[grahamjacks]

Long ago I decided to ignore the Empty msg and just go on printing until the print quality becomes unacceptable. Sure, I lose a sheet (or >1 sheet) of paper at this point, but I've a saved lot more on ink than the cost of a sheet of paper. GJ

[dgarber13]

HP does produce a printer that uses separate color cartridges (Officejet Pro L7680). I am using one now that I purchased about 2 months ago. Additionally, I am getting more pages for the cartridge. The black cartridge costs about the same as the black cartridge of the other printers that I have owned, both HP and Lexmark.

To me, empty is when the cartridge quits printing. I never have opened one up to see if there is any ink left when it has quit printing. I must admit that I usually get about 30 more pages after it says the cartridge is empty.

[OldOnliner]

kirbo63 said:

I have to chime in on the printer ink debate! I purchased several of the "saver" packs of HP ink for my HP Photosmart machine and within about 15 or so pages of print got the Replace Black Ink warning!

I'm not surprised. I am surprised the support droids at HP couldn't answer your question.

The ink you purchased was in what are called HP 02 Photo Value Packs (PVP). The package retails for $35.99. It identifies itself as such, contains ALL SIX ink cartridges, includes 150 sheets of HP Advanced Photo paper, and also indicates that the ink is specially formulated to produce 150 4x6 photo prints. As such, the black tank in that pack is almost empty as very little black ink is used when printing photos on the included paper. Different papers, different print qualities, and different print content use different ink quantities.

[sparrownightmare]

I have an Epson R280 which I bought last fall, after my last Epson C84 died after just over a year. I am not a heavy printer user. I basically use it to print the occaisonal article or recipe. It takes me about 18 months to go through a ream of paper, and I don't normally print color at all. Now, this printer uses 6 ink cartridges, and Epson wants $89.95 plus shipping for a multipack. I have noticed that even after not using the printer for over a week, the ink levels in all cartridges has gone down considerably according to the print monitor. Not only that, but if you don't print a few pages every day. the printer starts dumping blobs of ink on the sheets as they print, and the nozzles get clogged. I probably wouldn't mind so much paying that much for ink, IF I got my money's worth. But as it stands; You end up paying about $149 for a printer and then in a month or two, you end up spending 3/4 as much again, just for a few ounces of ink. And of course, should you defy the mighty printer gods at Epson (seiko), by using less expensive ink that is probably almost identical. They will instantly void your warrenty. Thats like saying you can by a GM car but you better not use anything other than their Gas in it or your warranty is gone. From what I have heard, the carts have a chip that has kind of a timed expiration period. This is the chip that reports to the printer how much is left. I am lucky if get 30 prints out of a cart before it shows as empty. This has been going on for the last 6 r 7 printers I have had, all of which were Epsons. I find this practice to be reprehensible, despite the line they hand everyone about it all being to assure quality. If Epson is listening, get this. Your quality is gone, and so has any kind of value your products may have once had. Your ink price is both ridiculous and excessive, your printers are so cheaply made that they pracically break if you look at them and they spew ink no matter who's cartridges are in them. In short, I have a hard time figuring out why people even buy Epson printers anymore. There used to be a program you could use to reset the chips in the ink carts. I wish I could find it because I am so sick of Epsons price gouging that I am about to convert to HP...



(Typoes included at no extra charge)

[jbel50]

I think it's funny how my Epson 780 toner is priced. The color is one cartridge and costs around $20.00. But the black ink is smaller and costs almost $10.00 more.

[OldOnliner]

PCWorld said:

How Do You Define 'Empty'?Indeed, how do you define it? "Depends" is the only accurate, all encompassing answer.

Some ink cartridges carry the printhead, some are just plastic tanks of fluid, and some of those tanks are fancy and include chips that perform many functions, including locking out the tank. Almost all ink tanks are chipped now, allowing them to get locked out by the printer, and those that aren't have serial numbers coded into them allowing the printer to "remember" the last "X" cartridges installed in the machine.

Many HP, Lexmark, Dell, Sharp, and some Canon cartridges include the printhead. These cost more than simple tanks of the same volume because they represent some of the smallest machines made in mass production on the planet (the head is a machine, having actual moving parts to it). There is no reason these cartridges should leave ink behind since you replace the printhead every time you buy new ink. The basis for your complaint about ink left behind lies with this kind of cartridge, not the other varieties (read on).

While some inkjet printers read cartridge levels directly, some meter ink levels at time of printing, and some are at best estimates based on printing history. Most ink cartridges with a built-in printhead do NOT read ink levels directly. As far as I know, all Lexmarks (and therefore Dell) inkjet printers, are of the estimating variety. The reported ink levels are based on printing history. The older model inkjets from most manufacturers worked this way, with no direct way to read ink level.

To increase speeds and improve quality, a lot of manufacturers have gone to two-part systems: An ink tank feeding a separate print head. New model HP Photosmarts using 02 cartridges, and OfficeJets using the 88 series (which replaced the old 10/11 series, and now the just introduced new 5xx series) all separate ink from printhead.

HP 02's are like Epson's and Brother's in that the printhead is NOT replaceable, so printer maintenance becomes very important to the life of the machine (you paid under a hundred bucks for). Thankfully, the HP uses a vacuum system that's much less wasteful than the other guy's and that system meters the ink into the printhead, able to read ink level from pressure differences. Some ink needs to remain in the system to maintain the non-removable printhead and pump system. The problem with this system isn't that they leave ink behind when reporting empty, the problem is how HP controls the ink volume in the tanks.

The better question to ask HP is why they don't put more ink in them to start with? The 02 color tanks in box from factory ALL have an astonishing 5.5ml in them, but the ones sold on the shelf have varying levels, some more, some less. WHY?

If you own the other guy's - Epson and Brother - printers ask them why their systems are so wasteful!

Canon 3, 5, 6 and 8 series individual cartridges are the only direct-reading ink tanks I've seen at the consumer level. There is a prism in the bottom of the tank and an sensor inside the printer than reads the amount of ink in the tank by refracted light. The 5 and 8 carts have a chip to defeat re-filling. Once marked as empty, the chip has to be replaced to use the tank again. The printhead is user-replaceable, too, and covered by Canon's warranty, and will cost about $50 to replace when out of warranty.

Consumer Tip #1: When you see a printer with SIX ink cartridges, it is a PHOTO printer, it is NOT a document printer. IGNORE THE HYPE AND BUY A PRINTER SUITED TO YOUR PLANNED USE.

Consumer Tip #2: Thanks to USB and networking, it's easy to have and use more than one printer. At today's prices, you should have a decent color ink jet and a simple B&W laser printer. One should be an AIO and one should be just a printer. Deciding which is AIO and which is printer is based on how you plan to use them. (I have 5 printers attached to this one PC!)
Message edited by: OldOnliner

[GAstorino]

I heard that HP and possibly other manufactuers put a chip in the cartridges that actually expire the ink after a certain period. You could find like I did that if you don't print that often and have full cartridges that they will report as empty if they go past a certain date. So beware when you buy cartridges because you might be getting an older one and might only have a day or 2 before it "expires."

[siouxs]

My HP OfficeJet just lets me know when ink is low so I just keep running until the print quality suffers. I sometimes also pull and reinsert the same cartridge if the print quality remains good. I guess it's another consideration when buying. I'd be furious if the printer locked up until I'd changed a cartridge.

[oldtimer]

Possible reasons it won't print.

You havn't printed very often lately,this clogs up the nozzels.

Does yours have a Clean Print Cartriges option ? Try this before discarding those you described.

I make it a point to do a test b/w/color print at least once a month

since i mainly use black.

Also look for a low price refill store.Mine was 1/2 the price of a new HP.

But i won't buy a tricolor printer again.:(

Go HP next time.:D

[jawbone]

A class action lawsuit was filed against the printer and ink cartridge provider Epson in the Superior Court of the State of California for the County of Los Angeles. The case was filed on behalf of all persons or entities located within the United States claiming a substantial amount of ink remained in Epson inkjet cartridges after Epson printers indicated that the cartridges were empty and suspend printer operation. The class included all those who purchased or otherwise acquired an Epson brand inkjet printer between April 8, 1999 and May 8, 2006. The class action settlement provides class members with a $45 per-printer credit for Epson America's online E-Store which may be used to buy replacement inkjet cartridges or any other product sold at the E-Store.

[amorphium]

I never realized that HP ever made separate color ink cartridges. I have had the same DeskJet722C for at least 10 years. I have printed tons of business cards on card stock, brochures, a a zillion letters. I hope they don't stop making replacement cartridges or I will have to put up with the horsepucky they are all doing now to squeeze us to buy more ink sooner than we really need to. Obviously, you can't trust a large company to be looking out for anyone but themselves which is why we unfortunately need government oversight and laws to force them to be reasonable. Leaving the "market place" up to its own devices has never been a way to keep the consumer from getting screwed.

[MidiMagic]

The printer software does NOT know how much ink is in the cartridge. It just counts the number of pages you printed.

The best way to know when to change the cartridge is to look for when the page prints bad.

[METZ]

h2. Trick your Brother inkjet into working when an ink cartridge runs dry
Below is a cut and paste from a search. This method is working great for me to use remaining Brother cartridge ink.

"There is a sensor in the printer that checks ink levels. The sensor
uses a beam of light to do so; if the light bounces back, the machine
assumes there is ink in the cart and continues to operate. If the light
is not bounced back, the machine assumes that the cart is empty and
starts beeping.

Following a suggestion I found online, I took black electrician’s tape and placed it around the cartridge’s spine. (I used blue masking tape)

The danger of such a procedure is that the print heads for each color
may become clogged. Little bits of ink supposedly dry on the heads, and
the machine routinely cycles a “small” amount of fresh ink through the
head in order to keep things clear."

[gb2110]

How do you override the counters on the HP 2600n? I have one and think I'm throwing away good toner cartdidges. Thanks,

gb@tstar.net

[rontrogdon]

i completely agree with all of you. i use hp products. and on each of my printers i get the message that the cartridge is low on ink and needs to be replaced. all i do is keep using said cartridge until i notice a change in the printout quality. i have gone as much as 3 months or more before i notice a difference. 3-n-1's have come down in price but the price of cartidges goes up into the stratosphere. simply put...they are totally unreasonable. i use reconditioned cartridges and have not yet had a problem with them. i have even taken the hp ink cartridges to walgreens and had them refilled. but watch out....they don't refill all makes. refill a black cartridge..$10. refill a color cartridge...$15. i have to cut corners wherever i can and am constantly on the lookout for a good [ie cheap] place to buy cartridges. the running low notice...delete it. let you eyes do the looking for when a cartridge needs replacing.