[TechieXP]

VHM and ZAC I get all the analogies and I agree with you both. But these are the same ppl who in Feb will complain they didn't know the country was switching to HDTV. And they will blame the Feds for not spending anough money to alert consumers.

People don't pay attention to change.

When it comes to PC experience, no 2 pc's will ever me truly the same even if you buy and identical one. The experience reflects teh users. Just like in relationships men and women ask why can't i find a good person to be with. Well maybe because you're not a good person to be with. Sure good ppl can end up with a bad person. Just like even a well informed person can still make a bad buy. But it is less likely with time. If you're desperate you will always make a bad judgement call. How many ppl we know like to make decisions at the last minute? When it is a life effecting decision you need to inform yourself and with easy access to the internet there is no reason you can't make one on any topic. Even relationships. The problem is ppl dont like being told how to make decisions bec they feel they are the best to make teh call. Yes it may be true in most cases but not all.

I am indeed informed on the issues with Windows, but MS isn't to blame. Like right now, SP2 for Vista isn't even complete. How many ppl do you think downloaded it and are going to be upset when something breaks and they can't fix it. And how many will say, i didn't realize it was a beta. Or who don' even know what beta means? Or how many are going to be pissed when MS says now that SP2 is complete for those who downloaded teh beta you will still need to install the final release...and complain they have to install it twice? The cycle is never ending bec ppl can be clueless to a fault...usually their own.

[dragon69]

not all countries are changing to HDTV just one is in feb but not mine ! how much does micro$oft charge to test and certify the drivers that a manufacture makes ?

not all the drivers on the cd's and dvd's work as in the past their has been a lot of trouble with the drivers provided by the cd's or dvd's ( depend on which version of windoze we are talking about as vista is

released in dvd only and all the old stuff was mostly cd's and a few boot floppies for the really old stuff lol)

if a company releases something (weather it is software or hardware they should provide a good level of

support and when micro$oft ignores most peoples complaints and forces everyone to upgrade with out a

choice i would not call that good support) they will have to listen to what their customers if they want to continue to sell us products

when you start ignoring the customers then you will lose them but right now micro$oft does not have any real competition (yet but in

a few years they will and maybe then it will be to late to listen to us)

most problems should be easy to fix but micro$oft does not make it easy to find all the solutions on their knowledge base ( yes the search function does help sometimes but not often enough imho)

good luck and take care



chuck

btw i treid the search function in vista and it still causes a crash how come they can not fix that

[TechieXP]

You said not all CD/DVD drivers on the MS Install CD worked? I don't know of any...show us. As you said, Windows Vista came on a DVD only. Which means if the laptop of desktop didn't have a DVD drive then it probably could't run Vista anyways. All optical drives use a generic IDE interface which means they use the same interface that IDE hard disks used. they all use ATAPI which allows CD/DVD's to boot like a harddisk. If a certain hardware you had didn't work, but yet everyone elses did, that is a manufacturer problem not a MS problem.

MS provides a good level of support. I have even got help with stuff that wasn't even their. Every proble you experience in Windows is up for MS to support. For example the BSOD. if you set your machine properly, it can be set that when you get this screen it doesn't reboot automatically. This will tell you exactly where teh problem is and what caused it. Possible causes? Bad drivers, or bad hardware, or bad hardware configuration. I seldom see software cause this unless it directly works with hardware. I have seen it happen when scanning in the old days and even with printeres. Bad memory is #1 culprit with any BSOD's.

Having done some MS tech support through a 3rd party company I know for a fact, more then 1/2 of the problem associated with Windows are even Windows based issues. Why? People haven't even learned to siply read the error message and see what teh details tell you teh problem came from. They just simply call MS and cry. Windows is design to alert you of problems on a wide scale. They aren't all Windows related.

And your search issue? it appears you're teh only one that sees to be having this problem. Think back to when it was working, and think of what you may have did before it stopped. Did you turn off any services that the search service requires?

Most of Windows related problems are fixiable and can easily be found on Microsoft's sute. Windows Vista and XP both show error numbers when it is a Windows related error and you can simply search that error number. I do find the microsoft help site has to much information at times, but it isn't imossibly to find what applies to you.

I think you're just looking for your own reason to justify what you're saying. I just feel you're crying for no reason.

MS can't possibly make available every request users ask for. In fact I don't even know of any company that does. For one if they did you couldn't afford teh product no matter who makes it. Soe request are just stupid. If you're asking MS to make a program that never crashes. Can't be done. Asking them to include stupid features that only benfit you and not teh masses, can't be done. Even when they do listen and crete what ppl ask they still compalin. For example, many things that work in Windows work behind the seens. Ppl wanted a utlity that tells the everything. So MS invented UAC. Now ppl complain about it popping up boxes for things they could care less about. OK,...but that si what you asked for. The progrma has no way of kowing what you want personally. Now they are retooling itso you provide teh choice in Windows 7. Guess what, bet ppl find something wrong even then.

MS can't no more please everyone than you can. Even whn they try ppl are to critical of them. Either use what they offer or don't. Fact is no one has nothing better. Mac isn't better...if it was they would have 90% of teh market. Were they not first? Linux definitely isn't close to even being called good enough...but that is my opinion. They are all the same...but one is better obviously. Some ppl can use Linux...one person says linux is so much better...ok...so why isnt there any linux appz being sold? Why is it developer dont make appz for mac or linux on a large scale. Its not just bec Windows is used more...it is because when it comes to tools and ease of use Windows is best. Is it the best OS is a matter of opinion. It certainly offers more choice then the other combine.d..

I do feel Windows can be a bit better expecially for ppl who don't know what they are doing anyways. But these are teh same ppl who don't understand how a grocery store is setup. Why is it one type of item that seems to go togther all the way on theother end...so that you pick from items in between on the way.

And Money isn't the answer. if it was, then teh fed could just print money until the USA was out of debt. One thing that would in fact solve the problems with Windows, is if MS didn't license Windows to OEM's and just made their own PC. Like Apple does. Then you will see just how much better Windows would be. In fact we can come very close to doing so:

First buy your own PC parts and build a good non-branded PC. Buy a retail untouched copy of Windows...and make sure you use software designed for the OS you are using. All problems would practically be solved. In this day, a 10 year old can build a pc bec I watch one do it with my own eyes. Everything is color coded and u simply cant screw it up unless you're stupid. (not you - a general you).

Windows isn't as bad as some say...and everytime MS makes a move ppl are so bitter. They should do this or that. First off if you think you can do a better job, why not go an apply for one? In fact why not start up your own company? Why not make a better OS. Linux us free and it isn't better. All thes eMS haters could programs or develop something better. They can;t because better has been done. Anything else would be a poor copy. Id Ubuntu better then Windows...sure if you like gadgets and games...not if you want a true workhork coputer. If you just want internet, email and a simple word processor then any OS could be better on some level. But if you need reworld usage nothing can even touch Windows. Not even MACS. If you think they are better, try it and see, Even with Vista's bad rep, you don't see that many jumping to get a mac. Price aside they know macs dont offer what you get with a pc.

[GetReal]

Certainly have Vista 32-bit home premium on my computer, actually confirmed this after reading your skeptical post about my experience. So, the sequence of events as I remember. Bought an HP computer with Vista pre-installed, on arrival I immediately changed the supplied video with a new Diamond model more to my preference than what HPsold, MY mistake--but thinking that as with previous versions of windows it would find the new hardware and ask for driver CD. Actually it would not even boot, getting constant "halt" condition. Worked with HP tech support in 3 instances, trying their suggestions and providing them symptoms, etc. No resolution. Finally suggested I remove video card and/or "restore" Vista, so did only the restore and in the process found that Vista, on it's own, had installed 64-bit drivers, only at this point system did not have the "halt" but first complained then produced a BSOD. Had to then remove my card, restore Vista, boot the system, then only re-install my card with 32-bit drivers from the CD that came with the card.

Just another dumb, uninformed user that was too lazy to educate himself or read online info, right!

Anyway, that problem was truly my fault but compounded by Vista. Next: drivers for both my HP and Brother printers (done), drivers for my HP photo scanner (not done-no drivers yet), drivers for my webcam (4 month wait-finally done), drivers for my graphics tablet-done-after 2 attempts), install PC-cillin, configure settings for internet & DSL, reboot and system immediatly wants to download MS updates plus PC-cillin updates, I allow, system trundles along doing its thing, start install MS updates--system freezes! From this point I went through variations of the above 5 times total before getting a stable system, it has now worked for about 5 months. Not a guru here but have consistantly had PC type computers since early DOS days--many/most have given me problems with each new OS--some certainly my fault, others equally certainly not! This long involvement covering various factory computers and two that even I assembled (one from a CP/M days kit of parts. But then I am just disinterested and/or not adaptable to making technical changes in my life. Right!

I won't go further into this tale were I had to install software--finding drivers and/or buying new or discovering that Vista produces no productivity gains over Xp, as every person on this forum except me likely has had perfect experiences with all their PC involvement!

[dragon69]

i said not all the drivers offered on the cd and dvd did not work (in the past versions of windoze i meant)you changed it around to not all cd /dvd drivers work
check it out ( or in your words LEARN TO READ lol)
opitical drives come in either sata or eide interfaces nowadays

the indexer(will do a quick search to see if i am the only one having problems with it) problem was not my fault as many other vista users reported that it crashed their computers too alldid was install vista home premium and it did not work from the get go first crash in the first week

support.microsoft.com/kb/952093

[http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/20244-vista-experince-index-crash.html]

[http://forum.wininizio.it/lofiversion/index.php/t74482.html]

these are mostly for laptops but see i am not the only one having problems with it

and after 2 months of crashes i did finally turn it off and the crashes slowed down quite a bit and my pc speed picked up some too



my machine is supposed to be vista capable ( i biult it a year ago and did many hours of research ( and i read a lot on the internet to make sure it was and even ran the vista cd with the program to see if my system was able to run it and it passed

my machine and all things were brand new and not refurbished

amd x2 4200 2 gb ddr2@667 (not matched sticks but both the same speed and timings) 250 gb hdd ( seagate the 7200.10 model but was the latest the had at the time as the 7200.11 came out about 3 or 4 months after my build 21 inch HP A4576A (made by Sony for HP) CRT antec 450 watt power supply ( did not want to go with a cheapy or generic model as that could cause a lot of problems down the line) amd a msi (88 dollar) mother board

gl and tc

chuck

[TechieXP]

I didn't say your experience with PC's was based on being informed or not. I can't say y experiences has been totally flawless. Just not serious. Example: I purchased a Sapphiretech Radeon 1650 video card. Windows Update for Vista keeps trying to identify it as an Asus brand same model. My motherboard has 2 nics and a wireless. Even though both nics are made by teh same company, the installation CD doesn;t have the driver for both. I found out the second one was not certified by MS. However installing Windows Vista SP1 it has the driver now.

As far as your issue with branded PC's? The video card was it an integrated one? and you were switching to a retail one? If so, most web sites suggest...going into the bios and disabling teh integrated card before installing a new one.

I am not saying what you said didn't happen. I also agree that it shouldn't.

As far as drivers I can't discuss them much. Fact is MS can't possibly have or make them for every hardware and they aren't suppose to. They didn't make the hardware. Drivers aren't easy to wite. To this day Nvidia still patches drivers for Windows XP and Vista to help fix compatibility issues. The issue in most cases is hardware copatibility, not Windows compatibility. How do you know? In many cases if you take a quick peak at what is being fixed in the update it has to do with conflict with games or hardware. Means thats not a MS problems.

Yes as you seems to have, you're not alone with issues in Windows. I don't think everyone including myself is saying Windows is perfect and with flaws. I even admit there are plenty. You seem to have soe idea as to what you are doing on some level. At least you were willing to try to figure out how to fix it. But there will be mnay who will not have teh issues you did and some that will be worse.

My point was simply...Windows itself has few issues of its own...added to teh fact OEM and developers add to teh problem with bad software. drivers especially. I however can't relate to your specific problem.

[dragon69]

remember getreal it can not be micro$oft fault as according to techiexp they can never do no wrong it must be us doing the wrong



micro$oft has never made a mistake in producing an operating system according to techiexp we just can never do anything right


sarcastically speaking


good luck and take care



chuck

[TechieXP]

LOL...You're so funny.

If you look at any forum the top 3 rpoblems with Vista.

1. Hardware - Microsoft cause some fault by caving into Intel and relaxing specs and saying Vista can run on 915 Chipset when it in fact couldn't. However even in cases where this was not an issue, ppl were trying to install Vista on systems Designed for XP. As far as new systems, MS said on all packages of Vista that certain features of Vista required better hardware. For the full Aero experience, Microsoft said plainly a dedicated graphics solution was highly recommended. Which means any laptop/desktop with an integrated solution would not work well. That seems like simple english.

2. Application - Many of Windows XP applications are written with legacy code. They won't work natively in Vista. Vista requires and application to have a 32bit installer. Which is why many appz fail to install. If you application says Designed for XP why would you expect it to work in Vista. Most that did have 32bit installers didn't work because they weren't designed to work with Aero. In some cases turning off Aero solved teh problem. But in most case MS's own appz didn't even work. Why they were to old in some cases. Like many were still using Office XP (2002) and Office 2000. Even those Office XP was 32bit...it had lots of 16bit code so it could work in older versions of Windows including Windows 98. If you notice Office 2003 requires XP or better. Even Office 2003 had issues if you were using it with installing SP2 of the software. This was also manetion on MS site, plus the progarms MS makes to check your system would have told you which programs would work in Vista and what they require to do so. Anti-virus programs also broke. Anti-virus programs requires system level access to files that way it can scan system files. Vista being more secure meant access was diferent. so these appz broke in Vista. However Norton did release update almost instantly to fix. I even saw someone mention Office 2007 didn't work in Vista. Office 2007 uses some Vista code I can't see how it didn't. I didn't see lots of threads mention problems but there were some. In some cases installing Office after installing Vista corrected teh problem. This has been an issue with upgrading Windows with Office installed. Bec office also copies files to the system folder that run with the core if teh OS. Sometimes teh versions replaced by an OS upgrade causes an issue. Thats why a repair install which placed the original file back solves teh problem in most cases. This is why we usually suggest install teh OS fresh vs upgrading.

3. As always drivers. When Vista was in Beta many companies were making beta drivers to test hardware. Not all hardware was support in Vista bec these hardware have outdated features. MS makes a list of compatible hardware that all can check before moving to an OS. Just bec it worked in XO doesn';t mean it should in Vista. I think soeone mentioned a webcam didnt work. I had one that didn't either, I simply took a chance and installed XP's driver to tie me over until Vista version was released. The older the hardware teh longer the wait. New hardware gets priority. Even logitech stated that many hardwares they have they weren't working on Vista drivers for them. But so many people complained that for many including webcams they went ahead and did so out of fear of losing customers.

Resource hog. This was the biggest complaint. I even complained because on a fresh install Vista was using 500MB of ram and 30% of my CPU power. Well Let me see on the box of Vista it says 1GHZ CPU and 500MB of ram and 32B video card. Mnay sites i saw said these specs were not high enough to acheieve good pc experience even in the Release Candidates. Ppl read teh box and matched it to there PC specs and figured there system specs matched so it was good enough. I relaize not everyone is tech savvy, but if you are sure their was plenty of info around. Most sites including your OEM's had links are you Vista Ready? This llink to you to download MS adviosry toold to check your own system. How many ppl you think tried it? Most ppl stated 1GB of ram wasn't nearly enough. 2GB of better was highly recommended. a 32mb video card...even Basic version struggle with it, but it does work. But if you are a hardcore gamers then you know 128 or more is better. Wven to watch DVD movies 64MB or better is recommended.

Vista was rushed out and it wasn't ready, but yet many users had and are having a good experience. people who shied away because of bad press are learning Vista is quite good. Most smart buyers have learned it is best to wait until the release of the first Service Pack before buying. Soething they learned with Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Some learn some don't.

Windows id far from perfect and MS does need to stand up and provide better support for their product. And we as consumers need to do some research on our own. PC are simple enough to understand if you just read. It doesn't mean you won't have any problems, but you will have less. I have found that OEM's system are plaqued with teh most problems. The best thing about ordering direct is you can tell teh OEM. I want a system with Windows and drivers only and no 3rd party software. They have to give you what you ask for, and you will have no problems...or very few.

Problem is ppl like to harp on bad things. There are way more good things to Windows then bad crap all the time. The world is a bad place to, but if I could just opt to go to another planet I would and so would others. And the problems we left would soon follow. Which is exactly what would happen if we all jumped to Mac OS or Linux.

Why do you think Windows in teh office has less problems then at home. For one users aren't allowed to install crappy software. IT ppl only use certified accept hardware by MS. And the rigorously test programs in their enviroment and work out as many issues before accepting something as usuable. Home users don't do none of that. Maybe they shouldn't have to. But any purchase has buyer responsibility and more expensive and technical in nature the ore potential for problems.

We all would love to have a perfect PC. It isn;t going to happen anytime soon. So do what is best for yourself. If Windows was as bad as some say it is, they wouldnt have 90% of themarket. You cant force ppl to do what they dont want to do. There are enough benefits for me to deal with the drawbacks, they all have them.

[dragon69]

BUT VISTA is trailing by quite a bit this is from this link

http://marketshare.h...e.aspx?qprid=10
|marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+XP Windows XP|66.31%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+Vista] Windows Vista|20.45%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=MacIntel] MacIntel|6.51%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Mac+OS] Mac OS|2.35%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+2000] Windows 2000|1.56%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Linux] Linux|0.83%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+NT] Windows NT|0.77%|
|[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=iPhone] iPhone|0.37%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+98] Windows 98|0.29%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+ME] Windows ME|0.17%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+CE] Windows CE|0.05%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Pike] Pike|0.05%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Unknown] Unknown|0.05%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=iPod] iPod|0.05%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Hiptop] Hiptop|0.03%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Series60] Series60|0.03%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=PSP] PSP|0.02%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=PLAYSTATION+3] PLAYSTATION 3|0.02%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Nintendo+Wii] Nintendo Wii|0.01%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Win64] Win64|0.01%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=FreeBSD] FreeBSD|0.01%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=Windows+95] Windows 95|0.01%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=SunOS] SunOS|0.01%|
|http://marketshare.hitslink.com/siteimages%5Ctrend.gif[http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustom=SoftBank] SoftBank|0.00%|

[dragon69]

so from this i think that vista is not so great and most people prefer win xp and this also shows that vista is not that far ahead of macs

vista has 1/3 the market share that win xp does and that macs have 1/3 the market share that vista does

but yes micro$oft ( the bully) does control about 89.6 % of the total market but at there current pace how long will it last!

if they continue to ignore most of their customers not long in my humble opinion but if they start listening to us it may last quite a bit longer.

if anyone wants to keep selling a product (weather hardware or software) they need to listen to us little people instead of telling us what is

good for us or what we can eat or what we can read or for that matter what we can play ( DRM controlled file ie music or videos) as other countries around the world have different copyright rules ( laws i mean )

Merry Xmas and have a Happy New Year everyone

chuck

[alexb]

my brother runs vista and we are having problems. the control panel window and sub windows do not work and the image preview program does not display the pictures properly- the pictures looks distorted or like barcodes! vista is pretty (thats what made me excited about it), but overall kind of sucks in practice. it feels like beta software. XP just works. the GUI is rather plain but everything else pretty ( much works as planed. it boots quick too. Microsoft tried too much with vista. they tried to improve so much on XP and add a slew of cool new features that they kind of lost track of size and efficiency.
i hope Win 7 is lessons learned for Microsoft and that it will all work as planned as Xp did
btw i have 2 vista machines (32 and virtual 64 SP1), XP pro 64 SP3 and OSX 10.5.5

[TechieXP]

Barcodes? When was teh last time you checked your system to see if you have an infection? Oh go ahead mac fans you all dont have problems. Mac gets 21 security udates. some similar to the ones we just got.

[jtimouri]

Vista is stable, is much better after SP1. The reason why people do not like it and why it is a failure commercially is obvious - no one likes to go out and buy a new computer, top line processor, 4 gb of RAM, only to discover that it runs more slowly than an older computer they have. Vista is slow on every machine I have it installed on. I don't know why this is the case, but the only way for me to get acceptable results with it is to spend a lot of time disabling whatever I can disable.

Some people say "you are just going back to XP" with all the disabling, but I don't think that is the case. All I know is that I hate every minute I have to waste getting Vista in shape, I read every article in every magazine I can find that talks about how to speed up Vista. Right now I am expecting delivery of two different Lenovo laptops and I am dreading the work I have to do over a couple of days.

I know some people who are running Windows 98 and are "perfectly happy". The market shows that Vista has been a failure, no matter how many smiles the users are supposed to have.

[rtfire1]

xp pre sp2 made me a lot of money the compy I was working for on the weekends would bet paid a lot of money to de xp a pc to the point we would work to 20 hour days to try tostay on top of things. we where installing me and 98se like crazy for schools and small companies with no on site it department. Vistas great I have had no issuesother then not reading about how to do things in the new os.

[rgreen4]

Dragon69 - the figures you quote and reference prove you wrong. You pronounce the second most popular operating system a failure? By what standards? If it is the fact that after two years in the market place it has failed to replace XP as the dominant version of Windows? Then how do you rate the 31 versions of Linux which when combined after 25 years of development screams by with less than 1%? Even Windows 98SE and 2000Pro some 7 years after being replaced by XP, have a market share more that twice that of all Versions of Linux. The figures you quote from market share are GLOBAL rates rather than the similar US market share rates reported by Gartner, but there the US percentage of Vista was at 26%. The market share rates also include cell phones and game consoles, but they are so minor as to be not material.

Windows XP spend 5 long years as the greatest and latest Windows OS on the market, the longest of any Windows product in the company's history. Gartner then took the step to compare the market percentage of XP 21 months after release compared to Vista 21 months after release, and Vista's percentage of Windows was greater at the same point in it's life cycle.

So, if 20% of market share is a failure, how would you rate Ford? They come in second to GM, third if you include Toyota. I guess they just ought to throw in the towel and cease production, lay everyone off and fade into history. Maybe Avis should do the same thing since they are second perennially to Hertz.

Nonsense, the Vista percentage graphs which you so nicely provided, show Vista increasing and XP decreasing. As older PC's are retired and newer ones purchased, the slopes will steepen and Vista will replace XP. History shows that most upgrade packages that are sold, are sold in the early months of a release, after that, it's new installations. Now, if XP is in such hot demand, maybe you can explain why almost six months after the cessation of commercial availability of XP from Microsoft, both Newegg and TigerDirect have XP in stock and it's even cheaper than the Vista alternatives.

[rgreen4]

I would invite you to start a post on your problems. It could be a graphics issue, but the fact that you cannot get into control panel suggests a malware infection of some type. There are many experienced members who help others with these problems, but they avoid discussions like this and will not see your post. Simply [click here|c-2000] and then click on the discussion button to start the question about your system. Describe the problem in as great a detail as you can and give the make and model of your machine. Also include any modifications and updates you have made.

[dragon69]

why would i quote us market shares as i am not from the usa and many here are not from the usa after all this is a global community not just for americans ( or does pc world only allow usa citizen to post on their forums?)

some good points but your reply does not reflect that vista is as great as some are stating ( maybe not you but some vista lovers believe just because they had a good vista experience that it is the "greatest os ever" and that it is leading the market shares but my links state that vista is doing ok but " it is not the greatest os ever lol" as after two years it only shows small gains and if it was the greatest os ever then it should be taking the market shares by a larger number imho



and the ford and chevy anology is good to but when ( in the next couple of years if your government does not bail it out) toyota owns chevy will you still be saying that it is still the market leader or will you count it as a toyota right now many models with the chevy name plate on them are produce by other companies ( dodge does this quite a bit too but i think ford does this the lease amount ) so some of that market shares that you think chevy has are really toyota and other makers shares ( if you count the original maker of the cars or trucks instead of what name plate is finally put on it ) so if you take away all the toyotas and other makes that they sell under their name plate are they still the leaders? so who should throw in the towel a company that mostly sell their own makes or one that will sell any make that they can put their name plate on?

Merry Xmas

gl and tc

chuck

[dragon69]

my third paragraph was just to state that your anology was mute

so if you drive a chevy check and see if it was actually made by them or nissan or toyota

[rgreen4]

Actually I drive a Chrysler Mini-Van (mfg by Chrysler in Canada) and a Dodge 3/4 Pickup (mfg by Chrysler in Michigan). While Chevy did market small vehicles mfg by a joint venture in California (GM and Toyota), I don't think they do any longer. Of course one could argue the Toyotas manufactured on those same lines were 1/2 Chevys. :^0

No, the point is that Vista at this point in it's cycle (22 months after release, is greater than the percentage that XP had 22 months after it's release. I actually waited 3 years after XP's release before I installed it. I actually bought the machine earlier than that, removed the HD, installed a new one and installed Windows 2000 Pro, having fallen for all the anti-XP hype. This time I did not fall for it.

I have Vista on a desktop that was an HP supplied upgrade from XP Media Center Edition, a laptop that came from HP with Vista, and a custom built desktop on which I have Vista HP, XP Pro and at times Win2K Pro. I used this machine mostly for experimentation in answering members questions, but would up using the Vista installation 95% of the time (each installation on a separate HD, using the F12 boot menu to select the HD to boot from), and only use the XP install rarely. Early experimentation (with several other members who have dual boot machines) proved that the boot times of Vista and XP, both with a clean install, with proper drivers has an insignificant difference, with Vista actually beating XP by a few seconds on all three machines. All three machines were custom/home build, one in Georgia, one in Pennsylvania and one in India. Of the three, I know two are almost always booted into Vista, and I think one is primarily booted into XP because of games.

But, I also take the postion that if someone has a machine running XP, is not having any problems with it, and it is performing the job they want done, there is no benefit to upgrade. Too many times, people want the latest and greatest, and spend more than they need to. I am also probably in this mode having 5 active machines at the current time, not really needing more than two, but it is a lot of fun to build a new machine, even if I don't actually need one.

[VHMP01]

@rgreen4. Why not use Virtual PCs instead of so many dual boots? I have one for Ubuntu, XP simulating OSX, Win2003, Win2000, XP, XP lite, Win98, Win95, Win3.11 and even DOS 6.22.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-_yewoYsOX4