[GMan]

Raife1 says:
bq. I cant help but notice (and, somewhat, resent) the continued FUD... such as the repeated claim that those that point-out the ongoing (and very real) problems with "Vista"... either dont use it, or... are simply Mac, and/or Linux, "fanboys".
News flash: Vista is getting traction in the marketplace!

As noted earlier: "Most problems with Vista are between the chair and the keyboard!"

I have enjoyed, and continue to enjoy, seamless integration with this best-of-breed OS.

G-Man

[raife1]

GMan Says:

>> News flash: Vista is getting traction in the marketplace!

Real News Flash: Vista is still, pretty much, a market-disaster... Hence Microsoft gearing-up to spend many more millions, on yet another, "Vista really is better, and customers actually DO (and should) love it... really... really...", campaign. Sorry.

Oh, and... Simply, repeatedly, declaring victory (in the face of the overwhelming counter-facts) does NOT make it true. And, honestly, that approach just does not work in the long-term. Frankly, I think Microsoft has made its bed...


>> As noted earlier: "Most problems with Vista are between the chair and the keyboard!"

Nice sound-bite... might impress the ignorant... but, I suspect that Microsoft has already fully-tapped that market. So, I suggest everyone else try, actually, reading earlier posts (and the overwhelming preponderance of personal, and professional, experiences that are actually available on the matter).


>> I have enjoyed, and continue to enjoy, seamless integration with this best-of-breed OS.

Good for you... Really... if thats your honest-position... I am truly glad for you. I guess its just too bad (for Microsoft) that so many others (including so many IT-professionals, reviewers, and customers) just dont seem to share the same experiences/opinions.

[VHMP01]

{size:3}"One thing the survey doesn't mention is that every Intel Mac running Windows as a second OS, while counting as a plus for Vista and/or XP, is also a hardware sale for Apple"... maybe so before Intel Macs, but not now. Have you heard about Wintel? It is kind of collaboration that MS and Intel have joy for decades. However, deeper inside is investment between both companies. So practically, a thing the survey or you do not mention is that every Intel Mac, while counting as a plus for Apple, is also a direct hardware sale for Intel and an indirect sale for MS, thank you.{size}

{size:3}{size}

[butlerwm]

Quote

{quote:title=VHMP01 wrote: So practically, a thing the survey or you do not mention is that every Intel Mac, while counting as a plus for Apple, is also a direct hardware sale for Intel and an indirect sale for MS, thank you.}{quote}

I think I'm really not clear what point this statement makes. Obviously every sale of an Intel Mac is an Intel sale. However, Intel's conpetition, in this matter, would be other CPU makers (i.e., AMD, IBM, AIM, etc.). Additionally, only those Macs with an aftermarket install of Windows will ever see Windows. As well, there is no option for Windows to be preinstalled on any Mac platform. So, again, only those who make an aftermarket purchase of Windows will ever show on sales (or market penetration) statistics. Bootleg installations don't factor into sales figures.

While I'll acknowledge that Microsoft and Intel may share the same bed, they are not joined at the hip. As such, not every sale that benefits Intel makes it way into Microsoft's pocket. In otherwords, while it may be a marriage, it's not a community property one. And that Intel benefits from the sale of Intel Macs, only when those same Macs actual run Windows does Microsoft share in that benefit. It also does not negate the fact that Apple is enjoying greater computer sales than at anytime in its history.

[VHMP01]

"While I'll acknowledge that Microsoft and Intel may share the same bed, they are not joined at the hip"...

Share the same bed, MS and Intel, precisely. This by both investing millions in each other, which would not happen if there were no benefits, would it? Therefore, to be able to invest those amounts you have to get a lot of sales going, which now that Apple shares dividends from their hardware sales, obviously helps Intel's investment in MS. Now that every single license (not pirated) of Windows runs on a Mac (granted under Parallels), it helps MS's investment in Intel.

Apple ‘used' to be a sole hardware company. Now their use of Intel processors, Western Digital hard drives, ATI graphic cards, Sony DVD RWs, etc. are just helping our PC world. So you climb few steps in market share, yet you now have to share more of your benefits with us!

[GMan]

URGENT: Raife1, Step out of the echo chamber!

raife1 shares with us:
bq. Real News Flash: Vista is still, pretty much, a market-disaster... Hence Microsoft gearing-up to spend many more millions, on yet another, "Vista really is better, and customers actually DO (and should) love it... really... really...", campaign. Sorry.
No need to be sorry; your wrong! Concerning your "news" flash: Maybe you missed the title of this article. Hint: Look up to the sentence starting with "Re:"

(BTW, I haven't seen the campaign you say MS is gearing-up for. Does it exist anywhere other than in your mind?)
bq. Oh, and... Simply, repeatedly, declaring victory (in the face of the overwhelming counter-facts) does NOT make it true. And, honestly, that approach just does not work in the long-term. Frankly, I think Microsoft has made its bed...
Whose declaring victory? Other than me in response to your post? ;)

Mean, old G-Man said "Most problems with Vista are between the chair and the keyboard!,' and this is what I got:
bq. Nice sound-bite... might impress the ignorant... but, I suspect that Microsoft has already fully-tapped that market. So, I suggest everyone else try, actually, reading earlier posts (and the overwhelming preponderance of personal, and professional, experiences that are actually available on the matter).
I didn't mean, for a second, to suggest that you are ignorant. Maybe, though, with a good Vista manual... Anyway, it's not a sound-bite, but an oft-heard quote from the many other seasoned IT folks who are sick of populist pessimists, knee-jerk MS-Bashers like ...

Have a great weekend! I

G--Man

[rgreen4]

G-Man, you should be ashamed of yourself. These people have their minds made up and have drunk the kool-aid of the anti-MS crowd and then you go and confuse them with the facts.

The fact is that the vast majority of those who have tried Vista are perfectly satisfied and do not understand what the fuss is about. I remember back in 2001 the exact same arguments were used against XP. I fell for them and when I got an HP business class desktop I removed the drive and installed Win2000 on a new drive. What I did not know at that time that XP (NT5.1) was actually an upgrade of Win2K (NT5.0) in the same way that SP2 (NT5.2) was an upgrade to XP. After a few months, I discovered that I had fallen for misinformation and re-installed the original XP drive which is still in the machine.

When Vista came out, I received my free upgrade to a qualified HP machine and installed in on a new drive so that if I did not like it, I could easily return to the original XP MCE, which never was returned to the machine until after it was reformatted and used as a data drive. I now have Vista running flawlessly on three machines, adding to the Media Center a laptop and a custom built desktop. Both desktops were clean installs, and the laptop had Vista installed at the factory, but the first thing I did was rip Norton's Internet Security out.

I find my self missing a lot of the nice additons Vista has when I am on an XP machine.

[GMan]

RGreen4,

You are obviously an enlightened thinker!

raif1 fancies himself as a herder of the disenchanted., leader of the lemmings. Great work, if you can get it. Sadly, the shoddy tapestry drapping this emperor with no clothes has been removed. I suspect we'll not hear from him again.

Rgreen4, I raise my glass to you!! Here's to clear thinkers, those not afraid to buck the tide!

Esteemed regards,

G-Man

[raife1]

GMAN said:



>> "...BTW, I haven't seen the campaign you say MS is gearing-up for. Does it exist anywhere other than in your mind?"

Well... to allay your ignorance... You might try Googling "Vista Myths Campaign". (Hint: "Google" is a "search engine"... the one Microsoft is currently competing, so hard, against).



>> "Anyway, it's not a sound-bite, but an oft-heard quote from the many other seasoned IT folks who are sick of populist pessimists, knee-jerk MS-Bashers like ..."

Hmmm... Perhaps, if... I, personally (not to mention, the many IT-professionals that I actually communicate, and interact, with daily), hadnt worked in the computer-industry for literally decades... And, if... a lot of the information I have referenced, didnt actually come directly from Microsoft... And, if... desperate Microsoft-defenders werent either unbelievably-ignorant of these (easily verifiable) facts (...or, perhaps, just intentionally disseminating false-information)... then such mis-information wouldnt be so annoyingly SHILL-like.


>> "Maybe, though, with a good Vista manual..."

Have quite a few. Thanks. Though, if I tire of dissecting APIs and "AERO" programming-features (I no longer teach programming, But, I still like to keep fresh)... and, if... I happen to walk by the discount-tables at the local bookstores... Who, knows.

Finally, a bit of helpful (I hope) personal-advice. I think MOST people have come to realize that calling someone (no matter how relevant their experiences)... a "basher", is nothing more than a transparent attempt to rhetorically-dismiss them, without actually addressing the issues they raise (And, yes, I do know that this IS part of Microsofts standard propaganda-kit these days... But, I do really think its wearing a little thin).

[Delonte]

i dont think we should compare os by sales as many factors that dont affect the os itself may affect their sales(myths about OS's,etc.)

[jessedorland]

Three months ago I bought a laptop Sony Vaio came with Windows Vista Premium. I tried using it for a three days. I quickly relaized that it was not going to workout for me. So I quickly downgraded to XP. I was also going to buy a new PC, and here in Canada I couldn't find any Desktop with XP. So I went to Apple store and bought a MacMini which is what I am using now.

I am very happy with my purchase, I will not buy Vista loaded computer/laptop. Normally, I built computer on my own, but new hardware are don't work properly with XP Pro.

One thing I should mention, last friday when I was buying my min mac, I saw five people buying mac-book, and two other people were going to buying Mac. Infact one girl told me that she is buying mac due to Vista.

I'll be virus free -- she said excitedly. So there you have it -- at one out five in users in Canada are either downgrading, or completly switching to Mac. Few are even dual booting their old PC with Linux.

What we need to know is how many people are "switching"? As a new mac user I wouldn't fall in the category since I also dual booth my PC with Linux/Kubuntu -- as Debian base distro.

Neverthelss, I am a new Mac user, and if I will be building a PC in future it's solely for Linux -- I am not going to bother with Microsoft. However, I'll be using Microsoft since I am a computer technician.

To make long story short, if I really need a preloaded computer -- it's will not be loaded with Microsoft Operating System.

[GMan]

to jessedorland: Step out of the echo chamber!


bq. You're a "computer technician" but can't get Vista to work? Hmmm...
bq. Your "solution is to run two different platforms? That's convenient!
bq. You must be enjoying all of the software that won't run on a Mac!;
bq. You're sadly mistaken if you think you can extend your in-store poll (5 people?) to the nation of Canada
bq. The girl in the Apple store is high if she thinks she'll be virus-free. Apple ships with no AV on it.
G-Man ;)

[rgreen4]

jessedorland said:

Normally, I built computer on my own, but new hardware are don't work properly with XP Pro.

I don't know where you got that mistaken idea. True if you attempt to install XP (any flavor) on a machine with the SATA controller set to AHCI or Raid, then XP won't recognize the hard drive, but all you have to do is change it to IDE for IDE emulation and it loads, installs and runs just fine. I do not know of any desktop with an advanced controller that cannot have this setting changed as described. In fact if you had bothered to follow a few discussion on this community, you would have seen specific postings on just how to do that.
You bought a new Sony Vaio, and installed XP, and yet you say XP won't run on new hardware. Are you then implying that your NEW Sony is OLD hardware? Your own statement refute your statements.
If you don't like Vista, that's your perogitive, but please be factual about what will run on what.

[GMan]

Thanx rgreen4!!



You bring a level of objectivity and technical skill which is in short suppy these days.

Esteemed regards,

G-Man

[rgreen4]

Thanks, but I'm not alone anymore. A year ago it seemed like I was the only one running Vista. Now there are a good number, and we try to knock out the "spin" that the anti-Vista crowd puts out. As I said, I don't object to someone saying they prefer XP over Vista, that is their right, but to slam it for generalities and incorrect facts, it pushes my button. One thing I won't let go is a statement that is incorrect, as it just confuses the members who don't know yet.
I fell for this when XP came out and stayed with Win98 and Win2K for several years. I had trouble with Win2K and asked one of our IT guys at work, explaining I had taken my machine from XP back to Win2K, and he asked me why, and I told him what I had read. He unloaded on me for believing that garbage. I reinstalled the original HD in that machine with the original XP and it is still going strong. I still use it on occasion, but Vista is my main OS now.

[artzy65]

Lamers are lamers in both camps. Be fair, don't flame only mac users.... I have clients who use pcs and are more than lame: they are out-of-this-world lame!

I went with mac from the get-go since I'm a designer... macs have the lion's share of the creative market (production departments for newspapers, magazines, publishing houses, ad agencies and so on... a typical job opening in those industries would be for a 'Mac Production Artist').

You can't blame the average consumer for not being tech-savvy... not everybody is a geek, and as you know you have to have at least a little 'geekness' in your blood in order to even want to try to figure all this tech stuff out.

[Evildave]

What a load of horse-poo that article was.
Maybe we should look at the current trend where Micro$uck's 'lead' continues to erode, while Apple's share continues to grow? It's on the same site, so the figures are just as valid, just not almost a year in the past.
http://marketshare.h...t.aspx?qprid=9#
Remember: every single percentage point is TEN MILLION CUSTOMERS.
That means Micro$uck lost FIFTY MILLION CUSTOMERS between the period when this article was written, and NOW.
Whoa! GOOD JOB MICRO$UCK!
How many other businesses would lose fifty million customers and claim any kind of 'victory'? I mean besides the sort of business that gets a federal bailout and rents out an island to throw a big party?