[PCWorld]

Post your comments for New Dell Laptop: Thinner Than Air? here

[spaul40]

It's not how thin the Apple MacBook Air is. It's fashionable to own a Mac product. Why else would people pay much more for the hardware than it is worth (and don't tell me they use higher quality components - you can purchase the highest quality components made in quantities on one and still be cheaper than a Mac). Yes, OS-X is great but the hardware is a rip!

[Momma]

I agree with the previous commenter that it's fashionable to own a Mac - but it's also fashionable to own a Dell! I predict this one will be a hit! It may just be our next laptop! :)
Momma
Feature blogger at Engineer a Debt Free Life (lots of freebies, bargains, and money saving tips)
http://www.engineeradebtfreelife.com

[wrathforger]

Alienware FTW.

[TechieXP]

Whatever it ends up being i a willing to bet that it will have a CDROM. $2700 and no CD integrated even as a slot load I think was a bad call. Especially for $2700. So since PC hardware is cheap except laptop hardware bec it has to be smaller...what is the extreme cost of the Air? The design is elegant and beautiful make no mistake...I rather have an Alienware..more for the same cost.

[TechieXP]

I was just thinking...to make something just as thin or thinner would mean sacrificing something. Come on Dell...show Apple it can be done.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}It's not how thin the Apple MacBook Air is. It's fashionable to own a Mac product. Why else would people pay much more for the hardware than it is worth (and don't tell me they use higher quality components - you can purchase the highest quality components made in quantities on one and still be cheaper than a Mac). Yes, OS-X is great but the hardware is a rip!{quote}

Why is it that no one can ever provide examples of the widespread, disingenuous claim of Apple offering overpriced hardware? It's a lot like the all too common claim that Linux is not user friendly enough for people to use. Both claims were once true, perhaps, but have long since ceased being so.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}$2700 and no CD integrated even as a slot load I think was a bad call. Especially for $2700.{quote}

What is this $2700 laptop to which you refer? The most expensive version of the Air, complete with 128 GB SSD is only $2500.

[Tayan]

Thinner laptops would look cool !!!
I would buy it.
http://www.tebuzznew.com

[lerxst]

Ok. I will. The 15" MacBook Pro starts at $2499.00 US. A comparably equipped (and just as well constructed if not better) Lenovo W500 starts at $1829.00. Keep in mind that this price can fluctuate as well depending on the availability of online coupons. Apple has no such additional offer. It's quite simple really. Whether you like it or not, PC dominates the market. Therefore sheer volume and competition allow for lower prices. Do the homework before making a silly comment.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}Ok. I will. The 15" MacBook Pro starts at $2499.00 US.{quote}

Incorrect. The 15 inch MacBook Pro starts (list price) at $1999.

{quote}Keep in mind that this price can fluctuate as well depending on the availability of online coupons. Apple has no such additional offer.{quote}

Really? I just purchased a new (not refurbished) 2.8 GHz MacBook Pro (i.e. the top of the line 15 inch MBP) for under $2200, from Apple.

{quote}Do the homework before making a silly comment.{quote}

Oh, the irony!

[lerxst]

??? How is that even possible?

Here is the link that I have:

http://store.apple.c...rowse/home/shopmac/family/macbookpro?mco=MTE3MDE

Notice the starting price on the unit.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}??? How is that even possible?
Here is the link that I have:
http://store.apple.c...rowse/home/shopmac/family/macbookpro?mco=MTE3MDE
Notice the starting price on the unit.{quote}

The 2.4 GHz 15 inch MacBook Pro, on the far left of the page to which you linked, starts at $1999 (list price).

[lerxst]

> Why is it that no one can ever provide examples of the widespread, disingenuous claim of Apple offering overpriced hardware? It's a lot like the all too common claim that Linux is not user friendly enough for people to use. Both claims were once true, perhaps, but have long since ceased being so.
[/quote]
I believe the exercise here was to provide an example of two comparably equipped machines. One Mac and one PC. I think I have demonstrated that to a tee. If you're still not convinced then look at Apple's accessory prices. A 1 TB hard drive from the Canadian Apple Store is $450. One of our local retailers called "Canada Computers" has it for under $140. I don't think there's much of an argument here and I'm not sure why you continue to debate me on this when you're quite obviously wrong.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}I believe the exercise here was to provide an example of two comparably equipped machines. One Mac and one PC. I think I have demonstrated that to a tee. {quote}

How did you do that? You weren't even able to correctly price the entry level MacBook Pro. How can you make a valid price comparison if you can't even find the price of one of the machines? Incidentally, the Lenovo does not compare well with the MacBook Pro, since the configuration options don't allow close similarity, so price similarity can't be expected.

To be fair, Lenovo typically offers excellent value in their machines. Their build quality is top notch, and their durability is excellent.

{quote}A 1 TB hard drive from the Canadian Apple Store is $450. One of our local retailers called "Canada Computers" has it for under $140.{quote}

Yes, one can buy hard drive and memory upgrades from retailers like NewEgg for much less money than they can buy them from manufacturers in most cases, regardless of the manufacturer. I don't think many people would argue otherwise. That's hardly relevant to this discussion.

[lerxst]

How did you do that? You weren't even able to correctly price the entry
level MacBook Pro. How can you make a valid price comparison if you
can't even find the price of one of the machines? Incidentally, the
Lenovo does not compare well with the MacBook Pro, since the
configuration options don't allow close similarity, so price similarity
can't be expected.

I can't believe I actually have to do a component-to-component comparison for you. Well, here we go:
This link will take you to a MacBook Pro with the specs I'm about to carefully outline for you:


http://store.apple.c...?mco=MTkzOTI0Ng

MacBook Pro: $2499.00

* 2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 320GB Serial ATA @ 5400
* 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
* NVIDIA GeForce 9400M +
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Built-in AirPort Extreme (802.11n)
* Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
* Built-in iSight camera
* 15.4-inch (viewable) LED-backlit glossy widescreen, 1440 by 900 pixels

This link will take you to the Lenovo page:


http://shop.lenovo.c...1C514421A9BB0B7


lenovo W500: $2,029.00

* Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9400 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
* 320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
* 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
* ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 with 512MB VRAM
* DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
* Intel WiMAX/WiFi Link 5350 (AGN)
* Integrated Bluetooth PAN
* 1.3 Megapixel Integrated Camera
* 15.4" WUXGA TFT
* UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
* Intel Turbo Memory 2GB
* 7 in 1 Media Card Reader
* Express Card Slot & Smart Card Reader

Those comparisons are taken directly fomr their respective sites. We're essentially looking at the same machines; the OS being the only significant difference. I would even go so far as to say that you'd get more with the Lenovo seeing as you get a fingerprint reader, Intel Turbo Cache and a higher resolution display as well. Keep in mind that I haven't even applied any coupons either. Right now I could easily get another $202.90 discounted off of the final price taking it to $1826.10. Now please tell me that I've at least answered your question. This is an itemized listing of each component.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}I can't believe I actually have to do a component-to-component comparison for you. {quote}

Let's actually do such a comparison, shall we? I think you'll find that the MBP has better specs than your post indicates.

The MBP has two GPU's: Nvidia 9400M (integrated) and Nvidia 9600M GT w/ 512 MiB DDR3 RAM (discrete), while the Lenovo has only a single ATI FireGL V5700 GPU w/ 512 MiB RAM.

The MacBook Pro has an LED backlit display.

The MBP has backlit keyboard

The Lenovo needs 64 bit Vista Ultimate to be comparable to OS X, The MacBook Pro has, but is only available with the 32 bit version of Ultimate (according to the technical specifications, effectively reducing the Lenovo's maximum system RAM to under 3.5 GiB or reducing OS functionality by selecting a 64 bit version of a crippled edition of Vista.

The MBP comes with iLife '08.

The Mac has a more recent version of Bluetooth.

The MacBook Pro has digital audio input/output ports.

The MBP has IEEE 1394b (800 Mb/s) while the Lenovo has 1394a (400 Mb/s)

The MacBook Pro has a much larger multi-touch trackpad with gesture support.

The MacBook Pro is thinner and lighter than the Lenovo.


The Lenovo is not without its own advantages:

The W500 has a higher resolution screen, 1920x1200, compared to the MBP's 1440x900.

The Lenovo has 3 USB ports, while the MacBook has only two.

The Lenovo comes with their exclusive TrackPoint.

The Lenovo has a PC Card slot.


Configured as closely as possible, the W500 lists for $2438. Add a printer that comes free with the Mac ($70 from Amazon is the cheapest I've found the printer I got), and the Lenovo is $2508, compared to the MBP's $2499, a $9 difference.

The Lenovo is currently on sale for less than list, but the Mac can also be obtained for less than list price. So, what if we compare actual prices instead of list prices?

If I configure the W500 as closely as possible to the 2.8 GHz 15 inch MacBook Pro that I purchased earlier this month:

2.8 GHz processor
Vista Ultimate
4 GiB DDR3 1066 MHz RAM
No fingerprint reader
Integrated Webcam
No turbo memory drive cache
DVD recordable optical drive
ExpressCard slot and PC Card Slot
No integrated mobile broadband
6 cell battery
No additional software

Now, comparing the sale price to the price I actually paid for my 2.8 GHz MacBook Pro (adjusted to include 320 GB 5400 RPM hard drive), the Lenovo and printer come to $2244 compared to the MacBook Pro at $2243 (I actually paid less than $2200, but downgraded to the 250 GB 7200 RPM hard drive). In other words, there is an inconsequential $1 difference.

The Lenovo W500 appears to be a great machine at a great price. I've been impressed by every IBM/Lenovo laptop I've encountered in the past few years. However, it isn't significantly cheaper than an equivalent (or as close as possible) MacBook Pro.