[PCWorld]

Post your comments for New Survey: Vista Cleans Mac OSX's Clock here

[butlerwm]

One thing the survey doesn't mention is that every Intel Mac running Windows as a second OS, while counting as a plus for Vista and/or XP, is also a hardware sale for Apple. As well, to try and compare Mac OSX to Vista saturation is, at best, a ridiculous exercise. Windows enjoys a market position that accounts for tens (if not hundreds) of millions of units. That Vista has shown greater growth since its release than Leopard is akin to comparing the number of grains of sand on the beach to people in the world. What does matter is that Apple has experienced greater hardware growth since it began using Intel processors than at any time in the recent past. As the number four computer hardware vendor in the US, they are in a position to increase their market share beyond anything they've seen since the inception of the Windows 3.0 in 1990.

[RNR19952]

I would like to see the numbers of SATISFIED Vista users vs. Mac users?
And the number of downgrades from Vista to XP
Almost all corporate sales for Vista are actually XP installs
Microsoft still owns the desktop, that is not in doubt.
What is doubtful is that the majority of people with Vista PC's like them, and how many people switched to Mac or a Linux flavor as a result of Vista.

[WavSlave]

One of those percentages is right but the other is wrong.

Going from 6.03 to 7.94 is indeed an increase of 32%. However, going
from 4.54 to 16.14 is an increase of 255% (actually slightly closer to
256%), not 355%. Yes, 16.14 is 3.555 times 4.54 but that's not the
same as a 355% increase.

That's a frustratingly common mistake and a professional writer should
know better.

(Sorry about those bad line breaks.)

[smax013]

butlerwm said:

One thing the survey doesn't mention is that every Intel Mac running Windows as a second OS, while counting as a plus for Vista and/or XP, is also a hardware sale for Apple. As well, to try and compare Mac OSX to Vista saturation is, at best, a ridiculous exercise. Windows enjoys a market position that accounts for tens (if not hundreds) of millions of units. That Vista has shown greater growth since its release than Leopard is akin to comparing the number of grains of sand on the beach to people in the world. What does matter is that Apple has experienced greater hardware growth since it began using Intel processors than at any time in the recent past. As the number four computer hardware vendor in the US, they are in a position to increase their market share beyond anything they've seen since the inception of the Windows 3.0 in 1990.

That is the joy spin. You can selectively pick stats to make your case.



I would agrue that a more appropriate comparison between percentage INCREASE of market share of Vista is more appropriate to compare to the percentage INCREASE of market share of Leopard. This would measure how much Vista (percentagewise) has made in roads into the Windows portion of the OS market share compared to how much Leopard (percentagewise) has made in roads into the Mac OS portion of the market share. With that type of a comparison, then I am guessing that it will be much more of real comparison as BOTH Leopard and Vista will be going from ZERO market share to some number.



Or the other comparison is to look at increases (or decreases) in market share of Windows as a whole vs. the Mac OS as a whole. If you look at comparison, then you would "see" Apple doing well and Microsoft losing ground.



Of course, the intent of the article is that to point out that Microsoft is still the dominate player when it comes to the OS market. I would just argue that that stats used are not really appropriate. All you really need to point out is that Microsoft still has about 90% of the OS market with various version of Windows and the Mac OS only has about 7%. You could also compare the number of Vista licenses sold to number of Leopard licenses sold...but that is still likely comparing Apples to oranges (pun intended)...while I am sure that Microsoft is selling TONS more licenses of their current OS, the reality is that Apple is NOT a OS/software company per se, but rather a hardware company. So, if the idea is to compare how well Apple is doing compared to Microsoft, then that is NOT the appropriate comparison. It is only appropriate if you want to compare how well Apple is doing in OS market share to Microsoft, which is a no brainer...Microsoft is kicking Apple's rear in absolute terms...but Apple is gaining ground while Microsoft is losing ground. It is like watching a NASCAR race...yes, the leader might be several laps ahead, but the second place car is closing ground (whether or not the second place car can really catch the leader is a WHOLE other question).

[lifelonglego]

I have a windows vista PC and I have enjoyed great success. Everytime I attach a device vista automatically recognises it and installs the driver software with little interruption. I have a 2 year old pc and I run vista and aero just fine with my geforce 6150 LE which is integrated. I hae encountered only a few programs that don't work on vista with complete support. With the internet I have access to millions of applications. With IE I browse safely withphishing protection and I know that remote code can not be automatically executed without my permission. PCWorld even stated that UAC was the only application to block 100% of rootkits. Linux and Mac don't have real security. Microsoft is clearly ahead of mac. Memory address randomization was only added to mac recently. It has been in windows since windows 200 or earlier. Vista's setup process was much more user friendly and than any linux distro I have used.I took 30 minutes to install and get set up. Plus aero has live previews to show you whats happening in an app without opening it. Sometimes when I am using someone's xp pc, I find my mouse hovering over an app waiting for it to pop up with a preview, and nothing happens. And with microsoft office 2007, a windows exclusive that takes advantage of windows vista features, I can create powerful documents for my school with unparralleled efficiency.

[GMan]

To Lifelonglego: It's nice to see an intelligent comment! I'm running Vista Ultimate throughout my home, and love it!

You correctly observe the many security benefits available in Vista. Here Apple is sorely, and sadly, lacking. What's more frightening is that the vast majority of Apple users are completely non-technical (i.e., unable to use a PC) and don't appreciate the need for security. Apple is a zero-day attack waiting to happen!

A funny story: I was sitting next to a guy at dinner and we started talking about PCs. He reflexively started bashing Vista. I calmly observed that I had Vista running on a variety of PCs, the newest of which is 2+ years old. I went on to add that the Vista experience was fantastic and problem-free. My new "friend" started sputtering about Linux...how it doesn't need to be secured (Wrong!!) and grew madder by the moment as I countered every one of his uninformed notions by correctly observing "Vista does that..." The poor guy was so mad, he got up and left.

Thanks for a great post!

G-Man

[rgeiken]

I have used windows based operating systems for years, and all my software that I currently use and this is substantial would not be usable with OSX. Also, I am very familiar with the way that Windows in all it's configurations works. All my data is in a Windows based format, so it would seem to be a big hurdle to move to an entirely different Operating System like Apple's or Linux, or something else. I find it hard to believe that someone would tell someone to move from Windows to a Mac as if it is as easy as changing the filter in your air conditioner!!!! Any Legacy Windows data would probably be hard to convert to one of these other systems. Probably one of the main reasons that Windows and other MS products have proven so {font:serif}{size:100%}successful{size}{font} is that you can procure your {font:serif}{size:100%}hardware{size}{font} anywhere you want to as long as it meets the PC computer standards. I suspect that Windows will continue it's domination long after I am gone. I currently have a quad processor and 4 gig of ram with my copy of Vista. I am noting that many new computers are coming with quad processors and 6 to 8 gig of ram with Vista 64 bit. I'm not sure if Apple has anything to respond to that or not. As far as my new desktop that I mention above, it is by far the best computer that I have ever owned, and has very few problems which usually are quickly fixed.

[Dwayne1200]

OK, I have not had an apple since I was a teenager in the 80's using the old applesoft basic. I have had a Windows based computer since the early 90's.

I just read these two reviews talking about how great Vista is and couldn't help to wonder if they work for MS... I have a Compaq laptop right now which came with Vista Home Premium. I basically use it for nothing but word processing, email and basic web surfing.

It crashes all the time unless I am surfing on firefox. I was a die hard fan of MS before this OS.

To Vista standards my laptop is bare minimium at 2GBs RAM, a dual core AMD X2 TK-53 processor with an NVIDIA GeForce Go 6100 integrated graphics.

These features you talk about being so great on Vista just made what would be a great system on XP, not good enough on Vista for features I honestly don't need.

Don't try make windows seem so secure, we all know the truth about that, and no I am not denying that linux and apple need security but honestly I like using my own security and common sense. The over built but still lacking security of Vista in test after test has proven to be little to no better than XP and just makes needing a more expensive over built computer a requirement now just so my son and I can get online to say hi to his mom in the army from time to time where ever she is based at any given time.

I know things progress and programs get more and more demanding but I have yet to see any program that does anything more special on Vista that I need or truly want it than what it could have already did on XP.

Bottom line is Vista goes all the way to Z to get from A to B.

As far as this story I'm guessing by these number linux has had a .54% increase in the OS market.

Sorry security should be an add-on to an OS not built in because not everyone needs security. A closed network in some offices does not need an OS that has a 10-15 GB footprint because of security software in the OS when it has no security threats.

That is my argument against Vista and was my argument defending previous versions of windows before Vista existed.

My next computer will be a linux computer. As far as switching data formats actually a lot of opensource programs for linus also have version on windows and recognize on either OS the windows data formats and can access them and run them.

Yes there is a learning curve on learning the new interface of a different OS and its software, but a lot of the software I would pay for with Windows I can get for free with Linux.

A Vista computer with 16 GB of RAM runs like a Linux computer with 1-2 GBs of RAM, just imagine how my next desktop will run on Linux with a 2.6 Quad core, a crossfire graphic setup and 8GBs of 1066 RAM.

Hardware like that was built to dazzle not run windows. MS needs to realize that an OS is the foundation for a system and not the other way around...

Vista has just become MS Tower of Babel. Microsoft needs to realize the PC or Mac are God not windows...

[Signa902]

The choice of titles for this article based upon the facts in the article are "Windows' Netshare -3.4% YOY" or "Vista Netshare Up 255%; While Mac Leopard Netshare Infinitely Higher YOY!". There is no way to accurately compare Mac vs. Windows numbers where it is positive for Microsoft. This article compares all Mac OS versions to only the latest Windows versions increased usage during the past year. Since the Leopard version of Mac OS launched last October, Leopard's netusage was 0 a year ago; making its growth a DIV 0 calculation.

[smax013]

rgeiken said:

I currently have a quad processor and 4 gig of ram with my copy of Vista. I am noting that many new computers are coming with quad processors and 6 to 8 gig of ram with Vista 64 bit. I'm not sure if Apple has anything to respond to that or not. As far as my new desktop that I mention above, it is by far the best computer that I have ever owned, and has very few problems which usually are quickly fixed.

You can configure a Mac Pro with two Core 2 Quads and up to 32 GB of memory.

[butlerwm]

> {quote:title=rgeiken wrote: I am noting that many new computers are coming with quad processors and 6 to 8 gig of ram with Vista 64 bit

}{quote}{quote:title=smax013 wrote: }{quote}You can configure a Mac Pro with two Core 2 Quads and up to 32 GB of memory.
[/quote]
Yup... Apple beat Microsoft to desktop 64 bit processing with 64 bit G5 PowerPC processor and OS X Tiger. Since April 2005, Tiger is the only OS needed for the Mac platform regardless of whether it has a 32bit or 64bit platform. With 32bit CPUs it runs as a 32bit OS. With 64bit CPUs it runs as a 64bit OS. Even before Tiger, OS X (on 64 bit PPC processors) recognized more than 4 GB of system RAM. Individual applications were, however, still restricted to the 32 bit memery space.
64 bit processors are becoming the norm. However, unlike rgeiken implies, 64 bit Vista is still in the extreme minority among operating systems. And while Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad CPUs are being pushed by Intel, many, many thousands of Core Duo (32bit), dual-core Pentiums (32bit) and newer dual-core Celerons (also 32 bit) processors being sold. For those 32bit CPUs people still require 32bit Vista. As a matter of economics (many millions more copies of 32bit Windows than 64bit Windows), 32bit drivers are still the norm. 64bit drivers, while becoming more available in the Windows world, are not so much the norm.
The same holds true for applications on the Windows side that take advantage of 64bit memory space or the wider data path. As well, most mainstream motherboards (Dell, HP, Acer, Gateway, and eMachine) won't handle more than 4 GB of RAM reguardless of what the OS or CPU can use. Since HP, Dell and Acer (Acer owns Gateway and eMachine) represent the top three PC makers in the US, what they offer has a great bearing on what's available in the market.
And least we forget: The fastest Vista laptop in 2007 was the MacBook Pro. But then that's about hardware platforms and (oh, my!) Microsoft doesn't make computers (and no, the X-Box doesn't count). Also, it remains that while Windows owns 90% of the OS market. While that's the lion's share, it's down from the same time last year. No matter how you slice it, that's still a smaller (or less huge) piece of the pie for the lion.
I haven't consumed too much Apple Kool-Aid. I'm a Windows user on four of the five computers in our household (one with Vista, the others with XP). I'm also an IT tech for a school district with something on the order of 1500 PCs and one (1) Mac. But I'm realistic enough to understand Vista is a dog-and-pony show trying to pass itself off as an OS update.

[GMan]

Let's face it: The resurgence of Vista shows that the cream always rises to the top.

Linux, an obscure quirky OS will settle in to the hobbyists' realm.

Mac's are for those who can't use a PC, hand the reins to a corporation and submit to lock-in with a closed architecture. Seems a high price to pay.

Not me man!

In summary, I quote from another post: "MOST problems with Vista are actually between the keyboard and the chair."

[mcconnell]

Sorry, Mac looses here. See, Dell's Precision T7400 can have 2 xeon 3.16 ghz processors, 64-128 GB RAM!!!! Beat that Apple.

I have Vista on every computer in my home and love it. No issues on the network, sotware is compatible, and all drivers install without any problems or lagging. The operating system can support so much with alot of ease. Vista all the way!!

Darren

[EMMANUEL]

HEY,ENOUGH OF THESE VISTA BASHING
I HAVE PC WITH (LINUX) UBUNTU. ANOTHER WITH (MAC)TIGER AND ALSO WINDOWS (VISTA).
I AND I REALISED THAT VISTA SUPPORT MORE DRIVERS,SOFTWARE WITH GOOD SECURITY THAN OTHER OS.LINUX IS WORST IT DOES NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE MY VERISON AIRCARD AND ITS GNOME GRAPHIX IS TOO BAD.

[mphenterprises]

Okay, before this turns into a pro versus con Linux discussion, please keep all responses in line with the article and the Discussion title. If you would like to discuss Linux, please click here to access the Linux Community.

[Signa902]

Since January, Apple has had a Dual-Quad 3.2 GHz Xeon desktop with 8 RAM slots that currently supports 32 GB and more as larger RAM modules as they become available.

[Idashur]

EMMANUEL said:

HEY,ENOUGH OF THESE VISTA BASHING
I HAVE PC WITH (LINUX) UBUNTU. ANOTHER WITH (MAC)TIGER AND ALSO WINDOWS (VISTA).
I AND I REALISED THAT VISTA SUPPORT MORE DRIVERS,SOFTWARE WITH GOOD SECURITY THAN OTHER OS.LINUX IS WORST IT DOES NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE MY VERISON AIRCARD AND ITS GNOME GRAPHIX IS TOO BAD.

LOL...It's true that Ubuntu doesn't recognize really anything, and that it has bad Gnome Graphics. However, I used a Vista Laptop, and when I was surfing the web and I clicked a webpage link, it "Restore Down"ed my current IE7 window. Vista's got glitches and problems, but slowly, with the new SP1, they will be fixed. But I'd still like to downgrade to XP, since about 2 million people use it around the world, and everyone's familiar with it. B-)

[butlerwm]

Signa902 said:

Since January, Apple has had a Dual-Quad 3.2 GHz Xeon desktop with 8 RAM slots that currently supports 32 GB and more as larger RAM modules as they become available.

I won't go tit-for-tat comparing Apple to PC hardware. After all, ever since Apple adapted Intel processors, the fuctional differences between the two boils down to ROMs, BIOS, and chip sets. Beyond the details needed to support their respective operating systems, the hardware options for them are pretty much the same.
However (and of course their has to be a "however"), it remains that Apple specific hardware choices tends to be more tightly bound to their intended operating system and supported software. Truth be told, the Dell Precision T7400, referenced by mcconnell in his post, comes standard with the same 32 GB "native" memory capacity as the MacPro. The MacPro also handles the same dual, quad-core Xeon processors. Only when a riser board is added, does the Dell become expandable out to 128 GB. The MacPro has a few more of this (PCIe x16 slots) and the Dell a few more of that (8 USB ports and an externally accessible 3.5 inch bay for either floppy drive or card reader).
So, the bottom line remains that the MacPro and Dell are pretty much on par with one another. Still with the Mac I can run Mac OS, Linux, and Windows in a triple-boot system. If I feel the need to punish myself with Vista, I run it. If I want a refined OS with standard functionality and software, I run OS X. If I want Linux for its smaller foot print and subsequent speed gains, I run it.

[raife1]

I cant help but notice (and, somewhat, resent) the continued FUD... such as the repeated claim that those that point-out the ongoing (and very real) problems with "Vista"... either dont use it, or... are simply Mac, and/or Linux, "fanboys".

Sorry, but we are a PC support company (...we have been since DOS-days. And, we dont even use Macs). Furthermore, we were, rather-eager, beta-testers for Vista, (since the original beta). And, we DO both use, and support, all versions of Windows (client, and server... yes, including Vista). But, frankly, the simple fact is that Vista really is still, very much, a virtual, "...train-wreck" within the marketplace (nobody, especially business-customers, seems to actually want this product). And, the alleged "advantages" of Vista (better performance, security, and now, as a future upgrade-path to Microsofts next OS)... are, pretty much, being shown to be little more than marketing smoke-and-mirrors (sorry, but Id say that the realities, and actual testing, tend to directly contradict those Microsoft-assertions).

Frankly, Microsoft is clearly becoming more, and more, desperate. In fact, that is why Microsoft is now in the middle of launching, yet another, hardcore, Vista-marketing/salvage campaign (which apparently, includes the standard shills and endless repeating of carefully-crafted marketing-rhetoric). And, Id say that their latest "Busting Vista-myths" campaign, is clearly shaping-up to be yet another, highly-dubious, "Get the Facts", type, charade.

God, I am so tired of the same old stunts, and behavior, from Microsoft.

And, finally, I would also like to point-out that, merely stating Vistas market, and technical, realities (its expensive... provides no real direct-advantages to consumers... does have technical-problems... gives Microsoft too much control... and just isnt doing well in the marketplace, etc.)... is not "bashing"... its just honest-observation.