[whateverfool]

A bunch of long-winded malarkey from MS underlings whose puny job depends on these NT based, butt born stinkers being adopted by the monkey users Bill Gates alluded to.
They're like Foxnews anchors kissing W's behind circa 2004 and this Vapor 7 thing is the 2nd term. Vaporware, talk, nonsense, that's all it is. This is how MS took over from the beginning, by fooling the stupid with their vapors of the future.
'all the people who tried vapor 7' bwahahahah, yeah, and among those, who liked it more, the pixies or the gnomes?

[MarioJP]

that article is too biased. I read that one before. Next. and fact i hardly take any of these articles seriously anymore. especially PCWORLD.

[number6]

Maybe so, but I think there is plenty of room for MS to make Windows 7 a lot like Vista. I hope they don't.

[HeroofAvalon]

I doubt very much Linux has anything to fear from Windows--no matter how good Microsoft makes their new OS. Sure, Microsoft is more compatible with a lot of software that isn't with the other, but everyone seems to overlook that Linux won't cost you an arm and a leg. If Ubuntu played all the games I want to play, I'd skip "the Man" altogether. But it doesn't, so I have to dual-boot to stay in business.

[taustin1382]

why would you want a ferrari? I mean they dont even have 1% of the car market share???

I would love to see the sources on the claims you guys post....

also no one in the linux community want to force anyone to use linux.... that completely defeats the purpose of having freedom of choice....

I hope windows 7 is everything MS claims it will be..... they need some love after the toxin that was vista. if they dont pull a rabbit out of thier a55 on this one they are going to be in trouble.

[dfschmid]

Not everyone wants Linux. Do you honestly think the average user is going to spend time to figure out how to install Linux, find drivers for hardware, and troubleshoot the system to get it working properly?
And how about replacing all the software? My father uses a sophisticate accounting package that's designed for Windows. He wants to get his work done and not fiddle-diddle with the OS.
And what about that multi-million dollar Linux installation nightmare that the city of Munich in Germany endured? It took them a couple years to figure out how to get that darn OS to work properly when Windows Server 2003 could have solved the problem easily, quickly, and at significantly lower cost. The expense and frustration are not worth it, unless you enjoy that kind of thing.
If you like Linux, OK fine. Stick with it. But it's just not for everyone. For me, after doing some research, I'm clearly banking Windows 7.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}Linux has one problem. It has mad vulnerabilities.{quote}

In a word, wrong. Compared to Windows, *nix operating systems are much more secure.

[rgreen4]

You have summed up the situation very well. The Linux heads don't seem to understand that until they turn a single flavor of Linux loose that is as easy to use and as complete as Windows, they will never take away more of the market than OS/X has much less a significant share. All the variants of Linux combined have less than 2% of the market.

And the vitriolic slams on both Microsoft and Windows just turns people off. Most of the regular members of the community avoid these discussions like the plague, and I don't blame them. Most of the posts are similar and by the same people every time a news discussion starts about some new derivative of Windows. Vista SP2 and Windows 7 are not even in the Beta stage and already being attacked, and I doubt seriously very many have even tried it. They read Windows ---- and spout off about how bad it is. And according to how the market see it - Windows is the worst OS, except for all the others out there. That's why they have 90+ percent of the market, and have for decades.

[taustin1382]

that is exactly my point..... its not for everyone, neither is windows neither is mac, etc. and who cares about market share. its not about that, is not about driving MS

off the top. its simply about not having MS forced down everyones throat. Do I think linux is a better platform for me, yes. for what i do it works great and actaually

better than windows.... does that mean linux is better than windows all around no however it does not mean windows or mac is better either. it means that we all

use these shiney little boxes differently and for what each of us needs we use a different system to do it.



For the record I have installed linux (Red Hat/Fedora, Suse and Debian/Ubuntu) in corporate (as well as: enterprise/home/small business etc) evironments for years

I have not had to manually download a single driver yet. The OS has advised me of a driver that was needed, it then downloaded and installed it on its own after recieving

the proper authentication from me.



the issue you mentioned above is very unfortunate but I can tell you its not common. also im having trouble finding any (recent) articles on the subject. care to provide

a source for your statement? all I find is the planning phases of the migration from summer 2003.

www.google.com/search?sa=N&tab=nw&q=Munich%20germany%20linux

[http://news.google.com/news?q=Munich%20germany%20linux&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn]



there are definitly some driver issues with linux simply because the drivers are not being provided by the manufac's all the drivers are either being ported from

windows or written on the fly as issues arrise. so common sense would dictate that this is a reactive process. there has to be an issue before it can be fixed.

I have been lucky and not run into this issue.The only issue I have had is with the wireless card in my new laptop. It gave me a little trouble under 8.04 and required

me to use the windows driver off the manufac's disk under ndiswrapper however it works natively in 8.10. This is perfect example of the process.

[rtfire1]

I had the best lol ever reading how the mac lunix users bash vista. I have used them all. I wanted to get myth to work on my xpm dvr pc but the cost a new tv tuner card and a month or two more for the dvr box xpm it was. I played with a few linux options, vista was the killer of all of them. Where vista was free with my laptop got I a great deal on vista 64 ult. Other then some of my old games having issues on 64 I hardly ever go back to vista 32.

[eagleal]

(You're totally wrong.)

Only the (AAPL) iPhone OS, (GOOG) Android, and a few others can terminate linux,
or at least drop a lot it's mkt-share.

And kill an OS like Ubuntu, it's just impossible:
it runs in every platform, 32/64bit x86 + atom, PowerPC, Mobile, Mainframes, Embed, and others.

However I think, you just haven't had some stuff to do, so you tested this forum.

[whateverfool]

Funny they've been saying all sorts of things were supposed to be the Linux killer, for several years now. By the time Vista rolled around Linux was already spoken about a lot, and it was finally time to take it seriously, and Vista was supposed to 'kill it'. How did that work out? FUD hasn't killed Linux, so I don't fathom how they'd expect another new Vapor (7) to do it after it's known so much. Keep mentioning Linux, you're just helping it get known.

First they ignore you, "Linux? Never heard of it, this is the 90s we use Losedows '9x"

Then they laugh at you, "Oh Linux, that hobbie that can't run anything, made by dorks in their mother's basement??"

Then they fight you, "FUD, FUD, FUD, lies, lies, lies it will die now in the face of this greatness!"

Then they lose.

[Dewcrav3r]

"I bet you anything its the Linux users that writes windows viruses so they can force users to use Linux." That is the biggest bunch of BS I've heard this month! Seriously, unless you are looking to be flamed, where do you get the gall to write something like that!? I own Linux, Windows, and a Mac, I'm president of a Linux Users Group, and I can tell you that I have never run across someone who is stupid enough to use that strategy. You are basically equating Linux users with criminals. I'll have you know that a prominent university in the North West uses 90+ virtual Linux machines to help power their infrastructure. The IT staff are not criminals and they don't write viruses, and neither do I, so stuff it!



Linux doesn't need shananigans like that to prove that it kicks Windows butt. FYI, Linux probably runs on more platforms than any other OS besides maybe Unix. And if you think drivers are a pain, do you remember trying to find drivers for Windows 98 when you didn't even know what the hardware was? Linux comes with 75% of the drivers you need all nicely installed for you, and there are plenty you can download and install too. And why aren't there more? Because hardware manufacturers don't want to invest the time and money to develop them. So some very nice people choose to write certain ones themselves and give the drivers away for free.



As for your free software speech, you are dead wrong there as well. Us Linux users like software that is free to OBTAIN, but not necessarily free to OWN. I'm talking TCO. Enterprises need support for the products that they use, so when they use Linux they pay for support. That's why Red Hat is a multi-billion dollar company. They give Linux away but charge for access to support and updates. That's where the jobs lie. And I don't mind paying for some software up-front; someone spent time and $ to develop it and they have a right to make a profit from it. But software is always cooler when I legally don't have to pay for it.



Windows 7 is NOT a Linux killer, it's going to be a lame attempt by Microsoft to convince sucker consumers that Windows isn't more bloated than Linux. If anything Linux will kill the W7 lie and gain more market share. 7 is just hacked up Vista code, and anything based on that POS OS is screwed before it began. If there was more interest in development on Linux from major software vendors, Linux would grow in features and popularity so fast Microsoft couldn't begin to keep up. Take away the vendor lock-in of software for Windows and it has nothing to stand on against Linux. Unfortunately, the end of that lock-in is nowhere in sight, so for now we'll just have to deal with Windows crap through Wine, dual-booting, and vm's.



And for all you Apple fanboys, guess what OS X is? Unix! And what is Linux? A Unix clone! So grab some Mac UI skins and use Linux on a cheap PC instead of that insecure and expensive Leopard thing. You are paying for that pretty hardware and a brand name. Disclaimer: I own a (used G5) Mac, and iPod, and I think Apple products are cool, but overpriced and sometimes better replaced by cheap generic PC-based equipment.

[0Chance]

I have tried Windows 7, it is not good for netbooks, it is nearly identical to Vista.

[dfschmid]

I have to agree with austin1382's point.
No OS is greater than the other. Sure, they all have various differences and similarities. I think most of us can agree on this point. And I think to sum it up, most of us can also agree then that Linux is not for everyone, just as Windows is not for everyone.
So let's answer the real question here. Will Windows 7 be a Linux killer? No. I don't think any OS will wipe out Linux. I think it's safe to say that Linux will remain on the scene for many years to come.
By the way, I would also agree with rgreen4's earlier comment that it would be great to have a single version of Linux that's as complete as Windows. Why not? Bring out too many incomplete versions, you've lost the user.
Which brings me to my final remark that Windows 7 will exclude a number of small accessory applications to trim down the size of the OS. A built-in MinWin core is also in the works. And why not? Start small, with a complete core OS (and don't forget the drivers). Microsoft will make it simple for people to find and download the accessory apps they want from their website free of charge.

[MarioJP]

I am starting to wounder about tech forums these days. Its nothing but bashing and less being helpful. I am starting to look into windows 7. This time they are starting off small. And most of the featues will be compatible with vista such as dx11. People just want something that works and that is not expensive. Sure u can get a apple but at what price. Or you can go to Linux and have the userbase help another linux user out. Now the problem is not everyone likes linux because its missing the critical features that window users have for years. Which is true support. Why do you think game companies won't even bother with opengl. That 1% of the market just does not cut it. Furthermore Directx is not a sitting duck either. Theres alot of advancement going on with MS api. I am not saying Linux is not useful i am sure it is and i have actually seen Asus motherboards with a Linux chip built right on to the hardware. This will allow you to bypass the primary os just in case your hard drive has crashed or your primary os no longer boots.


The way i see Linux is going its not just the os that we all claim it to be. Linux comes in all sorts of devices already. Routers, small handheld devices and like i said some expensive gaming motherboards have linux built right into the hardware. I think thats where Linux is going. As far as replacing windows?. Eh thats for most that hates windows. Its is true that linux is user driven which include most of the drivers for most of these devices. Just like theres a Liknux community there is also a windows community sides from the manufacture support. Finding drivers for windows that is not a big deal. I never had a driver problem in windows. Most cases i have seen drivers created fo windows for outdated peripheral devices that are no longer supported. Now from a business point of view I can understand not willing to upgrade if you want to cut the cost or not worth it at the time being.



http://www.driverguide.com This site has drivers for almost every device you can think of.

[rgreen4]

Up until XP when you installed the consumer version of Windows, there were various optional items that you loaded during the installation. Later, you could start the installation program and add those items you wanted to add later. With XP everything was installed, whether you wanted or needed it or not. With Vista they took a new direction with Vista in that it only installs the drivers it needs when it is installed.

They could carry this to the next logical step, and simply have you check off which applets you want. Then by simply bringing up the menu later, you can uninstall some you decide you don't want and install those you decide you do want. This of course would play havoc with the manufacturers method of having a "recovery" partition and "recovery" drive rather than a full install disc. Maybe that would also force them to provide an install disc which would solve a lot of problems for customers who really need an install disc at times.

[MarioJP]

and also don't forget there is a nifty utility called nlite for xp and vlite for vista. This tool allows you to slipstream drivers into the installation files before burning it to a cd or dvd. I had to do that with windows xp to support raid functionality to bypass using a floppy disk.
have a look and its pretty cool what you can remove or add to windows
www.nliteos.com/


And speaking of recovery partition. Yes your are correct and i believe that is a big problem. It has gotten to the point that MS just only wants to provide just the platform and let hp,sony, deal how they want to setup a oem pc/laptop. I personally don't like this method because this can make things very unstable and sometimes comes with broken software. They really need to change their stragtegy because this will confuse the average joe. I have actually seen hp computers modified windows in such a way where you seel their "HP logo" on the setup of windows discs. Sure the only one benefit of a recovery partition is everything is all included. Even the drivers is all in there. Don't have to worry about installing drivers. Just click next next and let its do its thing and your back to the "factory default settings"









Now the downside to this is well your stuck with their image and may come with trial software that something that you don't want or need. Sometimes comes with broken software that just makes the system unstable too. Especially if it comes with tons of security software preloaded.

[rgreen4]

Mario - thanks for the links. This discussion has kinda gotten off topic, started talking about Vista and Linux, now we're fixing XP SP3 install discs. But, that's how it goes sometimes when good info needs to be disseminated.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

[GCFreak]

Umm...yeah. All I can say is I totally agree with Dewcrav3r, and everything he said sums up why Linux will beat the living crap out of Windows and this article was written by someone paid by Microsoft. That's all I can say on this subject.