[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Apple Could Sue Palm Over Pre here

[HapaxLegomenon]

"It is thought Apple is concerned about the multi-touch screen on the Palm Pre that can be controlled using a two-fingered pinch, just like the iPhone. Apple has applied for a patent to cover the technology used in multi-touch screens. If granted, the patent would require other phone manufacturers to license the technology from Apple."
C'mon! You can't patent a pinch. That would be like giving Underwood typewriter company and patent on pressing keys on a keyboard or Bell a patent on using your index finger to make a phone call. Ludicrous!

[dcolley]

Anyone that steals Apple's technology should be sued out of business.

[votrobeck]

""The Palm device particularly seems to almost directly emulate the kinApple has applied for a patent to cover a multi-touch screen, and if granted, would requitre other phone manufacturers to license the technology from Apple. of touch interfaces that you had innovated and that Steve, when he launched the phone, talked about patented. Is that to what you're referring with regarding to ripping off IP?" he said.
While Cook refused to elaborate on which company he was referring to. "
Can't afford someone to proof-read your article? Damn.

[HapaxLegomenon]

Perhaps Palm should sue Apple. The 5-way button on my Palm Zire31 works exactly like the 5-way button on my iPod Shuffle.

[chuckchuck]

With Jobs dying, Apple has to rake in money some how!

[wrathforger]

so people who steal from other companies shouldn't be sued?

stupid apple fanperson

[tremp101]

In the 1980's apple ripped off the mouse and graphical user interface from the Xerox 8010 Information System, where was its concern for IP then???

[rusty778]

@ tremp101
are you kidding me?
Apple offered them 1 million dollars worth of stock for the ability to use their IP.They've done nothing wrong

[bluelobe]

Oh, so you're saying it's okay for cheapo car manufacturers to copy Ferrari's dashboards that it spent a lot of time and money designing, that MS and Sony can copy the Wii-mote's interface, that no one has to license Graffiti they can just rip it off, that user interface designers shouldn't bother to come up with the most user friendly and innovative desigs since they won't get any protection for their labor--since you're advocating anybody can just copy their designs.

Just google "MessageEase"--it's a new virtual keyboard interface that's easy to use and innovative. By your standards, what they invented should just be used for free by anyone even if it means driving the company that developed it bankrupt.

The way Apple came up with iphone's user interface is pretty impressive and innovative. They should be allowed to protect their efforts and investments.

[Eruaran]

The software code and design can potentially be completely different. You can't go to court with your whole case resting on the patentability of a finger pinch. This is why software patents should be outlawed. Corporations abuse the patent system with monotonous regularity.

[HapaxLegomenon]

@ bluelobe
I checked out MessageEase, and I was very impressed. However I think people are misunderstanding the point. In the case of MessageEase, the company can and should enforce a patent on their product (software), but they shouldn't be able to sue another company if people are using their finger or a stylus to enter data into their PDAs or NDSs, right? How can you copyright a pinch? Now if a company steals or copies the software that Apple uses, yeah, sure, sue for intellectual property theft. But I maintain that a pinch motion or a flip motion (geeze, maybe Guttenberg should sue Apple) cannot be deemed IP. And guess what? It was FREE! Let's see Apple do that!

[bluelobe]

Yes. I agree. But Apple's patent is not for using multiple fingers or touches, their patent is for multi-touch gestures where a pinch shrinks, reverse pinch expands, double-tap on a screen zooms in or out, etc. Other manufacturers, including Palm, are perfectly free to come up with their own gestures. Since Apple came up with it's own gestures, it's entitled to patent these and expect to protect its investment in coming up with their gesture dictionary. It is to Apple's ingenuity that the stuff they came up with seems so intuitive that people can't think of alternative gestures, but considering nobody came up with an iPhone-like device before Apple just goes to show how groundbreaking they really are.

[GoldCard]

There were touch screens being developed using the pinch feature before the iphone and ipod starting using this feature. The products are not on the market yet, but I believe Apple copied the idea from someone else, so I don't know why they have their panties in a bunch. I know someone will disagree with my facts, so if I have to I can post evidence to back up what I am saying.

I won't ruffle any feathers because so many people worship Apple these days. But I bought an Apple G4, which was advertised as the world's first desktop supercomputer when they came out. Not sure of the year, but I know it was around 1999. I paid $4,000 for it. After all the good stuff I heard about Apple, I was shocked the thing kept crashing. I tried everything to fix it!! Apple tech support told me that I had to wait for OS X to come out, that OS 9 is buggy! I had tons of RAM in my machine, and I used to get 'out of memory errors' doing the most simple things, or it would simply completely crash. Heck I remember one time I was at Sears playing with the colorful new iMacs out on display. I tried doing something simple like playing a song or movie, and got the same 'out of memory error'.

I first ordered my G4 at the local Apple store. I called up there 20 times over a week period after it was suppose to be delivered to the store. So I decided to order one from Apple.com. I never did hear back from the local store! My monitor also had 2 lines running across the screen. Tech support told me it was a 'feature' of the Apple monitors! Back then I had a computer company, and supplied hospitals, schools, and other large companies. I talked many people out of buying Mac products due to my bad experience with them. I do realize their stuff has gotten a lot better, but after the nightmare experience I had with them, I haven't been able to bring myself to spend even a few bucks with them.

[bluelobe]

From what I've read of the history of multi-touch, Apple is the first to come up with the two-fingered pinch that shrinks/enlarges images. Before them, there were two handed gestures that shrunk/enlarged. In another case, one is supposed to put one's hand on the screen and then have the other hand push the object toward it to shrink it, etc.
The two-fingered pinch was also used in some cases, but not for zooming in and out--maybe it was to 'pinch/drag' something--the literature wasn't sure.

Since Apple still hasn't introduced cut/paste and Palm says it's already developed it but hasn't shown its gestures, plus I hear other mobile manufacturers also have cut and paste, then it's only fair to expect Apple won't be using/copying the other manufacturers' gestures otherwise it would be legally liable, supposing the others patented their gestures. It's only fair.

The main question is, could Palm come up with the Pre gestures without first seeing how Apple did it on the iPhone? In fact, could Palm even think of developing the Pre without Apple first developing the iPhone? Could RIM have come up with the Storm w/o first seeing the iPhone? Could Google come up with Android? etc.

[HapaxLegomenon]

I think using two fingers to indicate size ("How much bourbon do you want?" "MMM, just a bit" uses two fingers to indicate size "This much?" "Oh no, a little less" fingers pinch together to indicate less is desired) is pretty much a universal sign. Go to any country and you could use that gesture to indicate quantity or size. So did Apple create that gesture. No way. And as for touch screen, c'mon! Palm had a touch screen way before the iPhone or iTouch. I was playing Monopoly on my Palm with my fingers to touch buttons way before those Apple products were around. I'm not trying to dump on Apple, but they are starting to act like big ol' mean Microsoft. When the Beatles tried to sue Apple over the use of an apple symbol, I'm sure Mac fans were rolling their eyes. But now Apple may want to sue over a gesture? If we don't stand up to corporations' abuse of copyright, we not be able to "stand up" soon (some company might copyright THAT movement next).

[eagleal]

Come on!!!
Companies such as Microsoft (Surface) pioneered multi-touch technology for years.
Hollywood made tons of films showing multitouch technology (eg. Minority Report).
Even prehistoric men knowed this "technology": they used that to paint in the walls!!!
PS: I'm not a MS fan nor an Apple one. In fact I'm a linux fan, and see a lin-future.

[eagleal]

@bluelobe:
Yes to all of your questions.
And Apple it's NOT fair.
They don't let popular web browsers run on the iphone because it would kill Safari.
They don't use an open framework because it would kill their market-share.
They force developers learn Objective-C programming language, which is only used on the OS X, and iphone OS.
Etc.

[bluelobe]

Actually browsers that can compete with Safari have started appearing on the AppStore (which everyone is copying). As for Objective C, it's a pretty good and powerful language, much more intuitive than C, Java or C#, I think. Plus its IDE which is really fantastic is free for all developers.


Microsoft's multi-touch was developed after Apple's R&D group came up with theirs. Look it up (note that Apple bought FingerWorks, one of the pioneers in mobile multi-touch).

[Jcrash]

Palm Pre Terms of Use should read:
"I promise not to use the 'two finger pinch' and instead will use one finger while operating the touch screen."