[Northlite]

>>Would just as soon keep
XP as I haven't even completely learned it yet; heard bad reports about
Vista; Windows 7 doesn't sound like an option either.<<

You will be able to keep and use XP for as long as you want - support has ended for Windows Me and my sister still uses it as she has no need for anything more or the money really to buy a newer computer for what little she does on her computer security has never been a problem either. So you don't have to worry about having to give up XP until you need to. Vista or Windows 7 would only be an option if you needed to buy a new computer as that would come equiped to handle it.

[JimH443]

Northlite said:

So you don't have to worry about having to give up XP until you need to. Vista or Windows 7 would only be an option if you needed to buy a new computer as that would come equiped to handle it.

This is another reason why I bought the WinXP retail version last spring. If a new pre-built system comes equipped to handle Vista or Windows 7.... it's equipped to handle XP even better. :D

[artimaticus]

I am in the same boat as everybody else here. I have had my laptop for just over two years and it came installed with XP. I absolutely love XP and consider myself somewhat highly technical. The problem with MS and all of their latest software, Office included, is that they are trying to make things a lot more simple for the basic computer user or the first-time user. I can see with Vista that if I had never used a computer before, Vista would be a very easy-to-use OS. Those of us, though, that are somewhat tech-savy and used to doing things a certain way find that the rearranging of things to make it easier for people makes it harder for us.
For me, seeing that Windows 7 is almost a clone of Vista, is almost enough temptation to switch to Linux.

[rcprimak]

> This is another reason why I bought the WinXP retail version last spring. If a new pre-built system comes equipped to handle Vista or Windows 7.... it's equipped to handle XP even better.<
[/quote]
That is not always true. Many Vista optimized computers will not run Windows XP or XP software. On some computers you cannot just downgrade.

[Northlite]

[quote name='JimH443']
>

Northlite said:

> So you don't have to worry about having to give up XP until you need to. Vista or Windows 7 would only be an option if you needed to buy a new computer as that would come equiped to handle it. This is another reason why I bought the WinXP retail version last spring. If a new pre-built system comes equipped to handle Vista or Windows 7.... it's equipped to handle XP even better. :D

But the drivers for the newer hardware that are XP compatible my become harder to find..

[JimH443]

While I am sure there will come a day when hew hardware will not come with XP drivers, I don't see that happening for at least another 5 years. And even then, it'll take me yet another 2-3 years before I even want that new hardware.


You're talking to someone who has little need or desire for anything more than a very basic system. I don't even have a printer. The only driver I'd anticipate wanting is a video driver. And even then, if worse came to worst, I'd merely reuse the video card I presently have and install the drivers I'm using now into the new system.

[waldojim]

1101doc said:

I am going to give Windows 7 beta a try. I have another hard drive and caddy for my laptop and will simply pull my XP HDD and install Windows 7 on the other. From what I have read about it W7 promises better security and enchanced recovery over XP. I hope that this is true. I also hope that I can find drivers for all my devices- we shall see.

In any event, Windows is really about the unsophisticated 'masses' of people who just want a computer that 'works.' For many, XP has not really been that OS. As a participant of several computer 'help' forums, I am continually suprised by the number of people who really do not understand the fundamentals of XP even at this late stage of its life-cycle.

If W7 can provide the 'it just works' experience that many (most?) people want, then I am going to become familiar with it, and perhaps even install the stable version as my main OS.

I believe that linux (especially Ubuntu) is getting very close to providing a 'just works' OS for everyone, but it is not there yet, and needs some interface work to get there. Hey Ubuntu- how about a 'translation' version? It would offer windows-like versions of all the interface wording. the user could then 'click off' the translations when and if the new terminology was learned.

Operating Systems seem to be alot like religion for many, but at the end of the day it is just software. software should 'just work.'
perhaps W7 will be that software.

Hey Microsoft- Wanna make some extra cash? Put out a 'new' version of XP complete with integrated SP3, fixed bugs, and built-in recovery functions. Leave the UI alone, but offer some extra flashy 'skins' and 'themes' for it. Lots of XP die-hards would buy it all over again, including me. Bring on XT!

I think the transition problems lie in that if they make things too close to the MS counterpart, MS will have a fit and sue, as they have every right to do. There is a fine line to walk, trying to make an OS similar to another (for user transisiton) w/o cloning. Yet people seem to want Linux to be a clone. It is really that hard to think write = word? (equivelent)

This is also a big reason for the XP people not wanting to switch to Vista. They changed the start menu again. They changed the controll panel layout. From an IT perspective, it has gotter harder to get to things like network properties.

More than anything, People do not like change. They are dead set in 'I am used to this, let me be.'

[1101doc]

The main reason that most 'ordinary' users do not switch to linux is that they just don't understand what they are seeing. Windows has a certain 'architecture' to which they have become conditioned. Linux is different enough so that they are conceptually' lost. If there was an on-screen method of understanding the conceptual differences it would be much easier to adapt.

I recognize that the exact wording could not be used, but if something like "Personal Data" was used for "My Documents," for example, folks would catch on much more quickly.

[waldojim]

have you used ubuntu?

It does use 'Documents' in place of 'My Docuemnts' for example.

It has a menu system that is sorted better. This is a personal opinion I know, but rather than going to start orb> all programs> now where is that damned software at..... was it under EA this time, or Sierra, or some other publisher I don't recognize? VS. Start thingy > Games > game. They take more time to break the menu down a bit, and do some sorting, which make my life easy.

You have a clear cut meny to accomplish system tasks to, click System> administrative changes (don't remember the exact wording here) > Network Settings for example. And network seetings, actually does what it sounds like. As does XP. If I select network settings in XP, that is what I get.

Vista is............ complicated... its damn near 6 'pages' to get to actual network settings.

If I was used to XP, 2000, or 98; Vista is actually confusing.

BTW, for the sake of mentioning it. There have been studies proving that first time users can find thier way around ANY major OS (Linux/Mac/Windows) in about the same amount of time, with similar hurdles. Also they state that its just a matter of understanding WHY something was done. Why make folders? Why is Word/Write/Whatever in the Office/Productivity tools? In other words, as I have mentioned elsewhere, if people are saying that they cannot accomplish xxx task in yyy OS, most likely its because they didn't really try.

For some people, changing how an OS behaves is really hard on them. If you know how to achive a specific task, and now you add two more steps in there, they get confused. This is true for all OS's. This is also why Linux is not right for many people. Linux is very fluid, very dynamic. One week software works one way, next week the author of that software thinks he has found a better way...

[mphenterprises]

rcprimak said:

Many Vista Computers will not run Windows XP or XP software.

>
>




Hi Rcprimak. I have a Dual Boot system (Windows XP & Windows Vista) and there are only two applications that I use in Windows XP that do not work in Windows Vista: Nero 7 and MatrixDVD (multi-screen video viewer).

Can you please provide examples of applications that you tried to run in Windows Vista but could not?

[JimH443]

I believe that what he was trying to say was that some computers won't run XP itself. At least that's what I took it to mean since he was responding to my comment that any machine that can run Vista would run XP even better.

[mphenterprises]

Hi Jim. Thanks for clarifying.

[waldojim]

but honestly - nero is a good enough reason for me to keep XP.... I like nero 7.... 8 was kinda bulky.

[JimH443]

That's exactly what I thought of Nero 7. I was sorry I upgraded from Nero 5.

[mphenterprises]

But isn't that the nature of the beast? We like what we are used to. That is why so many people will not give Windows 7 a chance. People have become so used to Windows XP that any significant change is like a shock to the system. I will give Windows 7 a chance when it is released in its final stage but for now, I'll enjoy the posts of everyone else testing the Beta version.

[coastie65]

mphenterprises said:

>

Quote

But isn't that the nature of the beast? We like what we are used to. That is why so many people will not give Windows 7 a chance. People have become so > used to Windows XP that any significant change is like a shock to the system. I will give Windows 7 a chance when it is released in its final stage but for
now, I'll enjoy the posts of everyone else testing the Beta version.

>
>


Yeah, i'm with you I just sit here and and enjoy the posts while at the same time enjoying having XP MCE 2005 in here. I have Nero 7 In here myself although haven't used it much, but it runs. coastie

[JimH443]

mphenterprises said:

But isn't that the nature of the beast? We like what we are used to.

Here's the "kicker" in my case. I bought Nero 7 because I had just bought a dual layer DVD burner, and Nero 7 claimed it could burn dual layer disks. I have yet to figure out how it's done. I open the drawer of my HP dual layer DVD burner and insert the freshly unwrapped HP brand dual layer blank (the one my burner's instructions recommends). I close the drawer, the disk spins... and Nero comes back and says it doesn't recognize the media! And guess what? HP says it's Nero's fault, and Nero says it's HP's fault.

Yes, I do like what I'm used to... but only if it works ! :)

(Both work well together with single layer disks... even cheapie brands of blanks)

[waldojim]

I use nero recode most of all, it just works!

There is something to be said for not fighting stupid things like 3:2 pulldown, telecine, is it 29.97fps or 23.97...

As to the comments about people getting used to something. I like change: done correctly. If you want to make my life easier I can deal with that. If my 2 clicks I'm done project turns into 'I'm on the 5th link now, and still can't find it... wait try this, and this... oh goodness its 7 pages deep now', I feel like I am going back to the OLD days of lInux. To me this feels like we are going backwards.

Now I will be interested in seeing how Windows 7 acts on my laptop (installing tonight! :D)

I hope it is a little nicer than the Vista on there....

[1101doc]

Been playing with Win7 today on my Dell lattitude D600 laptop. (1.6 intel/1024Ram/Radeon 9000) Several things about it that I don't like. I cannot find a way to pin a toolbar to the edges of the screen like I can in XP. That's my favorite method to keep my desktop organized. I turned off almost all the visual effects and that makes it snappier. Still not nearly as quick on this hardware as XP, of course.

I also cannot seem to modify the various display properties to my complete liking. I use bright yellow for tooltips, and in XP that includes Taskbar notifications as well. Not so Win7, it seems. Taskbar notifications remain white.

Curiously, Win7 doesn't seem any better at 'remembering' Taskbar settings than earlier Windows versions. Had trouble getting the settings to 'hold' after log-off or reboot.

So far I am not overly impressed. It does seem like networking has been smoothed out, but without another Win7 system to connect to here, it is hard to tell. The UAC is just like Vista. Not such a bad thing for most users, I guess, and there is an easy way to modify it's behavior, so it's not too bad. UAC also seemed not to 'hold' its setting after reboot.

At this point I'm going to say that like Vista, Win7 doesn't lend itself as easily to modification as XP through the UI. "Power users" will find it difficult to tweak short of outright Reg hacks. I expect to see those springing up like crazy very soon.

Tomorrow I will apply the Vista Tweak UI (VI) to see what it can do for me. I'll let you know. At the end of the day I'm very glad to be back 'home' with XP tonight.

[coastie65]

[quote name='JimH443']
>

mphenterprises said:

But isn't that the nature of the beast? We like what we are used to.

Here's the "kicker" in my case. I bought Nero 7 because I had just bought a dual layer DVD burner, and Nero 7 claimed it could burn dual layer disks. I have yet to figure out how it's done. I open the drawer of my HP dual layer DVD burner and insert the freshly unwrapped HP brand dual layer blank (the one my burner's instructions recommends). I close the drawer, the disk spins... and Nero comes back and says it doesn't recognize the media! And guess what? HP says it's Nero's fault, and Nero says it's HP's fault.

Yes, I do like what I'm used to... but only if it works ! :)

(Both work well together with single layer disks... even cheapie brands of blanks)

Interesting. I just bought another Lite - On to replace the one that went south in here. Only difference is that this one also had LightScribe and DVD-Ram capabities. Nero 7 Essentials came with the drive. Have tried the Dual layer stuff yet as I don't have any. I just bought some LightScribe Blanks, but no DL stuff. I'll have to keep that in mind to try my own at some point. Coastie65