[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Macs vs. Windows Laptops, Sky-Fi, and Video Chat here

[stefn]

Mac vs PC: Why do the cost comparisons never include the resale values, say, three years out?
Simple enough to include: Just look at eBay closed auctions and extrapolate that information for new models. Rough measure? Sure is. But to include nothing means offering no true and complete costs of ownership.
Just to say: I have sold several Macs on eBay with pretty amazing resale values.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}Mac vs PC: Why do the cost comparisons never include the resale values, say, three years out?

Simple enough to include: Just look at eBay closed auctions and extrapolate that information for new models. Rough measure? Sure is. But to include nothing means offering no true and complete costs of ownership.

Just to say: I have sold several Macs on eBay with pretty amazing resale values.{quote}

I agree. While the days of Macs being significantly more expensive than hardware equivalent PC's are long gone (evidenced by the increasing number of businesses purchasing Apple hardware for running Windows exclusively), when resale values are taken into consideration, it becomes evident that Apple has a significant hardware cost advantage for most users who get rid of their old machines upon upgrading.

[dels7080]

MacBooks can be bought cheaper than the $999 retail by simply searching for corporate or education discount codes. For instance the $999 MB can be bought for $939 and the $1999 MBP for $1839. Not too mention, the Apple refurbs are a deal and come with Apple's award winning service ($849 for MB). At those prices it is not worth messing all the time with Vista (I have been using Windows since late 1980's and converted to Mac during the Vista fiasco).

[mikedgolf40505]

Please go to either the HP or Sony site and start building a notebook. There is a $500 to $750 price hike with an Apple. This is just fact. I hope it stays that way so my wife and my own Mac's will stay secure. I do not mind paying the extra. They are at least $500 better built units.

[dels7080]

The price diff is closer to $200 and NO VISTA!!!! Trust me, I had a HP Vista notebook and a Vista desktop and sold them both within 3 months because Vista screws everything up. Apple tech support is well worth the $. I added $25 of RAM to the MB and it screams.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}Please go to either the HP or Sony site and start building a notebook. There is a $500 to $750 price hike with an Apple.{quote}

I just went to both sites and configured MacBook comparable machines. The price difference is very little, and the MacBook ends up with better specs.

Sony VGN-CS190 (configured comparatively to white MacBook):
Intel? Core? 2 Duo Processor T5800 (2.0GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2 cache)
Microsoft? Windows Vista? Ultimate 64-bit
2 GB DDR2-SDRAM (DDR2-800, 1GBx2)
DVD?R DL / DVD?RW / DVD-RAM Drive
LCD 14.1" WXGA+ (1280x800) (XBRITE-ECO?) with integrated video camera
Mobile Intel? Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
160 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive (5400 rpm)
10Base-T/100Base-TX
Intel? WiFi Link 5100AGN (802.11a/b/g/n)
Integrated V.92/V.90 Modem (RJ-11)
EpxressCard? 3/4 slot
Memory Stick Duo? media slot
SD memory card slot
i.LINK IEEE 1394 port (4-pin)
3x USB 2.0 ports
VGA video port
Headphone jack
Microphone input
$854.99

MacBook
Intel Core 2 Duo (2.0 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB, 3 MB L2 cache)
2 GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (1 GB x 2)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics processor
13.3-inch (1280x800) LCD display
Integrated iSight webcam
160GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard disk drive
SuperDrive (DVD?R DL/DVD?RW/CD-RW)
Mini-DVI port
Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet
Built-in AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi (802.11a/b/g/n draft)
Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
2x USB 2.0 ports
FireWire 400 IEEE 1394 port (6-pin w/ bus power)
Combined optical digital input/analog line in
Combined optical digital output/analog line out
Built-in omnidirectional microphone
Free printer (up to $99, after mail in rebate)
$1049

What does the Sony have that the Mac doesn't?
Faster RAM
1 USB port
ExpressCard 34 slot
phone modem
MemoryStick slot
SD card slot

What does the Mac have that the Sony doesn't?
Better CPU (faster FSB, larger L2 cache)
Superior Nvidia 9400M GPU (though still integrated)
Gigabit ethernet port
Higher pixel density
Power via IEEE 1394 port
Digital audio in & out ports
DVI support
Free printer

The Sony is $195 cheaper than the Mac, but doesn't come with a printer, effectively reducing the price difference to about $100. It has 800 MHz RAM, but both machines should be upgraded to 4 GB via cheaper, third party suppliers, so that's an insignificant difference. The Sony has a MemoryStick slot, which Sony camera owners will find convenient. It also has an SD slot. The Mac will require an inexpensive adapter for access to these two types of media, but considering the abundance of different, similar media formats, users of either machine will likely need such an adapter. The Sony has an ExpressCard slot, which would be a significant advantage, except it lacks gigabit ethernet support, so the slot will have to be filled with a gigabit ethernet adapter if users want acceptable network bandwidth. The Sony does have one more USB port than the Mac. The Sony also lacks digital audio ports, and doesn't support DVI output. The Mac can power FireWire peripherals from the bus, which is very convenient when AC power outlets are scarce. Factor in the Mac's superior CPU and GPU, as well as smaller form factor and weight, and that extra $100 bucks seems quite justified.

HP dv5tse
Windows Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T6400 (2.0GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2 cache)
2GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
15.4" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Infinity Display (1280 x 800)
HP Pavilion Webcam
160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
Integrated 10/100BASE-T Ethernet LAN
Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
1 ExpressCard/54 Slot
4x USB 2.0 (one shared with eSATA)
5-in-1 integrated Digital Media Reader
High Capacity 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Free HP printer (after $70 rebate)
$1,038.99

The Mac fares even better compared to the HP than compared to the Sony. The HP does have an ExpressCard slot, but, like the Vaio, it lacks gigabit ethernet, so a gigabit ethernet card is required for reasonable network connection speeds. Also, like the Sony, the HP has inferior an CPU and GPU, compared to the entry level MacBook. HP also doesn't offer IEEE 1394 support on configurations with integrated graphics (despite there being no option to select a discrete graphic card on this model). The HP does have one (or perhaps two, HP's wording isn't clear) more USB port than the MacBook, as well as a 5 in 1 card reader. They get no points for the eSata port, however, since it is limited to the low bandwidth of USB 2.0 instead of utilizing a much faster SATA bus, resulting in what is essentially a glorified eSATA to USB adapter. HP makes no mention of digital audio ports, either. The pixel density on the MacBook is much higher, offering the same resolution in 2.1" diagonal less space. Of the two, the MacBook has a smaller footprint, is thinner, and is lighter.

Again, the extra $10.01 for the MacBook, compared to the HP dv5tse seems well justified, especially considering the HP lacks any high speed ports.

Apple's entry level notebook is priced competitively with comparable machines from HP and Sony.

[justindclark]

Theses kinds of discussions always seem to deteriorate into Mac vs Pc arguments in which both parties sound ignorant. What it really boils down to is opinion. My opinion is that Macs are better. This has nothing to do with the hardware, it is OS X.
The environment of OS X is so much better for productivity which is why most of us use computers in the first place is it not? I purchased a Mac because it is the only (easy and legal) way to run OS X, but if Dell or HP offered a cheaper notebook that ran OS X I would have a hard time resisting it.
I only use my notebook for light computing and will be able to use this computer for many more years. There are some of us Mac users who don't own Macs for style and purchase Macs because we truly believe that they are the best value. They last, they are secure, they are intuitive (in both software and hardware), I'll be using my mac until I need a new computer and if I can't afford it, this rock solid system will be here until I can.