[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Can Apple Save the Netbook? here

[lordprocyon]

Apple can't make anything that isn't overpriced, it's in their "DNA". It's the main reason I'll never buy a mac.

[RACinWNY]

Bah! Apple SAVE the netbook? Since when does the netbook need saving? The Eee PC started it, yes, but the netbook scene is exploding and with no thanks to Apple. And no, not with netbooks with 12" screens, there are several really nice netbooks out there with a good keyboard and a 8.9" screen or so and they do NOT run sluggishly on the Atom 1.6GHz cpu either. The Acer Aspire One is a fabulous offering out right now in a zillion configs that will suit most anyone looking for a netbook. Why Asus feels a need to go bigger is beyond me except that perhaps they can't compete now and feel this is the only way to stay in the netbook game? Or maybe they're pandering to those consumers out there that don't "get" what a netbook is and should be and whine about small screens and lack of optical drives.
The BIGGEST problem I hear from this author is that although he has and loves his Eee PC he just doesn't "get" what a netbook is and should be to anyone wanting or already using one; small, lightweight, good battery life and something you grab and GO with. It's NOT your main computer and heck, it's not even you main laptop, it's a netbook!
As for Apple, saving the netbook or not, I doubt it. Apple computers are and have been notoriously expensive and the netbook market isn't one that will accept an expensive Apple entry.

[RONZUREK]

Since Apple's full-size notebooks only have 2 USB ports, I suppose their netbooks won't have any.

[aykwok]

They do have a netbook, they call it the Macbook Air. Just that it is not so low cost, just low on features. Comes down to marketing.

[bignumone]

Overpriced? Well, expensive anyway. You get what you pay for. But for one thing, do you need all that? For another, how long does it last? What is their functionality?
I personally own both and now have XP on my Macbook Pro. The PC sits because I don't need it anymore. I find that XP actually runs BETTER on that notebook!
Additionally, I have six computers around the house. I have two macs that are 10 years old and run GREAT! Two Apple laptops that are two and four years old...the two year old has better specs than most of the laptops I see on the shelf. A seven year old Vaio that has been obsolete for about five years. And a brand new PC, that I must admit I kind of like (too bad the Macbook has supplanted it as my PC.
"iPod" I really shouldn't have to say more. I have tried so many other PMDs and MP3 players, and these companies just don't seem to get it! Mainly it is the software. But additionally, the diversity of uses is just killer. Someone out there is bound to eventually figure it out. But for now, iPod is it!
iPhone...I don't need/use multifunction phones. But man, here is another device no one seems to get. How long did they make $700 cell phones that barely made phone calls properly? Apple comes along and now after several years of kicking tail, RIM comes out with something that is only 3 miles behind iPhone. So again, iPhone is it!
So I agree the products are expensive and that is why I rarely buy new ones. But when I need a computer or gadget, they are it!
So YES, I am looking forward to what they can do with the netbook! Maybe "Netbook Pro"!?!

[rocostonik]

response to the comment at the top of the list. I'd rather pay 1300 bucks on a Macbook that will last me 6-8 years without getting the blue screen of death than pay $599 on a windows PC that will crash about 3 times a month and loose all my work. When Microsoft can make an actual stable OS then i'll consider windows again but I wouldn't hold my breath. With apple you are paying for reliable performance with windows its all smoke and mirrors. yeah the price may be right but the performance is not. Yeah Microsoft may be the bigger company with more money but that has nothing to do with the end user experience. I do agree that the MacBook air is pretty skimpy on features for what you pay for but the technology in the machine I haven't seen matched by any "Netbook". I doubt Apple will make a "NetBook" line of Macs and if they do

[bignumone]

rocostonik restated my point.
But I don't think XP is that bad (I haven't used Vista).
I had one more thought as I chewed on this article and some of the comments. "PC accolytes" should be happy Apple is around. Does anyone really believe MS would have improved Windows at all had Apple not pushed them with OSX? Does anyone believe we would have legal on-line music and affordable MP3 players were it not for the iPod and iTunes? And was anybody going to make the laptop as usable and affordable as it is today before Apple chose to focus on it as a product line? Would we have Firewire and would USB be as universal and widely used? Would we have cell phones that do more than cost a lot and make phone calls? How about PDAs? Wireless networks?
Apple either pushed these technologies forward or outright invented them and made the market for them.
MS and other PC makers did some things as well, but not nearly the number of new technologies and some would never have been popular had Apple not pushed it forward.
Competition is good! And I think if Apple gets into the netbook market, the market will explode with new technologies, not necessarily invented by Apple.

[RACinWNY]

Alas, as I thought, nay feared, this is dwindling down fast to an Apple vs. PC discussion and totally misses the meat of the article; Can Apple "SAVE" the netbook? Honestly, what is there to "SAVE" is my question. Sure, Apple is competition and yes, I wholeheartedly agree that competition is GOOD. Without Apple Microsoft's OS would not be what it is, good or bad, and IMO the whole computer market would be quite different. But re: netbooks, what will Apple bring to that market that isn't already there or on its way? Apple's Macbook Air which I HAVE actually used one and liked it but wouldn't buy, is quite incredible in many ways, but has its drawbacks too, IMO, especially for the price. Yes, Apple makes nice computers overall and their OS is quite solid and nice. I'm sure their computers last forever too if you all say so, but for me I can't imagine still using today a computer I'd put together or purchased 8-10 years ago. This is simply because the tech that I WANT and NEED (need=for gaming mainly) wouldn't be there, even in an Apple computer. So lasting that long isn't on my list of needs when it comes to purchasing or building a computer. (I purchase portables, I build desktops)

As for other devices, this article isn't really about them but I figured it would be brought up. I have a 5G 60gb iPod. I really love it. However, I also have an older Rio Karma 20gb that I simply adore and IMO it sounds MUCH better, even on compressed files. It supports FLAC, which is a big plus too for me. And it is just plain more useful and configurable. For me. I did not, however, get that for my 90 year old Dad's birthday last Spring. Nope, I got him a 80gb iPod. He saw and heard mine and fell in love with it so much he wanted one. Badly! He also loved my Altec Lansing i7 dock, so I got one of those too plus a good pair of over the ear headphones (he's worn hearing aids most of his adult life and that's the only "cans" he'll use). Why the iPod for him? Easier to use and more to the point for him, easier to SEE. So although I love the Rio Karma I will be the first to admit that Apple really hit it on the mark with the interface on the iPod. I'm not impressed with the iPhone one bit though. The iPod Touch is interesting but not interesting enough to me to spend the $$ on it when I have what I need in other devices.

Maybe Apple will bring something new, exciting and hey, even worth Apple dollars to the netbook scene! I am completely in love with my netbook (Acer Aspire One running XP Home, 1gb RAM, 160GB HD) and the whole idea behind these devices. I've had Apple computers in the past ( from a IIe to an iMac) but never could totally embrace the Apple OS, pricing and closed mindset, but I'm open enough to look at whatever they bring to the netbook market. But as far as them "saving" the netbook, I can't see where there's any teeth to that remark. Not one bit. Or bite. Or even byte ( sorry, too much coffee and I couldn't resist )

[RACinWNY]

Rocostonik: FWIW, Over 4 years ago we purchased two $479 Dell laptops with Celeron cpus running XP Home. Low end laptops for our business. Neither has failed us. Neither has lost data. Neither has had to have the OS re-installed. Both have had HARD use. I'm talking hauled around in a pickup, carried on many flights, bumped around a field office, a home office and all over the house and even by my bedside when I was laid up for 2 months but had to keep things going. I just gave mine, a month ago, to my sister since I purchased this Acer Aspire One netobook. She has had no troubles with hers. My other laptop, a big 17" widescreen $1400.00 HP is 2.5 years old, running XP Media Center. It has had an enormous amount of use and some of it was a bit nasty (long gaming sessions, used in an old, dusty camper back and forth across the country and out in WY for playing DVDs and games, dragged around the house and on trips), was used as my main computer for two months in fact during a move when my desktop was packed up, and I also dropped it twice. I've had no troubles with it. The OS has not needed re-installation. I don't remember any Blue Screens of Death on it. I've never lost data. My new netbook is a month old. Solid. No BSD. XP Home runs quite snappy on this Intel Atom 1.6GHz cpu. I paid $399 for the netbook. My desktop is self built, a little over 3 years old and I've never had a lick of trouble with it either.



I know Apple afficianados don't believe these types of stories but honestly, it's not as bad as some would believe. I've had a computer of some sort at home since 1983. I've seen the best and the worst of them all, including Windows OS systems. But dollar for dollar I just can't buy into the Apple computer thing wholeheartedly. I do believe though that it also depends a lot on what you DO with your computers and also what you're used to re: the OS.

[nmcallister]

Hi RACinWNY -- I know you hate the "save" phrasing, but I do think there's evidence that the netbook category might not last long. There's an aspect of this kind of product that suggests a "race to the bottom," and manufacturers aren't going to want to cut their own throats by putting pressure on price. Meanwhile, in the current economic situation, a "lite" laptop might be perceived as a luxury item by many potential customers. The enterprise customers aren't there yet. Guys like you and I like them, but I suspect neither of us is typical of the mass market. And even if netbooks are cheap, when junky low-end machines from major manufacturers are less than $500, too, I think the average consumer might get one of those -- at least they'll be able to play DVDs! As you say, one isn't meant to buy a netbook as a "do-everything" machine. But if cash is tight, the customers are going to want the do-everything machines, and the economies of scale might not be there to support netbooks as a category. Something to chew on, anyway. Cheers, N

[sfoalex]

These Mac users still think PCs are blue-screening on a daily basis the way the echo that "you get what you pay for" garbage.

I'm proud to say I got what I paid for. A $599 Toshiba laptop with features that rival any MacBook. Mine came loaded. 3 GB of RAM and a 250 GB hard drive, and a 34/54mm Express Card slot so I could add a Sprint Mobile Broadband card without having some USB product sticking out of the side of my PC.

Another thing these Mac users don't want to admit to is that the Mac is a low cost PC. It uses Intel's reference design just like my $599 Tosh does. It uses the same audio card, the same everything. In fact most low cost PC laptop either have the same built in Intel graphics, or better nVidia graphics. Apple only recently semi caught up by offering MacBooks with nVidia GPUs in them. Long before that, PCs had that option and still for a lot less money.

You get what you pay for huh? You Mac users are getting the same thing. All that is different are Industrial Design, OSX, and a lot higher price tag. The computer you are actually using, uses the same chips, the same reference design, the same everything. Do you kids actually think you got something better in the box? You don't.

I have had plenty of Kernel Panics on the Mac. Plenty of beach-ball stalls too. The Mac is far from perfect. And believe me, Apple has a long history of going to their forums and deleting comments made by customers trying to alert Apple of problems. They sensor their own customers.

Even a Dell warranty bests Apple's Apple Care by a galaxy. They will come to your house and fix your machine for you. Does Apple do this? No. Never has and never will. Apple is all about talk, but no action.

Apple spend half a billion on advertising, then claims Microsoft should fix Vista. Yeah right, I'll take Vista, and XP over MacOS X any day of the week.

If you think MacOSX is so much better, then why doesn't Apple release it to outside sales? The answer is simple. Apple is scared out of their minds. They fear no one would buy Macs. Gee I wonder why they fear that? Perhaps no one would, which tells you that they know they are charging too much.

You might say that then they'd have to support too many varying hardware products. Oh, so let me translate that line of bull. You are telling me that Apple can't support all that hardware. The job Microsoft does every day. You think you guys are better and you're too chicken to even go out into the real world. How does this make you better? You can't even fight on the same footing as Microsoft, and yet you call them company lacking in quality.

Even Linux runs on just about anything. I guess Linux can do what Apple can't either. Seems to me Apple can't engineer their way out of a paper bag, and then points the finger at everyone else. Kind of like the old saying, "who ever smelt it, dealt it." Apple dealt it big-time. Never have I seen such a collection of chickens in suits pointing fingers at everyone else who does a far better job supporting customers, partners and developers.

And the market doesn't lie. Apple loves to look at North America numbers. Constantly saying they are growing well over the average. But they are so full of it. Spin-doctors if I ever saw one. One only needs to look at the world wide market to see the world has voted with their dollar. And well over 94% of the worlds customers choose PCs, not Macs. And don't give me that bull that a Mac is a PC. Windows based computers blow the Mac market away.

You guys got a lot of ads and a lot of intellectually challenged customers who are encouraged when a company calls you special. Well you guys are special. As in special ed, lol.

I have a $20 dollar bill I want to sell you for a $100. It's special money. You're special aren't ya? Buy my special.

Alex Alexzander

[RACinWNY]

NMCALLISTER: Many valid points there. I agree completely that the netbook market is arriving at a pretty poor time economically. It would be, for many, a pure luxury purchase. Mine was a replacement for the old Dell but as I pointed out, I'm not computer-less by a long shot :) Nor was the Dell near the end of its life and is in fact serving my relative well in his somewhat new side business. I also noted that Black Friday, and I'm sure Cyber Monday, was and will be full of some pretty darn good deals on "regular" laptops, meaning those WITH an optical drive, bigger screen, even a faster cpu. And I saw many with XP rather than Vista as the OS too. For many people considering a portable computer they will not want to spend $399 for a netbook when for the same or a tad more they can get a "real" computer :)



I do hope that the netbook scene doesn't blend into the "regular" laptop computer market. But I saw, after I posted here earlier today, that Acer will be releasing an updated Acer Aspire One with a 10" screen. I know that many people do NOT like the 8.9" screen and smaller keyboard. But I just think they don't GET the netbook idea. A bigger screen means shorter battery life. A netbook, at least for me, has released me from the AC brick and cord. With the 6 cell battery I get 6 hours or so on a full charge! Although I'm a female I have larger than average hands for one and always have (I never could buy women's gloves) yet I find this keyboard and even the touchpad, which normally I DESPISE, quite nice to use (I touch type thankfully). I do wish that there was more emphasis within the netbook market on what a netbook is MEANT to be, and what it isn't, but I suppose that'd be too honest, and might kill the market all by itself! I find so many people who just don't get it but when they see me out somewhere with my AAO they're ga-ga over it, especially after they've tried it and learned a bit about what it has and can do.



As you say though, these are tough times and for so many a netbook IS a luxury purchase so I suppose I will have to bite the bullet and admit that the word SAVE may be needed, but I still disagree strongly that Apple can save it! :) They just can't seem to put out a computer that has a decent price for what they give you. On the other hand, I'm watching the netbook market, and have been since I saw the Asus Eee PC when it first came out, and the past couple months especially have been very interesting, I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see Apple jump into the fray, and Apple CAN do some surprising things with small devices, although I won't mention the Newton here ... oops, I just did :)



One thing I'm watching is if netbooks will become bundled with 3G accounts like is done in some other countries. THAT might "SAVE" the netbook market more than anything else! Acer is soon to be shipping the AAO WITH 3G. In fact, mine has the place for it and there's a mod floating around for do it yourself. Of course, I'm not horribly impressed with 3G in the US though and that might make a big impact on the bundle approach. Let's face it, geographically this country has a lot of obstacles to implementing it like it is in Europe. Watching regular ANALOG cell phone service roll out here was interesting and living for a few years earlier this decade in a very remote part of the US really drove home those obstacles, along with high bandwidth internet service (satellite up and down wasn't that bad!).



All in all, many things I've recently been involved with have reminded me even deeper that although I had to budget to get this netbook at least I COULD do that. So many right now would look at me like I'm extremely frivolous and I CAN understand that. Thus yup, this fabulous little netbook and the market for them just might need "saving" ... by Apple or anyone else!

[bignumone]

Man, and I thought I was being long winded.
I use both flavors. I like the Mac better. End of story.
I hope it bothers you PC Accolytes, good! Push MS to make a better OS. (That is really the problem, the hardware is fine)
Push the hardware makers to innovate and send a finished product to market.
If Mac makes a net book, it will be awesome and no PC will rival it. Yes it will save the market. End of story.

[RACinWNY]

bignumone: Yup, I'm verbose. Don't read it if that bothers you is how I deal with that. I'm too old to change, I've tried but nope...can't do it. Twitter is my current "exercise" in non-verbosity (if that's a word). It's overcast and I'm NOT going anywhere near the stores and streets with all the wild shoppers out there. So, I get to talk here instead :) Maybe I'll someday write something great and will be the next Dickens, eh? He WAS verbose, that's for sure!



I disagree that if Apple puts out a netbook is will be the best on the market. Why? The price. However, IF they can compete price-wise with whatever else it out at that time, they might do extremely well. But no matter, Apple-ites will always disagree with me and that's that.



Oh, I DO agree with you re: the OS situation. Although IMO XP is extremely stable I do acknowledge that the Mac OS is better. Myself, beyond the price point on the hardware I have troubles with the lack of software for the Mac OS. SOOOO many things I want to do with a computer I can't with the Mac OS. Heck, the OS situation is why I opted for XP instead of Linux on my netbook! Although I enjoy Linux, not the flavor sold w/my AAO though, it was just EASIER to get it with XP because so many apps that I use and even my printer, are a pain to implement w/Linux or just plain aren't available.



Also though, you gotta agree that if we're REAL honest with ourselves, part or maybe ALL of why we prefer one OS over another, especially with the Windows vs. Mac OS offerings over the years, is what we're most familiar with and comfortable with. Heck, I remember hating every single OS I ever switched to compared to the one I was used to. I even HATED having to use a mouse! :) And although I've had touchpads on many laptops I hated them with a passion and always carried a tiny USB mouse. But when I got this AAO I told myself, you WILL learn to use the touchpad even if it is a bit wonky, and guess what, I can and do! No more toting about a tiny USB mouse. One more piece of freedom with this netbook but I admit it was one I could have had a long time ago if I'd just made myself be comfy with the touchpad. :)



I'll try to not write anymore here, at least for awhile :)



Ms. Verbosity in WNY (now all my friends who see this will know for sure who this is!)

[sfoalex]

Microsoft already makes a better OS. It's called Vista. And though Apple loves to claim it is damaged goods, I beg to differ. Seriously, aside from the called crashes which simply do not happen in the volume you Mac users claim they do, what is so superior about OSX in your opinion? Because in my opinion, Vista and XP leave the PC user open to a great deal of flexibility to software and hardware choices. That directly translates to NetBooks, large servers, custom made gaming platforms for those that love that sort of thing, and on and on. It seams to me that we PC users get a lot for our dollar. And it seems to me that Apple is synonymous with the closed system which is also more expensive, and should not be given that is does so much less and offers so much less. It ought to cost less than it does.

I also do not agree OSX is better. What's better?

Alex

[sfoalex]

I don't think Apple the threat to Microsoft. I think Linux is a much greater thread to Microsoft. Many governments have expressed lapsing their contract licenses with Microsoft and sited a willingness to go to Linux or OpenSource software such as OpenOffice.org. OpenSource software such as Apache, MySQL, etc are a true threat to Microsoft. They are already a 20% plus competitor in the enterprise server space. Apple doesn't even rate high enough to cause Microsoft to even blink.

Look at Microsoft's business interests:

XBox and XBOX 360, which compete with Sony and Nintendo. Not Apple.

Microsoft Enterprise and Small Business Servers, which compete with IBM, SUN, and Linux / OpenSource. Not Apple.

Microsoft Office which pretty much owns the business world, world-wide, and only truly competes with IBM and Open Source, and by IBM I mean Lotus Notes. But Exchange is a clear winner here. Where is Apple? Oh year, they don't exist. They don't know what groupware is. Meanwhile, IBM and Microsoft are out there making billions of dollars in that very space.

Look at Microsoft on the consumer front if you want. Just Dell alone sells almost twice as many computers as Apple per quarter. Slightly more than 210 million PCs are sold per year world-wide. Apple sells barely 10 million and that's a new number for them. That's if they continue their record pace at 2.5 million per quarter. That's only this year. Prior years, Apple was lucky to sell 800,000 computers per quarter. Even at 2.5 million, they pale compared to Windows based computers. You Sir, clearly are seeing this through the perception Apple has created. The raw data shows Microsoft so far ahead of Apple that it makes any Apple argument rediculous.

Linux on the other hand can compete on every PC that is sold. It has a desktop. It has an enterprise footprint that makes money for Novell, IBM, RedHat and many others. It's in Microsoft's face. Apple is not. Apple is good and making themselves seem far more important than their numbers show they are. They are truly that loud cockroach. They never die, but they never become anything more than the cockroach that they are. Let me put it this way. Pretty much everyone will agree that the iPod is number one. And many may ask why Microsoft even competes with the Zune. They will say things like, Game over, you sell hardly anything, why are you still here. Well, Apple is the Zune. That's their share of the computer world. They sell just 10 million out of 210 million machines. An absolutely pathetic number. And that absolutely pathetic number is a record setting number for Apple. It's better than they have ever done in their lives. Of course they are spending 500 million this year in advertising, so I'll understand if PCWorld gets upset with me calling the cockroach what it is. After all, money talks.

Alex Alexzander

[MleB]

Yikes!
Tucked along in the article was one line that particularly gave me the willies -
"...The prospect of an inexpensive mobile computer that melds the netbook form factor with technologies and concepts from the iPhone is intriguing..."
I had a sudden flash to the ill-conceived Palm Foleo - the 'companion' device (read: bigger screen and a keyboard) but otherwise useless and not a standalone device. Sudden vision then of the Apple iNetbook - simply a bigger version of the iPhone, complete with its many downfalls once one gets past its intent as a CDD (Content Delivery Device) to the iTunes and App Store.
I can't see the value of a device that requires internet connectivity to be of use, or that is woefully lacking even basic inter-connectivity between apps (cut/paste leaps to mind) or a WP.
I'd consider a fully-featured iNetbook, but Jobs has already said he sees no need for a netbook as Apple has the iPhone - and while the marketing boffins might be trying to convince him otherwise, the resulting device (if culled from the iPhone) could be a disaster while a true netbook at, say, $500 would gut Apple's traditional (overpriced) notebook sales.
Meanwhile, I agree that ASUS seems to have lost its way in the market that it created - and companies like Acer have filled the void (with features and price) that ASUS abandoned.
I still use my original ASUS 701 4G as my daily travel computer - and it does 90% of the stuff I do on my home computer. Hardly qualifies as a 'netbook' and most certainly not an iPhone.

[rocostonik]

Vista is a complete ripp off of the entire mac OS X line. Yeah windows may have a bigger gaming Line up but as for as actual productive work in either audio or visual stuff OSX I found is the stable choice. Trust me I've used windows for that kind of work before and it's nothing but heart break. As far as netbooks go apple has no business making netbooks because their products lines are more full experience focused. Meaning If they already have notebooks there is no need for a netbook( kind of useless). Plus all those games you
Love to play on windows were probably 70% developed on a mac same thing goes with that OSX like GUI on vista.

[sfoalex]

Well, you just happened to bark up the wrong tree. I'm a former editor, of the video type, and I have written and published more than 40 articles, and 1 book on the subject. So let's talk audio and video. The vast majority, and I mean like virtually one hundred percept of special effects in virtually every movie you have ever watched is done on Flint, or Inferno, both of which are not on MacOSX. Virtually all but maybe 5 movies that had any volume of audience were cut on Avid Xpress Pro and Media Composer and finished on DS Nitris. More than 75% of all Avid customers are PC customers, not Mac customers and has been that way since Apple dropped to 3 slots on pro line years back. Just about every Hollywood DVD you watch is authored on Sonic Scenarist. Some years past were on Fusion and Creator, which were Mac products, but Sonic dropped 100% of Mac development years ago.In fact, every Pixar film you see is edited on Avid. The render farm Pixar uses is intel based, and long before Apple switched to Intel mind you.

Have you read the book written about how Cold Mountain was edited on Final Cut Pro? I bet you have not. Because even Apple as described in that book stayed far away from Walter Murch saying they didn't think editing Cold Mountain on FCP was a good idea. Which completely floored Murch who countered that by asking why then is FCP advertised in so many film editing magazines. You should read about the hell he went through. Though as a member of the FCPUG in Los Angeles, and as the co-founder of two Avid groups, I have met Murch and he did say he would and did edit another film on FCP, he didn't Apple for sound. He used ProTools on PCs in standard bays for the audio. Yet Apple loves to show him in front of SoundTrack pro in an attempt to pretend he uses it professionally. He doesn't. No one does. It's worthless garbage.

I happen to work in DVD replication right now. I do art, editing, authoring of both SD and Blu-ray. PCs have had Blu-ray for over two years. Where is Apple? You know what we test those DVDs on before manufacturing? Eclipse suites. CATS signal testing. Both are PC apps. Movies are pretty much a PC process, and only a few are on a Mac. When you see stories about how macs are used, it's almost always in some minor way. Like a Mac guy likes photoshop on the Mac and did the 2D art on the Mac, and so Apple claims involvement. Spin doctors as I keep saying. I'll tell what Apple is best at on terms of entertainment. Cheap pornography. 100% of the cheap, home grown porn that gets shot, edited, and authored is done so on a Mac. You don't know it but each time a Mac is used in DVD creation, guys like me see what is called, the "Provider ID" and I see what created the content.

Even the product manager Brian Meany once said in a meeting I was in something to the effect of the porn industry was likely where most of Apple's so called pro customers came from. Don't remember what he said word for word, and he was smiling as he said it, but the point was clear enough. Anyone with a low budget video was a Mac customer.

You have a few stand-outs, like Walter Murch, Alex Lindsey of Pixel Corps, etc. And I have seen a lot of Avid business go the way of cheap FCP systems. But no more so than Matrox Axio on the PC.

I myself started using PCs for all Quark, Illustrator and Photoshop work about 3.5 years ago. A while before that I did my own testing on After Effects and had found that I could render 6 times faster on intel then on the G5. Of course my Mac friends flat out called it a lie, so I video taped a 30 minute long render, which the PC finished in 5 minutes and 24 seconds. Recently I was listing to Leo LePorte talk about how he is switching from FCP to Premiere Pro on the PC, not the Mac version. Two reasons were cited for this. Cheaper, and much faster rendering time. Exactly the same reason I had almost 4 years ago, and this is regardless that the Mac is now intel. According to LePorte, Premiere Pro uses the GPU on a specific video card, likely a Quadro to accelerate rendering. Apple has always lagged in support for video cards that the PC has tons of support for. The PC makes use of so much add on hardware it makes it an easy choice for custom designed and purpose-built systems to accomplish just about anything cheaply.

Look at most of auto desks products. All PC based. Perhaps only Combustion is on both platforms. Virtually all of their flag ships on PC only. If it were not for Maxon's Cinema 4D or Maya being multi-platform, I'd have said you have no 3D to speak of. Hugely successful products like 3D Studio Max and Auto CAD are PC only. I thought Apple might buy Luxology and take a stab at kiddie rendering for grandma but their didn't. They were too chicken to buy Maya and so an investment company bought them and tripled their value in just a few months time. But Shake, which Apple did buy, simply got killed. Perhaps to be rolled into something in the feature. I hope so, because we have not seen a real update to Apple's getting lamer by the second FCP suite. Meanwhile Avid's Script Sync is a thing of legend. Speaking of copying, Apple has consistently copied tons of features out of Avid over the years. Who are they copying with Pages, Keynote, and Numbers? It's not like they invented the technologies. Did they create their own Kernel for OSX, or borrow and modify a Mach kernel from BSD. I think you know the answer. Please don't talk to me about who rips off who. They all rip off each other. You think Apple made the first smart phone, MP3 player or editing or music app? Hardly. SoundTrack Pro is really a licensed rip off of Sony's Acid Pro. FCP is from Macromedia. DVD Studio Pro is actually DVD Maestro with less than half the feature-set of the original app they bought and minus the real time MPEG encoder card. Aside from Motion, all of their pro apps are bought second hand.

What's a rip off. The Amiga and the Atari ST had a GUI. You think Apple was only company working on such a technology, actually thought off by Xerox and licensed to Apple. By the way, 3COM and Adobe also got technology in heavy use today from Xerox. Perhaps you have heard of these technologies. PostScript and Ethernet. Let's take those out of OSX so Apple can be less guilty and see how useful the OS is then. Technology is a wheel. Once you realize round is the best way to roll down hill, it's only a matter of time before everyone else comes to the same conclusion. Just because someone else realizes this same fact, it doesn't make them a thief. It's simply reinforces that we have all realized a universal truth. Like the concept of two button mice being better than one button. Clue in Jobs will ya. He seems to keep missing that memo.

Did you ever use OpenLook on Sun back in the day? It has a doc by the way. Then Next got a sideways doc. Then Apple bought NeXT and got a doc where ever. So by your comment, no one at Microsoft would have decided it is a good idea to place an icon somewhere on the screen to represent a running app. Good thing Apple bought the idea from NeXT who stole it from Sun, otherwise those Ph.Ds would have never thought of it. Yeah, right...

Alex Alexzander