As these Linux and Unix distros fight amonst each other, they are throwing millions of dollars in littigation expenses, that could be used for hiring better talent and innovating. Just looking at Ubuntu 7.4, it felt a lot like Windows 2000 and did not reflect any of the polish or mainstream file support of a Windows or Apple desktop environment. I believe the littigation battles prevent Linux distros from gaining any creative ground against Microsoft or Apple. While some distros may not be currently affected by the court battles, the fallout of those will effect every Linux distro.
Second, these companies cannot really afford to truely innovate in the way that Microsoft and Apple can. Why? Because what little in terms of coders and resouces these companies put into Linux, Microsoft and Apple easily put more. Microsoft and Apple recruit from the top computing schools here in the U.S. and abroad. They are grabbing the fresh talents while Linux talent pool must be diminished by this effort. They have millions and billions to throw at new recruits, while most Linux distros are for free. While they do make money in terms of service contracts and more professional versions of Linux, that money isn't Windows XP or Vista money. Its not Apple iPod or Macbook Air money . Its not MS Office nor is it OS-X money. Innovation requires a serious cash pool to take an idea off the drawing boards and into production. This is where Linux will fall very short of the bar, because as talented as the guys behind Linux are, the geniuses Microsoft and Apple recruit are so much further ahead of the curve. Do you think an engineer with a PH.D is tinkering around with Linux? No, he has more important things to do. Perhaps on his spare time, but if your a professiona doing a job, you want the OS that has mainstream support and a well establish ecosystem. He's most likely using an XP, OS-X, or Vista machine and leave the decompiling to the enthusiasts or the companies doing Linux.
Finally, while these applications are nice, there's no way a free Linux app will replace something like Photoshop, iTunes, MS Office, etc. As with all major PC applications suites, its that collection of talent and new talent building on top of that which makes it very special. Not only interms of its past successes and performance, but the new options and talents recruited continue to push it beyond the scope of those Linux. Now many will point to OpenOffice.org as a counter to my argument. However, I will point out that the rampant code bloat and performance issues vs MS Office 07 actually makes my point very clear. OpenOffice.org takes more 2 times as long as MS Office to load itself and a blank page. While some of this has improved, its tied directly to Java which is not an open source. There's something about the collection of talent and the huge testing field of the MS and Apple base that keeps them both way ahead of Linux distros and its applications makers.
I generally am not opposed to open source or free apps. However, I feel along with many Windows users that a certain level of accountability is had with major corporations and proprietary systems that is lacking under open source. I can generally hold Microsoft more accountable and get support from them much easier than I can a Linux distro. I understand both have communities and such, but generally speaking its much easier to find Microsoft Certified Professionals. Linux has not made the infrastructure investment in certified technicans to challenge the Microsoft environment. The same could be said about Apple certified professionals vs Linux. They simply aren't there because Linus and Richard have a hands off approach to Linux. Without someone to be the general, every Linux distro is trying to be a chief and nobody is willing to be a brave.
Second, these companies cannot really afford to truely innovate in the way that Microsoft and Apple can. Why? Because what little in terms of coders and resouces these companies put into Linux, Microsoft and Apple easily put more. Microsoft and Apple recruit from the top computing schools here in the U.S. and abroad. They are grabbing the fresh talents while Linux talent pool must be diminished by this effort. They have millions and billions to throw at new recruits, while most Linux distros are for free. While they do make money in terms of service contracts and more professional versions of Linux, that money isn't Windows XP or Vista money. Its not Apple iPod or Macbook Air money . Its not MS Office nor is it OS-X money. Innovation requires a serious cash pool to take an idea off the drawing boards and into production. This is where Linux will fall very short of the bar, because as talented as the guys behind Linux are, the geniuses Microsoft and Apple recruit are so much further ahead of the curve. Do you think an engineer with a PH.D is tinkering around with Linux? No, he has more important things to do. Perhaps on his spare time, but if your a professiona doing a job, you want the OS that has mainstream support and a well establish ecosystem. He's most likely using an XP, OS-X, or Vista machine and leave the decompiling to the enthusiasts or the companies doing Linux.
Finally, while these applications are nice, there's no way a free Linux app will replace something like Photoshop, iTunes, MS Office, etc. As with all major PC applications suites, its that collection of talent and new talent building on top of that which makes it very special. Not only interms of its past successes and performance, but the new options and talents recruited continue to push it beyond the scope of those Linux. Now many will point to OpenOffice.org as a counter to my argument. However, I will point out that the rampant code bloat and performance issues vs MS Office 07 actually makes my point very clear. OpenOffice.org takes more 2 times as long as MS Office to load itself and a blank page. While some of this has improved, its tied directly to Java which is not an open source. There's something about the collection of talent and the huge testing field of the MS and Apple base that keeps them both way ahead of Linux distros and its applications makers.
I generally am not opposed to open source or free apps. However, I feel along with many Windows users that a certain level of accountability is had with major corporations and proprietary systems that is lacking under open source. I can generally hold Microsoft more accountable and get support from them much easier than I can a Linux distro. I understand both have communities and such, but generally speaking its much easier to find Microsoft Certified Professionals. Linux has not made the infrastructure investment in certified technicans to challenge the Microsoft environment. The same could be said about Apple certified professionals vs Linux. They simply aren't there because Linus and Richard have a hands off approach to Linux. Without someone to be the general, every Linux distro is trying to be a chief and nobody is willing to be a brave.
#43
ZiggyFish
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:34 PM
technicaljedi721: Every thing you just said is FUD. I could prove it but, I've got better things to do.
#44
mphenterprises
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:47 PM
Hi Ziggy. It does absolutely no good to make a statement like that and not back it up. Doing so is basically an antagonistic statement with no merit. If you have some information that counters what TechnicalJedi stated, please post and share.
#46
Evildave
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:40 PM
What do you mean? Microsoft refuses to put anything but the cheapest rent-a-coders into their work they can possibly get away with, and it frankly shows.
Open source means anyone that cares and wants to support a project can sit down and work on it. The powers that be CAN pay to have features added, but they can also review and accept donated changes. Chances are good that if something is broken or just annoying, someone will be annoyed enough to check it out of CVS/SVN and try to fix it. He/She needed the change most of all, and once it's checked in and accepted, everybody else gets it, too.
What open source grants above all is a proprietary feeling that I have some control, some ownership.
It doesn't take many highly paid and competent programmers to monitor and control even a very large open source project. You don't have to pay anybody, and in some cases OTHERS will pay somebody to do the work that they need.
With a pay product like a Microsoft OS, you're just OWNED. Better 'upgrade' to the latest version, because you won't be able to open the new proprietary file format we scrambled just for this reason. PAY us MONEY or we'll stop your updates. If there are bugs and security holes, you just WAIT for us to to get around to feeling they're important and fixing them someday, or PAY US FOR AN UPGRADE. Of course, when you pay for an upgrade to fix problems, you usually discover that the problems are still there, along with lots of NEW ONES.
For a non-Microsoft example, VMware is chock full of absolute show-stoppers. They never bother to fix ANYTHING. The clock runs at variable rates, and has ALWAYS run at variable rates and usually will run ahead over an hour a day. Animation and game code developed inside one of their virtual machines will run faster than a normal machine, so everything will move in slow motion for everyone else. With certain Vista installations, VMware just crashes with a consistent error message unless you do a complete re-install of Vista, or meticulously change hundreds of permissions in the registry. This has been broken for over a year, and VMware and Microsoft just point at each other. Another useless license I'll never 'upgrade'. Virtualbox (free, also open source) works just fine.
Yes, SUN bought VirtualBox. They bought MySQL. They have taken ownership of all kinds of important open source projects. There's obviously tons of money to be made with open source software support. You don't have to twist people's arms and force them to pay you in order to make money. Of course, you don't NEED to pay for open source support. If you can operate a web search engine, the questions you want answered have almost always been asked before.
I'd rather be free to contribute (or not) than be FORCED to pay a company like Microsoft just because I bought a new computer.
I got off the Microsoft ride. It makes me SICK.
Open source means anyone that cares and wants to support a project can sit down and work on it. The powers that be CAN pay to have features added, but they can also review and accept donated changes. Chances are good that if something is broken or just annoying, someone will be annoyed enough to check it out of CVS/SVN and try to fix it. He/She needed the change most of all, and once it's checked in and accepted, everybody else gets it, too.
What open source grants above all is a proprietary feeling that I have some control, some ownership.
It doesn't take many highly paid and competent programmers to monitor and control even a very large open source project. You don't have to pay anybody, and in some cases OTHERS will pay somebody to do the work that they need.
With a pay product like a Microsoft OS, you're just OWNED. Better 'upgrade' to the latest version, because you won't be able to open the new proprietary file format we scrambled just for this reason. PAY us MONEY or we'll stop your updates. If there are bugs and security holes, you just WAIT for us to to get around to feeling they're important and fixing them someday, or PAY US FOR AN UPGRADE. Of course, when you pay for an upgrade to fix problems, you usually discover that the problems are still there, along with lots of NEW ONES.
For a non-Microsoft example, VMware is chock full of absolute show-stoppers. They never bother to fix ANYTHING. The clock runs at variable rates, and has ALWAYS run at variable rates and usually will run ahead over an hour a day. Animation and game code developed inside one of their virtual machines will run faster than a normal machine, so everything will move in slow motion for everyone else. With certain Vista installations, VMware just crashes with a consistent error message unless you do a complete re-install of Vista, or meticulously change hundreds of permissions in the registry. This has been broken for over a year, and VMware and Microsoft just point at each other. Another useless license I'll never 'upgrade'. Virtualbox (free, also open source) works just fine.
Yes, SUN bought VirtualBox. They bought MySQL. They have taken ownership of all kinds of important open source projects. There's obviously tons of money to be made with open source software support. You don't have to twist people's arms and force them to pay you in order to make money. Of course, you don't NEED to pay for open source support. If you can operate a web search engine, the questions you want answered have almost always been asked before.
I'd rather be free to contribute (or not) than be FORCED to pay a company like Microsoft just because I bought a new computer.
I got off the Microsoft ride. It makes me SICK.
#47
ThomasWagner
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 05:17 PM
Have you looked at a program called "Gramps" for tracking geneology in Linux. Most Linux distros have that.
#48
JimH443
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:09 PM
Thank you for the link, ZiggyFish. It appears very useful and I've Bookmarked the site. What I was hoping for was that someone who is familiar with XNews could recommend a program that is very similar to it.
The thing I like most about XNews is... it's very keyboard oriented. You could use it WITHOUT a mouse. In fact, I've programmed my Logitech G-15 keyboard with many XNews related macros. I HATE mouse driven menus!! I swear it takes longer to drop down menus and submenus than it does to press a simple key combination. Xnews even has the ability to define key combinations for the drop down menus it does have.
Another thing I like about Xnews is that only ONE window is visible at a time. If I'm looking at the list of subscribed newsgroups, then the ONLY thing I see is a list of newsgroups. If I'm looking at message headers (subject, author, date, etc), then all I see are message headers. If I'm reading an article, then all I see is that one article. Every other Windows based newsreader I've used tries to cram all of this onto the screen at the same time. What I'm concerned about is that newsreaders on any GUI (regardless of hardware or OS) will have the same properties.
The thing I like most about XNews is... it's very keyboard oriented. You could use it WITHOUT a mouse. In fact, I've programmed my Logitech G-15 keyboard with many XNews related macros. I HATE mouse driven menus!! I swear it takes longer to drop down menus and submenus than it does to press a simple key combination. Xnews even has the ability to define key combinations for the drop down menus it does have.
Another thing I like about Xnews is that only ONE window is visible at a time. If I'm looking at the list of subscribed newsgroups, then the ONLY thing I see is a list of newsgroups. If I'm looking at message headers (subject, author, date, etc), then all I see are message headers. If I'm reading an article, then all I see is that one article. Every other Windows based newsreader I've used tries to cram all of this onto the screen at the same time. What I'm concerned about is that newsreaders on any GUI (regardless of hardware or OS) will have the same properties.
#49
janekMZ
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:15 PM
Glnbnz never say never, Linux may not
surpass Windows tomorrow but who knows what might happen years from
now, and yes Linux has been around for more than 15 years but the
only reason it had hard time catching on is because Windows was
already mainstream and all PCs were sold with Windows preloaded. Now
let's reverse the roles, if Linux was mainstream in the 1990's and
preloaded on new PCs and most software written for Linux, and then
Windows came to market do you think Windows would become mainstream
in 15 years? Colleges may not offer many courses in Linux, but
that's not the point of a college course. The point is that they
offer classes for a particular application (Word, Excel, PowerPoint,
Photoshop, ect.) and for now that software is loaded on Windows
machines. But that might change in the future. My college already
has computer labs loaded with Linux, as well as Windows PCs. A
24-hour computer lab has 1 Apple, about 5 Linux PCs, and about 7
Windows PCs; so I think Linux is gaining ground. (to be fair, the
college does have a computer lab with Apples). In addition, my
college has two wireless networks for students to connect to and one
of them is Linux based. You say that you don't want an OS that is
tweaked by people in garages, well you are forgetting that Windows
was created in an garage when Bill was back in college. Fedora,
Ubuntu, openSuSe are well established companies with professional
programmers working on Linux, and any code built in a garage is
tested by the Linux community before being included in a
distribution.
Many say that switching to Linux from
Windows is hard, well, it might be it's a different OS. I'm sure if
someone who has used Linux for 15 years and has never seen a Windows
PC, will also hate switching to Windows cause everything is
different.
In addition, having Linux on the market
creates a competition for Microsoft. They will have to either create
better version of Windows, or Linux will become mainstream. I agree,
if Firefox had not been created we would still be stuck with IE6.
Again, to be fair, I do use XP and
Vista, but mostly I use Linux.
surpass Windows tomorrow but who knows what might happen years from
now, and yes Linux has been around for more than 15 years but the
only reason it had hard time catching on is because Windows was
already mainstream and all PCs were sold with Windows preloaded. Now
let's reverse the roles, if Linux was mainstream in the 1990's and
preloaded on new PCs and most software written for Linux, and then
Windows came to market do you think Windows would become mainstream
in 15 years? Colleges may not offer many courses in Linux, but
that's not the point of a college course. The point is that they
offer classes for a particular application (Word, Excel, PowerPoint,
Photoshop, ect.) and for now that software is loaded on Windows
machines. But that might change in the future. My college already
has computer labs loaded with Linux, as well as Windows PCs. A
24-hour computer lab has 1 Apple, about 5 Linux PCs, and about 7
Windows PCs; so I think Linux is gaining ground. (to be fair, the
college does have a computer lab with Apples). In addition, my
college has two wireless networks for students to connect to and one
of them is Linux based. You say that you don't want an OS that is
tweaked by people in garages, well you are forgetting that Windows
was created in an garage when Bill was back in college. Fedora,
Ubuntu, openSuSe are well established companies with professional
programmers working on Linux, and any code built in a garage is
tested by the Linux community before being included in a
distribution.
Many say that switching to Linux from
Windows is hard, well, it might be it's a different OS. I'm sure if
someone who has used Linux for 15 years and has never seen a Windows
PC, will also hate switching to Windows cause everything is
different.
In addition, having Linux on the market
creates a competition for Microsoft. They will have to either create
better version of Windows, or Linux will become mainstream. I agree,
if Firefox had not been created we would still be stuck with IE6.
Again, to be fair, I do use XP and
Vista, but mostly I use Linux.
#50
ZiggyFish
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:45 PM
JimH443 :Well as they say, nothings better then a program that does what you want (well except when that programs is free of course ;)). I just tested XNews under Wine 0.9.59, and it seems to work. To be honest I prefer the multi-window type news readers. Also you mentioned in your OP, that you tryed to get Pan to work but you didn't have the GTK+ libraries. This is more information about installing it on windows
janekMZ :Execellent post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
janekMZ :Execellent post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
#51
Evildave
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:49 PM
Actually, Microsoft had been making BASIC interpreters for the little PCs in the years before 1981, when they PURCHASED DOS from another company outright for $50,000 when Digital Research wouldn't sign an NDA with IBM reps for CP/M, and IBM asked Microsoft to make an OS.
Windows came along much later when Microsoft was fat off its DOS revenue and finally reailsed it needed to play catch up. Apple sued Microsoft for copying their OS, but Microsoft turned around and claimed they stole it from Xerox PARC, just as Apple had. An obvious lie, but what can you do. Microsoft did the same thing a few years later when they were sued for successfully wiping out Netscape using their monopolistic position in the PC marketplace to cram Internet Explorer down everyone's throats, and claimed they'd copied Mosaic, not Netscape.
So by the time Microsoft got around to making a useable 'Windows 3' in 1990, everybody else, Apple, Digital Research, Atari, Commodore, naturally Xerox, had already been actively selling GUI operating systems for several years, and Microsoft finally just copied them. It wasn't even until 1995 before their Windows platform didn't totally suck.
DirectX was an afterthought. It came out later. Developing games under the Win32 SDK's idiosyncratic API was 'interesting' because it was a complete toss-up whether BitBlt from a CreateDibSection or StretchDIBits or SetDIBits would work faster, you couldn't control what graphics mode the user would have the PC running in, and you'd have to do your own software mixing on the audio, and other such fun and games galore.
Windows came along much later when Microsoft was fat off its DOS revenue and finally reailsed it needed to play catch up. Apple sued Microsoft for copying their OS, but Microsoft turned around and claimed they stole it from Xerox PARC, just as Apple had. An obvious lie, but what can you do. Microsoft did the same thing a few years later when they were sued for successfully wiping out Netscape using their monopolistic position in the PC marketplace to cram Internet Explorer down everyone's throats, and claimed they'd copied Mosaic, not Netscape.
So by the time Microsoft got around to making a useable 'Windows 3' in 1990, everybody else, Apple, Digital Research, Atari, Commodore, naturally Xerox, had already been actively selling GUI operating systems for several years, and Microsoft finally just copied them. It wasn't even until 1995 before their Windows platform didn't totally suck.
DirectX was an afterthought. It came out later. Developing games under the Win32 SDK's idiosyncratic API was 'interesting' because it was a complete toss-up whether BitBlt from a CreateDibSection or StretchDIBits or SetDIBits would work faster, you couldn't control what graphics mode the user would have the PC running in, and you'd have to do your own software mixing on the audio, and other such fun and games galore.
#52
sorin7486
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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:27 PM
Oh well... one more Linux vs. Windows match ... :) I'd better get my 2 cents in quick :)...
Here's the thing that some people fail to understand: most linux users don't really care about what OS you are really running. I've been a linux user for some time now and while I do want linux to grow I don't really care at what rate that happens. In some cases it's actually better to go slow. And in any case we're not a religion or anything like that so we're not trying to convert anybody :)...
But on the other hand, we do care what people think about us and about the operating system that we use. That's why we debate these things so much. The Linux community doesn't have the huge sums of money needed for a coordinated marketing campaign like Microsoft.. so you could say we go door to door instead. Some people are better at doing this and others aren't... but that's to be expected and we just try to do our best.
Now a few things are generally problematic in a discussion of this sort.. for example when we say Linux is better, we (are mostly programmers) mean that from the developers point of view... We know it's easier for most people to go with Windows, and that won't change for a while, just because most people use it... But in most cases it's not because Windows is better, it's just because they get more support from everybody (hardware manufacturers, software development companies, game developers).. Then there are dose that think that Linux is not mainstream and that it's developed by a bunch of kids in their spare time and it's nothing but a hack.. Well Linux is a minority, that's true, but it's mainstream because ordinary people get to hear about it. And it's not just a hack made by a bunch of kids either... There are some really hardcore developers in the linux community and they usually get paid to do what they love to do best. Plus it's used in servers, supercomputers and embedded systems all over the world so if it's not a silly hack for them why would it be for the desktop user ?
Now you can argue that linux and open source in general have been slow in adoption rates. It's true it's been slower than what lots of people expected, but it's just normal for a huge market with a big monopoly holder. Things don't change over night you know. But I do assure you that they are changing. I can see it and analysts can see it too. I don't know what's going to happen but using words like never and always is not a good idea. For example I wouldn't of called Linux mainstream just 3 or 4 years ago.. now I do.. I'm rather curious what I'll have to call it 3 or 4 years from now ?
Here's the thing that some people fail to understand: most linux users don't really care about what OS you are really running. I've been a linux user for some time now and while I do want linux to grow I don't really care at what rate that happens. In some cases it's actually better to go slow. And in any case we're not a religion or anything like that so we're not trying to convert anybody :)...
But on the other hand, we do care what people think about us and about the operating system that we use. That's why we debate these things so much. The Linux community doesn't have the huge sums of money needed for a coordinated marketing campaign like Microsoft.. so you could say we go door to door instead. Some people are better at doing this and others aren't... but that's to be expected and we just try to do our best.
Now a few things are generally problematic in a discussion of this sort.. for example when we say Linux is better, we (are mostly programmers) mean that from the developers point of view... We know it's easier for most people to go with Windows, and that won't change for a while, just because most people use it... But in most cases it's not because Windows is better, it's just because they get more support from everybody (hardware manufacturers, software development companies, game developers).. Then there are dose that think that Linux is not mainstream and that it's developed by a bunch of kids in their spare time and it's nothing but a hack.. Well Linux is a minority, that's true, but it's mainstream because ordinary people get to hear about it. And it's not just a hack made by a bunch of kids either... There are some really hardcore developers in the linux community and they usually get paid to do what they love to do best. Plus it's used in servers, supercomputers and embedded systems all over the world so if it's not a silly hack for them why would it be for the desktop user ?
Now you can argue that linux and open source in general have been slow in adoption rates. It's true it's been slower than what lots of people expected, but it's just normal for a huge market with a big monopoly holder. Things don't change over night you know. But I do assure you that they are changing. I can see it and analysts can see it too. I don't know what's going to happen but using words like never and always is not a good idea. For example I wouldn't of called Linux mainstream just 3 or 4 years ago.. now I do.. I'm rather curious what I'll have to call it 3 or 4 years from now ?
#53
JimH443
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 01:18 AM
ZiggyFish: Thank you for the link to GTK+! Concerning my preference for uni-windows... what can I say, I prefer DOS over windows. LOL! Can you imagine how today's computers performance would SCREAM under DOS 6.0?? I knew that Wine existed, and might end up being forced into resorting to it from time to time... but from what I've heard it can be a bear to configure. I'm trying to wrestle only one bear at a time. :)
EvilDave: It wasn't until 1998 that Windows didn't totally suck!
EvilDave: It wasn't until 1998 that Windows didn't totally suck!
#55
janekMZ
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 07:15 AM
Evildave, thanks for the history update
I stand corrected, and your post reminds me of another historical
event.
This is to all those never sayers,
remember when someone (MS, IBM or whoever) said that 640KB of RAM was
more than you'll ever need (ie that you'll NEVER need more than
640KB)? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can run Vista
on 640KB of RAM. Probably neither can you run Linux on as little RAM
as that, but Linux can run to it's full potential in text mode (ie
Servers) and someone out there in the Linux community is probably
tweaking Linux to run on as little RAM as possible to be implemented
in mobile devices.
So if engineers and programmers out
there want to use the word never on daily basis than maybe you guys
should switch your career to history, cause history will NEVER
change. It is us scientists/engineers/programmers that take the word
never and make it theoretically possible, then we try to make it
product possible, and then we introduce new product to the market.
Another point, MS makes Vista a memory
hog so that the users will be forced to buy memory upgrades, and I'm
sure MS has some ownership in the memory market.
I stand corrected, and your post reminds me of another historical
event.
This is to all those never sayers,
remember when someone (MS, IBM or whoever) said that 640KB of RAM was
more than you'll ever need (ie that you'll NEVER need more than
640KB)? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can run Vista
on 640KB of RAM. Probably neither can you run Linux on as little RAM
as that, but Linux can run to it's full potential in text mode (ie
Servers) and someone out there in the Linux community is probably
tweaking Linux to run on as little RAM as possible to be implemented
in mobile devices.
So if engineers and programmers out
there want to use the word never on daily basis than maybe you guys
should switch your career to history, cause history will NEVER
change. It is us scientists/engineers/programmers that take the word
never and make it theoretically possible, then we try to make it
product possible, and then we introduce new product to the market.
Another point, MS makes Vista a memory
hog so that the users will be forced to buy memory upgrades, and I'm
sure MS has some ownership in the memory market.
#56
wolfspider
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 08:55 AM
I think you have over thought this
whole thing. Linux is an open source OS, So are the apps. That is you
have the right to rewrite the code to your needs without fear... Open
source is coming into its own and yes I do agree money talks and
bullS%$#t walks I do not think Linux is NOT Bull!!! Not in the
least...
By the way, the servers in use to
develop MS Vista are all run on Linux. Yes check it out its true...
Even MS know a stable OS when they see one.
One more question. Have you ever used the GIMP?
whole thing. Linux is an open source OS, So are the apps. That is you
have the right to rewrite the code to your needs without fear... Open
source is coming into its own and yes I do agree money talks and
bullS%$#t walks I do not think Linux is NOT Bull!!! Not in the
least...
By the way, the servers in use to
develop MS Vista are all run on Linux. Yes check it out its true...
Even MS know a stable OS when they see one.
One more question. Have you ever used the GIMP?
#57
Evildave
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 09:30 AM
wolfspider said:
...
Quote
bullS%$#t walks I do not think Linux is NOT Bull!!! Not in the
least...
least...
The computer world is full of pedants... I know what you meant, but now I can't help myself.
bq. 'I do --not-- think Linux is --NOT-- Bull!!!'
bq. 'I do think Linux is Bull!!!'
:)
I've used the GIMP, even abused the GIMP, and I like the GIMP. I also like ImageMagick, and have used its libraries in tools. The GIMP is a decent pixel-pusher with adequate photo editing tools. Plenty good enough for prime time, and hundreds of dollars cheaper than Photoshop. The last Windows version of the GIMP I used was years ago, and it was fairly hopeless, like many ports to Microsoft's non-standard, ever-mutating Win32 mess. That version of 'Gimp' worked a lot more like the Gimp in 'Pulp Fiction'.
#59
technicaljedi721
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 04:51 PM
While most of what you said is correct, the bit about Apple stealing PARC wasn't the only reason why Microsoft won its litigation suit against Apple. The contract that was signed between Apple and Microsoft, basically said Microsoft can legally copy anything Apple can come up with. That includes the the GUI and all the application suites that Apple did legally obtain from PARC. It was John Sculley who signed that deal and he's the one who made the historic blunder that cost Apple.
As for what Ziggyfish and others have said, I know family members, friends, and I have worked in the IT industry. I remember Microsoft recruiters at my High School and University actively recruiting people for IT careers and pathways to Microsoft. I've talked with their personnel here in Dallas and I know how they do their jobs. If anyone thinks they are recruiting the lowest skilled coders, then they really need a reality check. The difference here is that Vista is supporting both consumer and business applications with security being the emphasis. Its easy to write code for an application, its much harder when your adding layer upon layers of security. Also we're dealing with a relatively new code base that was adapted from server code to run legacy applications. Again, not easy when you have factor in the security layers that have to be included. Not only do I know this, I talk a lot with computer science and IT majors to further my knowledge. Now if people wish to believe I'm wrong, then thats their belief from their point of view. As for me, I'm just constantly learning and trying to improve.
Peace.
As for what Ziggyfish and others have said, I know family members, friends, and I have worked in the IT industry. I remember Microsoft recruiters at my High School and University actively recruiting people for IT careers and pathways to Microsoft. I've talked with their personnel here in Dallas and I know how they do their jobs. If anyone thinks they are recruiting the lowest skilled coders, then they really need a reality check. The difference here is that Vista is supporting both consumer and business applications with security being the emphasis. Its easy to write code for an application, its much harder when your adding layer upon layers of security. Also we're dealing with a relatively new code base that was adapted from server code to run legacy applications. Again, not easy when you have factor in the security layers that have to be included. Not only do I know this, I talk a lot with computer science and IT majors to further my knowledge. Now if people wish to believe I'm wrong, then thats their belief from their point of view. As for me, I'm just constantly learning and trying to improve.
Peace.
#60
Evildave
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Posted 18 April 2008 - 09:01 PM
Audacity instead of Adobe Soundbooth CS3.
Loads in under one second and does everything that I used Soundbooth to do. I loaded the file, made the change (all I wanted to do was crop some dead time off the ends), saved it and was done before Adobe Soundbooth even finished loading. What an absolute inexcusable PIG. To think Cool Edit Pro died to become this... THING.
Microsoft has an insatiable hunger for contract workers. Bill Gates HIMSELF went before congress to beg for more hiring visas. Yeah, he wants home grown kids above all. Yeah, Microsoft is all about the community. As long as it's an international community that includes cheap foreign labor.
http://www.washingto...5042702241.html
I have been to the Microsoft campuses. I have seen with my own eyes. I even interviewed. I was curious. I did not want to stay. What I saw were pretty uniformly miserable people. It was hard to even get the receptionists to smile. Maybe it was just from living near Bellevue Washington. Lots of miserable people OUTSIDE the place, too.
Loads in under one second and does everything that I used Soundbooth to do. I loaded the file, made the change (all I wanted to do was crop some dead time off the ends), saved it and was done before Adobe Soundbooth even finished loading. What an absolute inexcusable PIG. To think Cool Edit Pro died to become this... THING.
Microsoft has an insatiable hunger for contract workers. Bill Gates HIMSELF went before congress to beg for more hiring visas. Yeah, he wants home grown kids above all. Yeah, Microsoft is all about the community. As long as it's an international community that includes cheap foreign labor.
http://www.washingto...5042702241.html
I have been to the Microsoft campuses. I have seen with my own eyes. I even interviewed. I was curious. I did not want to stay. What I saw were pretty uniformly miserable people. It was hard to even get the receptionists to smile. Maybe it was just from living near Bellevue Washington. Lots of miserable people OUTSIDE the place, too.
