[VHMP01]

Totally biased again, PCWorld is getting boring on this matter over and over; all reporters should be laid off… IT IS BETA you know! Or have you forgotten what these Betas are for? Obviously biased again. If it had been a rotten ‘apple’ SP (If they ever care to release one), I can hear you saying ‘Good improvements maid’ and not ‘More Efficient, But Not By Much’. Stop crapping on and be subjective please.

[sludgehound]

Works ok for me on Vista HP SP1. Main things I had to do after the fairly fast

update done on quad core PC. Did search for removal of lower right corner

message about Evaluation Copy. Follow instructs in Safe Mode. Gone.

And SP2 turns on DEP. Turn it off thru the administrator command prompt

method rather than using the Vista OS method which stayed off but SP2 would

kill IE7 whenever ran iSpell on a website reply. All in all seems tad quicker and

less crachy. Boot time didn't improve as some claim.

[dragon69]

more whining and crying about a slant on a vista article hhmmm M$ (short for microsoft ) must be spending big bucks on getting people to lye about how good vista is lol
here is a towel for all those commentators
btw i read both positive ( very few) and negatives ( very common) articles on vista and run vista home premium 64 bit and windoze xp pro 32 bit and ubuntu on a triple boot system and i see how fast the file transfers are in win xp compared to vista and all microsoft can say is that they have fixed it lol when really all they do is just pull the wool over your eyes ( vista lovers) wake up as everyone did not have a great vista experience
all your whining about how great vista is is not helping anyone in the real world
if you don't like reading negative comments about vista then stop reading vista articles in my humble experience
good luck and take care everyone
Chuck
btw i hope windoze 7( or service pack 2) can fix all the problems with vista

[dragon69]

good comments by TechieXP, sludgehound,rixware and praack but the whining from the vista lovers can be skipped (imho)


yeah my machine is old (1 year old) and only a dual core with 2 gb of ddr2 and a 250 gb hdd but it is all i got and works great most of the time







but i still have a problem with the sound dropping out when i am playing poker on fool tilt and have music playing with windoze media player but most other problems have been fixed or at least improved some from a year ( when i installed vista home premium 64 bit and ubuntu hardy heron 64 bit and win xp pro 32 bit ) but everything is not perfect

gl and tc e1

chuck

remember that just because you had a good vista experience does not mean everyone else did

[piyushsingh]

dragon69 said:

if you don't like reading negative comments about vista then stop reading vista articles in my humble experience

btw - if u dont like reading anything positive from anyone , then stop reading vista articles.

dragon69 said:

>remember that just because you had a good vista experience does not mean everyone else did

remember that just because you had a bad vista experience does not mean everyone else did

[dragon69]

you call crying about the slant of an article a positive lol did you read all the crying at the beginning of these comments positive ? lol

there was a few positve ( or ones that i could learn something from) comments but most were not !

Re: Vista SP2 Beta: More Efficient, But Not By Much

i try and keep my comments positive and i did say that they have fixed most of vista but not as much as microsoft claims

and yes i read both positive and negative comments and articles about vista ( and microsoft and most other things

and try and keep an open mind about most subjects but the positive commentators think that if they keep repeating

their comments someone might believe them but i believe they are sadly mistakenin my hmble opinion

good luck and take care

chuck

btw how much does microsoft pay you to use that avatar ? :-)

[piyushsingh]

i wasnt refering to the article but to your previous posts in various and this article , each of which has more or less the sasme thing and your experiences over vista 64-bit.

If you say so that you are open to both +ve and -ve comments about vista , then be it. There were many flaws in pre- SP1 built and most of them have been fixed by now. Its not that the vista lovers always praise it , they also criticise the bad aspects.

btw - msft doesnt pay me in putting up that avatar. Its my choice , so its there. I have been using vista from about 1.5 yrs now. Was among the early advocates of this new OS. I ve seen days when there were only a few people using it and only about 2-3 regulars on this forum supported in pro-vista talks. Things have changed now , the group has grown , the power of the new features is coming into light. The vista orb is shining and rightly so in my avatar as my choice 1.5 yrs ago to go with this new OS has never let me down. :)

[snorg]

I dont hear much trouble with vista on the forum so vista must be ok for the "average user".

[VHMP01]

I could NOT give up Vista's functionalities and go back to XP's, As an IT manager I have set it up and personalized it for 100 or so computers with a lot of safety features; some users want performance and don't care about looks (done), some care about shine not to be outdated and sacrifice performance (done), in between (done). I was NOT paid by MS to find great features about it, and with Core2Duo and 4Gb of RAM, I have Virtual PCs for Ubuntu, XP, XP lite, Win2003, Win2000, Win98, Win95, Win3.11 and even DOS 6.11.
1.- Performance: right click in My Computer / Properties / Advance / Performance Settings and set ‘Adjust for Best Performance’. Looks will be gone and people would get like Win2000 usability with greatly improved performance.
2.- If you need simple things like “Printers” just one click at Start and type it (if you cannot find the shortcut). Moreover, complex commands like “Regedit”, “Msconfig”, etc. much the same, one click at Start and type it. It cannot be simpler than “One” click.
3.- Indexed file structure helps you find anything, it may take a couple of days at first after you have installed all you applications and files, but once it’s done, makes it pretty quick to find anything. I even indexed the whole C: drive, including 'Program Files' and all.
4.- At any ‘Windows Explorer’ window (Documents, Images, Music, etc.) you have “Filters”, the little black arrow next to “Name, Date, Type” etc. It makes wonders if there are too many files by filtering by 'Type' for example. You can even tag files like photos.
5.- Vista has a great “Compatibility Option” to run old applications from Win 98, 2000, XP, etc. Even Intel Macs do not run OS 9. Why stop time and stay in XP, or 98, or 95, or 3.11? In that matter from Office 2007 to ’03?
We know OS is a “Personal Preference”… the point is PCW critizecing a way for doing something that can be done in an easier way from Vista's beginings. In addition, PCW's 'Not by Much' instead making good points about it, so they have to be either more careful, better informed or both.

[dragon69]

VHMP01
1 Did that and it helped use less resources and ram ( but not much less ram)

2 know that and it is easier but at the same time i installed vista i bought a new printer but had driver problems till 4 or 5 months ago (finally put out 64 bit drivers

3 the indexer kept crashing (message was something like "the indexer service stopped running and has to restart ") still have it off so i am not sure if they fixed it

4 know that and use it

5 know that and use it regularly but why do you have to install most programs as the adminastrator ( it does not matter if it states that it is vista compatible or not but some programs require it and also some don't)

what good is UAC if everyone turns it off so there goes that security aspect lol

and the side bar was causing many crashes too so that is turned off too

i still prefer win xp pro over vista for it's use of less resources and faster file transfers and program capatiblity but that is just mine and most other choice

good luck and take care

chuck

but some good points

[TechieXP]

There are reasons why some programs you install require Administrator access and some don't. One reason is if you are installing a program that is going to install a service; these will require administrator access because these are creating a service that more than likely needs system access to operate.

In most cases games won't need this type of access as they potentially won't wreck havoc on your system.

As you stated not everyone has had a great Vista experience. Truth be told they are the same ones who didn't have a great XP experience either or Windows 9x experience. Most people who have bad experience with Windows create their own problems. Ask any IT guy.

The biggest problem I ran into in Vista was trying to run programs that were designed for Windows XP. Even Vista will not in many cases run programs that have legacy code, meaning they need to run in Windows 9x. In order for a program to run in Vista it must use a 32bit installer. Vista has no legacy coding, thus many Windows 9x programs will fail.

That's why we have programs like VMware and Virtual PC. If you still have a need for old DOS based programs or even many from Windows 9x and you have a PC that has sufficient resources this is an option for backwards compatibility.

No matter what version of Windows you use there will be potential problems. Drivers are an issue always, because ppl expect to just plug and play. It's not Microsoft's job to have a driver for your specific hardware. If you are patient as you should be and wait for full support you won't have a problem. That's why it is good to wait about a year after a new OS is released before you jump up and buy it. This gives developers time to fix installers, patch code and write proper drivers for the new OS.

Most ppl who bought Vista on a PC didn't have problems until they tried installing programs that they shouldn't have in the first place. All programs tell you what version of the OS it will work in. Most users don't even need more 3rd party software to do much as Vista comes with enough already. If people practice safe computing and visited only trusted sites, you would never need spyware and anti-virus. I don't have any installed and I have yet to get an infection.



For browsing I use IE exclusively and have never had any problems. I too have FF3 installed for particular reasons...but it is used 1% of the times. I don't care much about browser speed vs. web compatibility. IE practically guarantee me that.

UAC...people bitched about wanting to know everything that is happening on their PC. Now MS gives you that and now you complain about how it functions. Now MS is changing it again so that you pick how it functions instead.



And comparing Linux and Mac OSx to Windows is played out. First, Linux is only used by what 5% of the market and it is mostly as a server. Mac OSx doesn't have to deal with first, PC's come in 1000's of configurations while Apple creates their own machine and the OS that goes on it. If MS made their won machine it will be the same. Fact Windows will run properly out of the box on all PC's. Problems come in first with integrated hardware. OEM's rewrite drivers based on their motherboard designs so that drivers can locate the said hardware. Which is why you in most cases can't use retail versions of a driver which are written to look for a specified card through the bios? Also all that 3rd party software they install sucks 2. Most people now format the drive and then install Windows fresh and then go to the OEM site and get the drivers. No problems after that. In more then 1/2 the cases the problems pal face with Windows is driver related software related, and their own knowledge of what they are doing. Yes Windows have problems and yes it is exploited here and their. But most comes from user's ignorance. No matter what MS does ppl will find a way to criticize them instead of placing the blame where it should actually be?

64bit vs. 32bit - Until developers actually start writing code for 64bit, there is no benefit of one over the other. Because your 32bit programs still run in 32bit mode. When you load a program that is 32bit on a 64bit OS, it will load into twice the memory address blocks. In some cases it does enhance performance but not enough to justify paying more. If you work with media like photos and video and audio then the benefit is worth the expense.

As far as Windows 7? I won't be jumping ship as Vista works very well. Every time MS makes a new OS you don't have to jump on it. It's going to have problems too. Every version of Windows will have potential problems. But fact is if you following MS's recommendations on proper hardware and software the transition will be less frustrating. Most ppl don't follow instructions because they fell they are the best judge.

THings will never change.

[GetReal]

Post: As you stated not everyone has had a great Vista experience. Truth be told they are the same ones who didn't have a great XP experience either or Windows 9x experience. Most people who have bad experience with Windows create their own problems.

Lots of truth in that comment! Ever think why? Most people will not or can not take the time necessary to become a computer guru as seems most people posting here are. They buy a new computer system and then EXPECT IT TO WORK -- OUT OF THE BOX! Often enough that it should be an embaressment to vendors, including Microsoft, it DOESN't work right. So users try to deal with vendor support >>> major frustration >>> then try to "fix" it themselves, invariably mucking things worse (unless you are blessed as a guru and with tons of patience!). Years ago there was jokes etc., going round from/about varios peoplw who "could not program their VCR." That "joke" is a pretty good reference for computer users, but, computers are now considered as a commodity item, A.K.A. common, reliable and presumably "user friendly." So....



Drivers: Anyone see a problem here in the industry? I do! Example: I have a peripheral attached to my legacy computer, so I go buy a new computer with a new OS >>> some/many periphels now don't work with the new >>> need new drivers, right? So what happens with Microsofts planning here, my item used to work, now it doesn't, after obtaining my new drivers (if ever available and after how long a wait) it finally does >>> no added functionality or eas of use with the new drivers. So, why is it necessary with each new OS to put users through this experience, in that it apparantly doesn't gain them or the user anything and in that there has never been a good explanation from Microsoft that I have seen that presents a rational reason. Why is it asking so much that common elements migrate through to the new? Most but not all this paragraph could equally apply to software. Yes I am aware of the some/many differences in requirements between 16, 32 and 64 bit systems >>> many users are NOT! And should not have to be >>> MS effort at advising users of compatability issues is feeble and one might think this compatability is something deliberatel engineered into the new OS to sell people infatuated with "NEW."



So guru's, quit complaining and/or braging about it, this & that >>> understand where some of the rest of the people are coming from, and, if you are really really as good as you think, then start writing articles or join help groups >>> the rest of us need you despirately.

[VHMP01]

Wow! Get real ‘Getreal’… Is every single Home DVD player compatible with older VHS players? Is every CD player compatible with older LP players? Is every MP3 player compatible with older Cassette players? Is every Minidisc camcorder compatible with Betamax? Is every single application from all software companies compatible with its own predecessors? No, you need to get ‘Adapters’ (in software's case, 'Drivers'). Technology changes within the minute, how are most companies going to know what is next in other companies’ labs? Making Vista (or any OS) Compatible with millions of hardware, software, communications, radios, etc. and performing most functions from home computing to the most sophisticated hospital equipment is not easy, is it?
Anyway, you say it is not the end user’s problem… and I say it again, get real ‘Getreal’! I do not want end users to be IT gurus; but none can drive if they do not understand the basics. Moreover, all those users have had to deal with technology changes in their lives, they all did get the cable that ‘adapted’ or connected their old camcorder to their brand new LCD as an example, and had to deal with image not showing as HD! If not this exact example, another one applies to every single one of them.
Therefore, to NOT understand that change implies ‘change’, and them expecting the tech improvements without it is very silly (I’ll be millionaire if only could program and AntiSilly application!). It is not guru’s stuff; they simply choose not to be aware of change. In addition, as mentioned before, even Intel MACs (not very innovative using every hardware PCs use) cannot run OS9 applications, where is your so-called great caring about compatibility blessed Solution Company? Rotten Apple anyone? I for one have this problem at home with my Graphical Designer spouse!
Back to topic, “But Not By Much”… bad investigation and very biased implications.

[GetReal]

Getreal really responds to your comments: DVD players are not VHS players >>> CD players are not cassete players, etc, different technology and different media so not a good comparason, in spite of that I understand your point, I hope. Different technology requires different solution, is this an understanding of "change" you can accept? What requires "different" drivers? In the beginning of your computer experience I feel confident that you started with a system(s) and eventually had problems of some kind. Result: unless you gained your computer knowledge at the foot of some college PHD) you had both the time, energy, money, interest to investigate, making mistakes and munging, eventually gaining sufficient knowledge so that every effort did't bite you somewhere in the backside. Everyone begins things at the beginning and the present computer industry sometimes provides difficult learning experiences, not many can go back to a classroom. My point being, if someone are a mom home taking care of children or a dad working to support said mom and children, they might not have one or more of the attributes I assigned above to you, having only very limited experience in USING computer (as opposed to FIXING or TROUBLE-SHOOTING problems). Yes people really need to know how to drive a car before attempting to obtain a drivers license, but that analogy simply doesn't apply to my statements as we are talking about mechanics vs drivers. No it should not be the end users sole problem! Manufacturers and venders are making a great many millions of dollars providing goods that, in inappropriate numbers, do not function as intended, and, should be responsible for correction. Correction also includes the idea that something adaptable not necessarily become obsolete on whim. And untrained/non-guru users occasionally "bite the bullet" here.

Example: my old HP printer had "different" drivers provided for Win-2000 and Xp, working fine with both. Vista arrives and now I need yet a 3rd set of drivers >>> all the same capability and user experience for each of the 3 OS. All mine are 32 bit OS, so, not understood why any driver changes were required. Legacy equipment doesn't change, only the software, which ALREADY exists, so what part of each OS and its "new(er)" technology was so radically different from its predicesor that it consistantly killed existing drivers?



You said: all those users have had to deal with technology changes in their lives, true but apparantly missing my point that useless changes produce little good or even goodwill.

Your final comment -- what does this have to do with Windows-7. Actually and/or apparantly, most posts in this forum are off somewhere on a tangent. Mine happens to be that from past experience of Microsoft (and many/various manufacturer's) that in Win-7 I expect some users are going to have a hard time dealing with it (or any new OS) and that the people receiving the $$$ seem to care little. I previously did, including with Vista, and I am certainly not alone.



Getreal is real!

[VHMP01]

Right, companies handing out a product should be responsible for it and its correct functionality (I am not making any excuses for them). However, you did get my point about `change?, users and no IT gurus, and IT technologies and software continuous `changes? (with or without the correct analogies). Vista was a mayor `change? in OSs, and most people did not even realize it, or more correctly, they expected it to `change? everything and nothing at all (if you get me on this one). They did not even care about informing themselves just a bit to avoid trouble, but complained a lot about getting into it (human nature I guess).

So all I am saying is that with the right information this situation would have been avoided a fair bit! On my Experience, Vista is a good solid OS; and as any has its flaws, which have been corrected from start on both sides: MS and 3th parties (newer flaws will show up, and I expect the fix for them). But PCM did not implied it that way, they simply implied crapping on with not as much investigation and informing themselves, as it has been lately!

Nevertheless, we need `change? and need to live with it, and this situation will happen over and over, not just because it is MS.

[ZACommando]

The driver model of Windows Vista was one of the largest things changed in the core of Windows. The majority of BSoDs come from bad driver software, not bad Microsoft software. While you can make the claim that this is Microsoft's fault, it's not Microsoft's fault that companies that make hardware are often not concerned with making anything but "functional" software. Furthermore, this software does not go through rigorous testing with a huge amount of software products because the hardware manufacturer simply cannot afford it. As such, you end up with poorly written drivers that are prone to crashing.

The goal of the new driver model was to make Vista more secure by moving the driver farther up Vista's many layers and segmenting it off from other kernel functions. The result is fewer BSoD's (with the exception of NVidia graphics drivers circa 2007). Fewer BSoDs means fewer angry users which means fewer reports to Microsoft. So it is in Microsoft's best interest to fix and/or remove bad software designs. Why should they make software that can run perfectly fine on a $500 computer work on a computer that cost $500 5 years ago? According to Moore's Law, a computer now is approximately 6 times more powerful than a 5 year old computer. If you can't afford a $500 computer, you probably shouldn't be buying a $300 piece of software.

In reference to your old HP printer, the driver had to be rewritten because of the different driver model in Vista. In addition, Microsoft has made a bold move by mandating that any drivers that are going to be certified for Windows Vista must come in 32 and 64-bit varieties. Therefore, HP all but had to create another driver, regardless of the capabilities of the driver.

[GetReal]

Well ZAC' that is as good an explanation as have ever had, for Vista and for manufacturers. Never having had a BSOD because of printers this still leaves questions in my mind regarding why this has always applied to new OS's, especially in that Win-2000 and Xp were similar except in the UI, even having the same kernal (the only BSOD I recall was when Vista adamantly kept trying to install 64-bit drivers for my new Diamond video card while the OS was 32-bit, and there were things where no driver was installed).

While Microsoft includes very many drivers with the install CD do they actually write these they include, likely only manufacturers? I suppose there is actually some reason but I still stipulate those reasons were probably/mostly put in place for arbitrary ideas that didn't much take into account user frustration (or even manufacturers expense account in driver development/testing or the necessity of "forcing" 64-bit, but that aspects not really my concern).

Maybe I missed something in reading this original article as it seemed informative to me and without such serious bias as to cause the storm of bashing seen here.



Thanks to all for the comments.

[dragon69]

{size:2}but
it cost companies big bucks to develope drivers and then they pay to
have then certified by micro$oft and then micro$oft changes the
driver model and then the companies have to spend more money
developing drivers again and then they pay micro$oft again to certify
them ( if micro$oft changed the driver model they should have offered
these companies an incentive to develope new drivers to meet their
new driver models in my humble opinion){size}

{size:2}btw
micro$oft does not make any drivers ( or most of them anyways) or
else the expense would fall on thier ( micro$oft's ) shoulder ! do
you see microsoft developing any drivers after they changed the
driver model . . . no i don't think so ! the companies are getting
sick of being pushed around ( and so are we little people that
micro$oft does not listen too ) . in my humble opinion micro$oft has
got to listen to us and the companies if they want to stay
competitive in the future ( like 5 years or so) as linux and other
operating systems will take the lead if they don't{size}

{size:2}i
wonder how much micro$oft consulted the companies before they pushed
this "great new more secure " operating systems in my
humble opinion not very much. they just told companies that the
driver model is changing and this is the way they will have to
develope new drivers ( and i bet the companies like that lol) and how
much they will have to pay to get micro$oft to certify them{size}

{size:2}micro$oft
is the big bully and right now there is not much the companies or us
can do about it but in the near future we may have more choices in
OS {size}

{size:2}right
now linux's biggest problem is that their are to many varieties of
the OS so i think that if they want to become a serious competitor to
micro$oft they need to unify ( or cut down the number some) their OS {size}

{size:2}right
now redhat and ubuntu are just starting to make some in roads but i
have found that doing most stuff in linux easier as i hate going to
the comand promt in micro$oft ( more often ) or linux ( less often
for me ) {size}

gl and tc e1

chuck

[TechieXP]

I understand your frustration with drivers. When MS makes a new OS, OEM's and developers all get a free kit to help them with developement. MS also makes drivers. In fact, if you setup your system with MS recommended hardware, you will never need 3rd party drivers. When you install Windows as long as the hardware is on their compatibility list, the generic driver will be included on the installation CD. The ones that don't make it is because they didn't the RTM release. For a company like ATI or Logitech which has 1000's of devices it poses a problems. Each brand new OS has different code. Many of XP's drivers do work in Vista if you know how to install them properly. In many cases you can't use the installer, but if you can extract the installer then you can install from the driver folder.

As far as your comment on consumer an there role in making a purchase. A computer is a very sophiticated device. much like you car is. Some people even to this day don't even know how to change a spare tire. Dispite the internet and even teh book that comes with the car tells you how. You don't need to be a guru. Any electronic device can potentially have problems. Things will go wrong and most companies offer pretty good support. But many aren't even good with support for their own devices. THere is a wealth of information online that can help with many issues even on MS's website. your phrase EXPECTING it to work goes without saying. Well when we get married we expect our mates to love use for better or worse, but it doesn't always happen does it? At this point finding excuses for consumers just doesn't cut it. I was able to teach myself how to troubleshoot problems just using the step by step wizards in Windows.

When it comes to a machine you need to learn how it functions. You bought it, so if smething goes wrong you should want to know how to fix it. Depending on someone else to do it, can llater cost you lots of money.

THink about that story on PCWORLD about the issue with the 915 chipset from Intel. Sure MS relaxig protocols makes them part of the blame. But consumers who don't read before they buy bring on their own problems. When you buy teh machine you accept what comes with it. We don't live in a perfect world. An as mentioned most problems are cause by the user.

I see it as, if the machine is to complicated for you to have...maybe you shouldn't have it. Everyone wants to find someone to blame. MS gives full recommendations for how to have a good experience with there software. If you follow teh instructions you will have way less problems. out of 90% of Windows users only 30 or so always seem to have problems. So dos that means teh other 60% are all Guru's? I doubt it.

An as someone stated, everytime MS releases a new OS you don't have to run out an buy it. In most case many don't even need too. MS even says if what works for you stay with it. Sure not everyone is an IT guy. Sure I am one, but I didn't go to college for it. I taught myself because I wanted to learn bec I didn't want someone else to solve probles for me. I got tired of having to call OEM's with problems all the time. Which in most cases I was teh cause of teh problem. The idea is to learn from you mistakes. Most don't. Sucks for them.

When Windows 7 is released, the same problems you speak of now will just be rehashed. Hardware that doesn't work, software that won't work and on and on.

There are options. Linux? Is an option but even if Windows wasn't as huge Linux would still suffer. Mac OS is the best option, but I can tell you now it isn't ready and has never been ready for enterprise usage. And ppl have probles with Macs too. But you don't hear about it bec Mac's don't flood the market, PC's does.

My experience is, if you want a good experience go with companies that have a good repuatation with their systems like Dell or Compaq/HP. I built my own system and it is easy enough for ANYONE to do if the just have good motor skills. If you are a person who can't chew gum and walk straight at the same time then it isn't a thing for you to try. If you can't change a flat tire ot put together a simple cabinet or chair then this isn't for you.

Windows does work problems of breakage are users who just use teh pc for anything an everything. downloading BS programs and cracks and hacks. OEM's who install cheesy software that you usually don't need and 3rd party applications that are poorly wriiten. It MS's job to make sure Windows will work on a PC, it is not there job to make sure it works with 3rd party appz and hardware. Thats teh individual develepers job. MS provides teh tools, its up to developers to use them effectively to deliver a good experience.

Just liek any other thing you buy you get waht you pay for and sometimes you don't. Many naes are comon to provide good quality hardware and software. if you stick with them you tend to have less problems.

I prefer Intel over AMD. I prefer ATI or Nvidia..i prefer Creative over any other sound...i use MS appz where possible and i use Adobe. Yes they cost more in many cases, but they are better and if you want to have a good experience it comes at a cost. Mist ppl try to go teh cheap way out and get burned...and then they want to blame MS.

[TechieXP]

GETREAL - I'm trying to understand if you have a 32bit OS installed, why would it try to install a 64bit driver? Are you sure you're not trying to force the 64bit install? Are you sure you downloaded the 32bit version and not 64bit version of the driver? Are you sure you don't have a 64bit version of the OS installed? It sounds fishy.

Also as regards to drivers, the ones that come on teh RTM installation CD are certified and tested by MS. The are generic meaning they support the basic functionality of the device. Of added support you need the retail version of the driver. Hardwares like video cards and sound cards always have extended features. MS doesn't support this with a generic driver. But teh device will work based on its core desigation. As mentioned developers write crappy drivers. I have even seen ATI drivers that when installing say that these drivers aren't certified by MS. That is an indication to me to stop and use teh old driver until they are certified. If you always use what S recommends you will in fact have no BSOD and no other error messages.

But instructions don't matter if you never read them. Ppl just click click click. JUst like they sign sign sign. That's why consumers get screwed over so easy. While everyone is wasting tie downloading video and music, they could be making wise use of it rwading about a potential product they plan to buy. I see women read ore on clothes then technology. For men its a no brainer to read up on this stuff and many of them don't. I don't feel sorry for them. How hard is it to go to www.microsoft.com/whatevertheproductnamesis and read?

As mentioned ppl dont care to educate themselves. why? bec teh outlet is poorly wriiten laws that allow to to push blame somewhere else. The reason most ppl crash their pc is bec they drive the pc while drunk.