[WinTard]

Hey it's another glorious Saturday morning January 31, 2009, and the bottom line is:
This silly Conficker/Downadup worm infestation appears to have been stopped dead in its tracks in the wild, in the news, and statistically. Conficker has now become a has been. Old news...
While ramping up to 9+ million infected systems in the first five days, seven days later, only one million more... Extrapolation? What's the trend?
Perhaps people simply auto-innoculated themselves through the automatic Windows Critical Update security center? With MS08-063 and MS09-001?
Source: Google News re conficker. www.darkreading.com/security/vulnerabilities/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=213000041
Quote:
Snort Users Have Zero-Day Protection From W32.Downadup/Conficker Worm
The combination of Sourcefire's MS06-040 rules, its MS08-067 rules, and the company's generic shellcode detection rules delivers multiple layers of protection
Jan 30, 2009 | 09:28 AM
By Sourcefire
DarkReading
COLUMBIA, Md., January 29, 2009 - Open source innovator and SNORT' creator, Sourcefire, Inc. (Nasdaq:FIRE), a leader in Enterprise Threat Management, today announced that its customers and Snort users have had zero-day protection from the rapidly spreading W32.Downadup/Conficker worm.
With reportedly more than 10 million systems currently infected, Conficker is on track to become one of the most widespread worms in history. The combination of Sourcefire's MS06-040 rules, released in 2006, its MS08-067 rules, released on October 23, 2008, and the company's generic shellcode detection rules delivered multiple layers of protection against Conficker, even before it was released in late November 2008.
And I've yet to encounter a single instance of this famous worm, with anybody I know, work, or socialize with... Ah yes, they all first use Windows amongst other things...

[NeverQuiteThere]

I have still yet to find a PC with this worm either and I am handling a lot of different PCs (with all sorts of crap ware on them...)

I conclude it was maybe a bit over-hyped and also that people have, inadvertently maybe, fixed it themselves via the MS security bulletins.

On the pother hand it is being said just how much less of a problem worms like this would be if people had ALREADY been up to date with their security updates. It was released in October and yet so many people hadn't updated yet. So the worm infected those machines.

9million infected. Sounds like a lot.

Is it a lot?

I now fancy going for a searching spree to discover...what is the biggest number of machines ever infected with a single worm/virus?

Ciao.

[rstoert]

imagine...

here's a guy sitting in dark night of thailand up north country side. ricefields & the hum of nature. thx 2 a notebook & gprs/phone... i stumble upon ur posts, na khrap :) 21st century is amazing :)



no, i don't wanna add to that os-discussion... once it has been said 1 shd not discuss religion or politics... w friends :)



but i like ur quotes :)



it's rare... in more than 20yrs... computers&internet... to come across sb... who's able... to spice up... "facts"... w... wisdom. na khrap :)



thx!

[randydom]

What's the world without MS , and Programming without C .
No MAC no LINUX


:^0 :^0 :^0

[pcGoDsp2007]

Okay, so not to be mean, but this is nothing but a scare. Remember the Y2K in the turn of the new milennium?? Yes it was different, but did it happen? No. And as for the April 1st date, that won't happen. If this guy has the knoledge to do this, then he deffinetly will not stick with the date. If it does in fact happen, then it's going to hit when everybody expects it the least. The whole conflicker worm virus deal isn't as bad as every one says it is. And as for Microsoft offering a 1/4 million dollar bounty on this guy...he will not be caught by the average citezen. My advice is to back up EVERY THING on your PC or Mac to a disk, floppy, or thumb stick. What ever is accesible to you. If your computer does get infected, re-install your operating software. Do not download anything because that is the most common way to get a virus. Good luck to every one!

[coastie65]

Repo said:

Anyone, who uses an inferior operating system like Windows XP (which allows by default automatic execution of programs on removable media) on a network, is risking becoming the next statistic.






.

Not if you have DEP enabled to by checking the second option. coastie65

[apexwebmaster]

Rather than repeat what has been stated over and over in this thread, I too will back up the fact that Linux is practically immune to these attacks. I have migrated all of my home computers and business computers (for my personal business) to Linux, and now I can focus on using my computers rather than maintaining, troubleshooting, and worrying about viruses all of the time. I have to deal with transferring files to/from clients, and I can rest easy now that I'm NOT using Windows.

This post has been edited by smax013: 04 October 2009 - 12:17 PM
Reason for edit:: Removed self-promotional/external link

[hblanthorn]

In response to Wintard - DEAD ON CORRECT!
I didn't think too many people even knew of the 6502 processor - which also powered the Commodore systems, and many others, including Ohio Scientific - (if anyone remembers them).
But most importantly, PARC was the birthplace of Windows! And home (at the time) of Bob Metcalf (who most of us regard as the 'father' of ethernet). And hey, PARC also invented "Laser Printing" (XEROX would be expected to do so, when you think about it).
So please end the Apple vs Microsoft nonsense. It's just mind numbing babble.

[WinTard]

apexwebmaster said:

Rather than repeat what has been stated over and over in this thread, I too will back up the fact that Linux is practically immune to these attacks. I have migrated all of my home computers and business computers (for my personal business) to Linux, and now I can focus on using my computers rather than maintaining, troubleshooting, and worrying about viruses all of the time. I have to deal with transferring files to/from clients, and I can rest easy now that I'm NOT using Windows.

I am sorry to agree with you, that Linux is indeed not plagued with these kinds of infestations. The reason I state that I am sorry, isn't because Linux is a safer, or more robust environment than Windows, but the reason simple reason behind why Linux doesn't get as much notoriety when infected, is security through obscurity. With less than 1% of the PC market share, hardly any malware targets the Linux platform. Thus you not having to worry is great, and bad, in as much as Linux like Mac users, underestimate the potential threats out there.

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,440,000 for linux vulnerabilities. (0.19 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,320,000 for unix vulnerabilities. (0.18 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,400,000 for os x vulnerabilities. (0.16 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 325,000 for windows vulnerabilities. (0.17 seconds)

Granted the numbers do not represent a direct correlation between actual distinct incidents and / or vulnerabilities but does indicate a type of linear regression geometric trend that can be used to compare the general term vulnerabilities amongst different OS platforms.

But simply imagine with less than 1% of the PC market, having 2,440,000 hits implies lots of discussions regarding vulnerabilities issues in the Linux community. As well, consider normalizing this with the 89% PC market share concerning Windows as the OS platform, and you have to multiply that by factor of 89 to get a representative figure, or alternatively, divide the windows figure by 89... Either way, the picture isn't pretty for Linux.

In conclusion, the fact you don't have to worry as a Linux user, and can focus on the task at hand, is simply great. But do not let a sense of false security be your downfall. Accidents happen when least expected. Rootkits do exist. And so do malicious websites...

Supporting my assertions are the exploits against Apple Mac OS X that occurred at Pwn2Own last March 18. In that hacking competition, Nils walked away with $15K by simply exploiting a buffer-overflow memory injection that gave him total root control of the target under:
1) IE8 beta and Windows 7 beta
2) FF 3.0.7 under OS X 10.5.6
3) Safari under OS X 10.5.6

Since OS X is BSD Unix based, and so is partly Linux, if you are using Safari and / or FF, YOU are still wide open to that malware under Linux. Should you stumble upon it? Even if you do not use a root account to browse the web...

As far as the Conficker/Downadup worm for most Windows users that are not pirates, that do auto updates for critical security fixes, we do not have to worry about a thing. It's a non-issue.

Good luck with your Linux experience!

This post has been edited by smax013: 04 October 2009 - 12:18 PM
Reason for edit:: Removed quoted content removed from thread

[TechieXP]

@apexwebmaster & @Wintard.

I read what you guys have been saying about Linux. I even read the info at the link about Windows vs Linux. I'll try to stay open-minded. When it comes to security, and dealing with problems and other things...it is obvious Windows has some issues. But its not like the others don't. But without getting into details I want to look at how easy it will be for a user to deal with the problems of either.

Also in all fairness, not everyone who uses Windows has the problems listed in that article. I am certainly one of them. I however taught myself how to troubleshoot issues when they do arise. They ALL can usually be tied to 3 problems. Bad software, bad drivers, or bad user. The first 2 are usually always totally repairable...the 3rd never ever will be. In the article the guy said in order to fix many problems inclduing server based ones...his answer to fix was to reinstall Windows? After reading that as much as 10 times I question his level of ability to use Windows. In many of the exaples he mentioned I too have experienced that issue. After running my own ISP service with webhosting using Windows 2000 Server, I am certainly familiar with dealing with them. However out of the close to tens years of running the business, I recall reinstalling Windows 2000 Server only 1 time. And it was a fault I created and didn't know how to recover from. However if I had did more searching I would have found the answer which would have solved it without reinstalling.

The fact of all software whether open or closed source is that they are all buggy and have the same issues...its not the number that actually matters. Windows issues in my opinion are multiplied by how many users its has. The least amount of users = the least amount of problems. Question is, when you have a problem how easy is it to fix. Reinstalling is duh! It is obvious starting from scratch will solve any problem. The smart thing to do is learn what or how it is being created. Bec if you don't you essentially will just do it again.

As easy as Windows is to use, even to this day people don't understand how to troubleshoot them. I even watch ppl Google the problems and find the solution and perform them inaccuratly even though they were provided with easy step by step instructions. So what happens when they switch to linux and have problems? I watched certified IT Professional struggle with issue in Linux. I also watch them reinstall the OS simple out of frustration.

The developers of an OS can no more protect you against every possible exploit no more than a doctor can protect you against viruses either. As old a chicken pox, measles, and several STD's to this day are still rampant. Has anybody fixed them yet? A doctors job actually isn't to fix a problem, but to simply help you cope of live with it.

I do agree people do become brand selective. Where once they get use to working with a brand they simply stick with what they know, even if there are known better alternatives. SO WHAT! What else is new? In my case after using WIndows for so long and have learned how to avoid problems, my experience has been excellent. However I do boot other OS's to learn more about them and one day who knows I may switch. Switching simply isn't for everyone. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone.

The article also made a quick note to the confusing versions of MSFT software like Windows and Office. I too feel it can be confusing for some. Sure why not offer a single version for all? Maybe because that idea in reality doesn't work. Linux has over 100 different versions...less than 10 of them are considered desktop friendly enough for a consumer to even try. However not all of them are totally compatible with each other. OSX also comes in different flavors and just like Windows, you always get the latest one preinstalled on a new system. At this point there are 5 versions of OSX. How does a user know which is best for him? I think in reality teh choice is no more complicated than any other thing in the world. To this day Ford offers 25 different version of the F150. GM which like Chrylser uses platforms where several makes use the same chassis...How many versions of the Chevy Trailblazer are there? Each GM brand has a truck that uses that platform including the Hummer. Choice deosn't scacre people away. It simply shows everyone has a different need. To me that is a bias statement that has no level of justification to single out one product. If people can make choices among food, clothes, cars, traveling and even sex...picking an OS can't be to hard.

When it comes to virus, my thing is I want to know about them. Using OSX or Linux you may never even know you have one. I have used every version of Windows and I have only run a virus program for teh first time in history. And that is only because I have a non-experienced user using my system and I don't want it compromised. I'm not worried about anyone outside doing so. Neither do most users. Hackers are looking for corporate systems that have data that ca be used against someone. No one care about the music, videos and porn users have on their local pc. Even on my Windows Sever with Excahnge, I don't a native anti-virus checker...I have a flash drive that i have set to scan the system with update definitions at specific times. To this day I haven't experienced any infections.

Computers viruses are just like any human infection. Not everyone will get them. Look at Cancer and so many others. Some people could attach their mouth to a chimney and inhale smoke and never get it, yet another could smoke for the first time at any age and get it. There are billions of ppl who use pc...and several million don't get infected and they aren't worried about it either. If people cared about getting sick, no matter how legal cigarettes are no one would ever buy them. Even to this day, millions of people don't run anti-virus programs in Windows.

Based on some basic facts, you probably won't ever get an infection. Most infection are derived from installed hacked/cracked software off torrent sites. Other infection are gathered from sites that have porno. If you don't ever visit those sites...you won't get infections from them. When you buy software, I make it a rule that if I buy it...I will purchase a CD or make sure I download from a reputable site. Need Adobe updates? Either use the builtin update process or go directly to them. Same for any other update.

Using a computer has rules, just like driving. As long as you stay within them...you typically won't have a problem. Accidents will happen no matter what car you drive. I have seen accidents where teh car was totaled beyond reconition and yet teh driver survived, and seen other where the car barely had a dent and teh driver died. Go figure!

The virus mention here which was thought to have been fixed has a new strane. Doesn't that sound familiar? I know many doesn't believe in comspiracy theories even if there is proof, because if it sounds to far feteched itss too stupid to consider. It is a fact tho that many hackers do get paid to get around security written in software. If they didn't have a reason they wouldn't do it and companies like Symantec and others wouldn't even be around. So many have said many companies have come into existance bec of MSFT...good or bad. That is a fact that we have to live with. Hackers know most people use Windows so more exploits are wriiten for it. At least developers and even MSFT themselves are working as hard as possible to stay on top. But they actually can't and nor should we expect them. To e it is like saying...just because doctors know about most health issues, doesn't mean I should take the needed precautions to protect myself from them. Same with a computer. Switching to me isn't a protection. It simply buys you time in some respects. However I have read several threads that Apple doesn't go tthrough the same process of protectiog OSX. Which means if you use it, you're basically on your own. I do agree that since Linux is open that when issues arise there are several ppl who will work on it. But lets be real. If too people are getting paid to clean a floor who you think is going to do a better job. A man making 35k per yr? One making minimum wage? Or one doing it for free? The best things in life are free? Well Porsche and Ferrari and Lamborghini certainly make some of the best cars know to man...last time I checked they aren't free. Diamonds are teh most sought after jewel known to man, and yet a awesome engagement ring will set you back at least $1000...is that free...even good sex comes at a price.

I don't think open source software is better...I do however believe it is a viable alternative. The article did state that in many cases you can find software that is compatible and even have additional function beyond the closed source ones. And you can get just as much help as long as you know how to search for it.

This is what I don't like about articles that are biased to any software. They will always point out only the flaws of another. But what abouts its own flaws? We use Linux at our office for a phones system we designed. We use Centros and Asterisk. To this date we have had to rebuild the Asterisk software and move it from different Linux versions because of issues that couldn't be fixed. Centros has been teh least problem matic. So far we have isolated the issues to the OS. The IT gy doesn't like Windows either. Yet our own phone system in the office was recently switch away from Linux and we are running the software using the x86 build....its been 6 months now...it has gone down 2 times...problem wasn't the OS.

We have 4 Macbooks here. After several weeks of testing we have given them to our PM's to use in the field. 2 crashed and required reinstalling the OS. We didn't do it, we took it back to Apple and thats what they did. They all have experience application crashed...and one gave the WSOD (white screen of death).

We had Norton running on one of them...but viruses isn't an issue until one of teh users got one when his hooked his jailbroken iPhone to it. One of his applications screwed it up. Typical. Our same IT guy has installed FireFox on every system to use along with IE. We had too users get the MSANTISPYWARE2009 virus attack. The first user ho got it was using Firefox exclusively and the second user uses IE. We have Symantec Anti-Virus Corporate on all. I told them we need something better that has spyware and malware protection. Even though most users have fast machines he ignored it. He placed a new software on the server that prevents the browsers from opening certain websites. It sucks because even some legit trusted sites fail to open. He is begging teh owner to go full Linux or even OSX.

Even with 20 users we have come up with numbers that exceed using Windows. Unlike that link. We have to license the server versions which cost as much as Windows. Sure we don't need them for the desktop...but some programs we do need, respectable replacements aren't open-source. We also use lotus notes which is avail on Mac and Linux...we have yet to see what differences there are. And my boss is one of those people who is locked on using what works. But he is a programmer and knows most of use couldn't use Linux which is why he bought 4 Macs to see if we can uses those. I have seen as a fact, it is easier to go from Mac OS to Windows...vs going from Windows to Mac. All 4 hate you can't do the cool things Windows does. There are issues with it working with cellphones...so we had to get them iphones instead...creating more cost. We had to buy additional networking stuff...creating more cost. Already 4 Macs has cost us more to own then the last 4 pc laptops we bought at xmas.

So in conclusion, making teh swicth may solve some problem...and they certaily will create new ones. New ones cost money too especially on a business level. If you can switch I back it 100%. But we just gotta stop psuing it on others. I a not going to push Windows on anyone...if you dont like MSFT you certainly dont have to use any of there products. Windows is compatible with many standard and like any other have adopted there own...doesn't everyone? Do that make them bad? I know they have pushed many things...i simply say...if what others had was so great they could have found an alternative to get it out there.

[WinTard]

Wise decision TechieXP.

As for me, I am neutral, but will continue to debunk myths and fallacies whenever I encounter them. It's fun ! That's the reason I JustDoIT. For the fun of doing it.
;)

[rgreen4]

Everyone seems to want to blame the OS for these problems. How about putting the blame where it belongs - on the sicko's and criminals who loose them on society. Maybe if they charged the next twerp they catch with terrorism it might send a message.

[WinTard]

You know rgreen4, you are so right! We should focus more about the virtues of these vandals and criminals, instead of those of the OS...

[TechieXP]

Exactly.

Most IT guys will say there are 2 ways to insure your pc won't get infected...don't hook it to the internet or turn it off. For us people to insure we don't get an infection would be to stay home grow our own food, or die. Not to get off topic...but prostitution is the oldest profession in any country...yet they spend money going after teh guys who pick them up. Isn't that stupid? I thought the way to solve a problem is to get to the route of the problem. Attacking the symtom of teh problem isn't going to make it go away.

I know I can say or do things that could be borderline crazy...but I have way more common sense then ppl we pay our taxpayer dollars too. MSFT offered a bounty of 250k to turn in the loser who created this virus. I whished I knew who did it. Even if it was my mama...i'd be like mama I love ya but to bad so sad.

Money is the root of ALL evils. People will do anything for money...even kill. But yet when someone akes improper use of it, we don't go after them...or if we do catch them they get a slap on the wrist (Martha Stewart).

The problem is I guess the task and oney needed isn't there as usual. I guess it is easy to hide behind a fake IP Address.
As with any terrist group, find another group that doesn't like them so you can find out where they are...once you find them...blow them up...problem solved. I use to be mean and say if a country commits a huge terrorist act on your soil and you can prove beyond a shadow of doubt they did it...just blow up the whole country...end of story. But that wouldn't be fair as innocent ppl will go to. But you think software developers don't know who some of these guys are. Someone always knows...just like the bushes had friendship and business ties to the Bin Laden's. And the Bin Laden have Al Queada ties? It doesn't get more inside than that...I am willing to bet these hackers could work right inside MSFT's own company.

How is it, non-public releases of upcoming software managed to get leaked? Anyone remember when the software that creates code for Office XP and Windows XP was leaked? MSFT had to change the full algorithum they used to produce keys.

To me its a game and we all play in the game too..knowingly or not.
Just to be sarcastic...one guy said, how do we know if Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are really enemeies. It could just be a PR persona that all of us continue to feed. Neither of them gain or lose by our fighting about our products. I know people who don't like each other but are awesome business friends.

People who create viruses should be treated with the same as people who are terrorists. When you catch them, remove them from society, lock them up, tortue them a bit and make sure you prevent them from having access to equipment to commit the same crime. For a computer terrorist cutting off their hands would be sufficient. (I know thats mean) But we have teh authority to have capital punishment...less use it. Maybe then ppl won't be so eager to commit just crimes.

[apexwebmaster]

I agree with you 100% that the migration path for any individual or business will vary greatly. The more proprietary software that you use, the more difficult the path. However, with open source, the software is more open and usually provides more flexibility for adaptation. For instance, Microsoft came out with its own Silverlight, totally disregarding Linux (they did however write the plugin for Mac OS X). Yet, an individual from the open source community was able to pick up the slack and write Moonlight, the Linux engine for Silverlight. If you put that into the reverse situation , look at how many open source technologies that Microsoft has adapted to. Are there any? If Microsoft can accomplish vendor lock-in and require its customers to ONLY use its own software (as opposed to an open source product), that increases its profit, which is the goal.

As far as a security standpoint, Windows is more bloated than Linux when you look at the current versions side by side. I'm talking about Vista in comparison to Fedora 10 for example. For instance I can put Fedora 10 on Pentium III with 512 MB of RAM and comfortably run most basic tasks (Internet, office suite, etc). I have tried to put Vista on a Pentium III with 512 MB of RAM and it was unusable. Therefore, it does not surprise me that Windows has security flaws. To me Windows seems to have more fluff, and less substance when you talk about the OS itself. Sure, you can add 3rd party software and expand upon the base OS. I do agree that Linux is not targeted, yet, for outbreaks like this one. Time will tell us how that story will turn out. But right now I'm looking for less of the fluff and more for substance, which Linux has.

[coastie65]

If You are running Windows, there shouldn't be a worry if you take the necessary precautions. 1) keep your security stuff upadated as well as windows 2) run in a limited user account rather than the Administrator account 3). make sure you have Data Execution Prevention activated at it's highest ( 2nd option) 4) make sure you have good reliable security apps. and 5) and most important, be vigilant of where you wander on the web and what you click on. The tools are there, use them. coastie65

[WinTard]

I'd suggest to look at some of the Microsoft Server class family, if you want less fluff, and more substance. Or simply install cold-metal whatever OS you need. A clean install of XP requires a mere 120MB RAM, once bloated up, it goes way above 600MB. The entire Windows 7 beta took around 22 minutes to install from scratch. It boots in under 28 seconds to the login prompt. Has zero bloatware. And is lightning quick. Let me state much quicker than Linux, and I use both. Actually, Windows 7 is the next gen of OS. The reason even Vista doesn't run well on old architecture, is it was built for the future. I know many won't like, even resent what I am saying, but it is the truth. Nowadays, you can't judge the performance of an OS on how small the memory footprint is. There is no correlation between efficiency and RAM usage with newer OS. The turning point is precisely multicore multithreading 64-bit OS all the way, kernel, drivers, and all apps. But that is JMHO.

So you stating less troubles concernign malware with Linux, perhaps, but only from an obscurity perspective. Linux is left alone by malware. Period.

As I professionally use Linux (Red Hat Enterprise Advanced Linux, Debian, Fedora, CentOS) and Unix (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX) and others (QNX) on a daily basis, in addition to Windows, I can speak from experience. And I can categorically state that a properly maintained and managed Windows system will have similar reliability to its variant counterpart. No worries, no hassles, zero problems.

[JimBritt]

I wouldn't use a mac if you gave it to me!



I don't like stuck-up companies with such restricted policies that hurt consumers and treat us like dirt.

[JimBritt]

"PC" stand for "personal computer" and a Mac IS a personal computer thus a Mac is a PC!



Macs STINK.

[cjam]

Apple should have gone ahead and bought Be OS at the same time it bought Next, that way they would have a more advanced platform to jump to when the Next-based (OS X)one wore out. They could have been steadily doing R&D on it and had it ready to go as OS 11 when the time came. Now their stuck just keeping pace with Windows (soon 7). Be OS? Lost in the netherworld of Palm Inc. from what I hear, with a small group of independent open-source programmers still working on it or a clone of it. Oh well.