[WinTard]

savior said:

The only reason MS is doing this is to make people switch over to Windows 7 when the time comes, It wouldn't surprise me if MS sends a XP virus that makes you have to buy Windows 7. Windows 7 is going to be a FAIL grade like its sister Vista. Therefore XP will still in some ways kick Window 7's butt. Just because its not flashy. Learn from Mac...make things simple

(SIGH) - Easy to spot those iAMZ eh? Always the same brainwashing empty-message, over-and-over again. Makes you really wonder if they don't have an army of paid monkeys just doing that. They're everywhere in the media! I suppose it wouldn't cost any more than an army of SPAMMERS. You know those people that continually call your home, trying to sell something you don't need or don't want? I find it's funny.

Remember in the end, the truth shall prevail. Evidence, market share and numbers don't lie.

Hint: to spot one, look at the post count and join date, and review the contents of their ideas. Sometimes enlightening, but certainly entertaining!

PS: I look at it like fishing. Fun eh?

~~~~~~~~~~
Truth is the only safe ground to stand on.
~ Elizabeth Cady Stanton

[Tech4me]

Can't help it ....to say I'm with you....:p

Conspiracy....consp...consp.........never ends.... doesn't it.

[JimH443]

WinTard said:

Remember in the end, the truth shall prevail. Evidence, market share and numbers don't lie.

Actually, ask any statistician and he'll tell you that numbers can say anything you want them to. They're sluts that way.

And what is Vista's market share anyway? There's no way to know for sure. Everytime a computer gets sold, MS simply adds that sale to the reported "market share" - whether or not the person chooses to replace Vista with XP.

And I've never said Vista didn't work on new computers. What I've been saying all along is that there's no compelling reason to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade a three year old computer just for the priviledge of paying another hundred dollars or so to buy an operating system that brings nothing to the table.

You like Vista? That's great. I'm happy to hear it. I just don't appreciate having MS try to shove a new OS down my throat without actually offering any usable improvements.

[WinTard]

It's a free world. I find most products work well, when you know what you are doing.

I personally never let anybody invade my personal space unless invited. So companies attempting to shove anything anywhere don't stand a chance with me.

No problem! Easy!

~~~~~~~~~~
Your freedom stops where mine starts.

[WinTard]

I'm with you! You've hit the nail on the head! It actually is a conspiracy. I am sure some are paid to do so, but somehow, they've also managed to brainwash an army of 'volunteers' proclaiming salvation. Almost with religious zeal...

~~~~~~~~~~
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
~ Albert Einstein

[eMJay]

Ok, I'll agree that there's a lot of FUD out there concerning Vista. As far as I'm concerned, SP1 fixed many of Vista's problems, although the effects of being somewhat bloated were still apparent. Most of the stability problems were actually the result of bad drivers and badly written software, but, as is usual, the OS, in this case Vista, is forced to take the blame for it, with few blaming the true culprits.
Having said that, i have to take issue with the fact the you seem to think windows market share actually indicates the level of popularity of windows. It doesn't. Instead, it reflects the fact that for a long time, windows has been the only OS made available for pre-installation. Most people didn't choose windows; they chose to buy a computer. Windows has been a mandatory purchase, not a choice, for most PC buyers, thanks to a lack of mainstream competition.
But the public mindset is changing. Those who prefer XP to Vista are simply doing something that they should have been doing years ago - picking the OS that runs on their computer, rather than having MS and the hardware companies doing it on their own terms. At the root of all the anti-Vista hype is a degree of frustration with the lack of control that individuals have over the direction of the PC environment. At some point years ago, people accepted the idea that it was ok to have only one OS developer for the whole industry. Now many are simply regretting it because suddenly they're finding that the older OS met their needs better than the new one. If Windows had direct competition in the OS market, those persons who deliberately spread FUD because of their frustrations would simply migrate to the brand that they think is better for them rather than go to war with the OS developer. What MS needs to do is to focus on supplying the consumer rather than try to control them. If I were MS I would continue to sell XP to consumers who want to buy it - and i would sell it at a similar price to Vista. After all, customers who think that XP is better than Vista should be willing to pay just as much for XP since they like it better. Those who want the newer OS will simply buy that. MS wins either way and the consumer buys what they want.
Not everyone who doesn't like Vista is spreading FUD and is part of a conspiracy. And not all those who spread FUD about Vista are actually using Windows. Many people have made genuine complaints about Vista, mostly because they're so used to XP's interface. I've heard lots of complaints about the interface that i agree with - eg. Vista tends to appear too cluttered when compared to XP. That's an example of a valid reason not to want to use Vista, in my view. It's subjective, yes, but the reasons why most people like or dislike a thing are mostly subjective rather than objective.

[JimH443]

eMJay said:

What MS needs to do is to focus on supplying the consumer rather than try to control them. If I were MS I would continue to sell XP to consumers who want to buy it - and i would sell it at a similar price to Vista. After all, customers who think that XP is better than Vista should be willing to pay just as much for XP since they like it better. Those who want the newer OS will simply buy that. MS wins either way and the consumer buys what they want.

I agree wholeheartedly. After the release of Vista, during the days shortly after MS announced they'd no longer be selling XP, I went out and bought the full Retail package of XP Home ($199, installs to a brand new, unformatted HDD). I believe XP is the better OS for me, and I was willing to pay full price for it. I believe MS is making a big mistake removing this option.

[WinTard]

eMJay, finally some sensible arguments, that I can understand, empathize and debate with.

First let me say that I am not a fanatic of anything, I am agnostic, which means impartial with no prejudices or preconceived ideas. And more importantly open-minded as well.

That said, I play devil?s advocate because there is so much FUD flowing around. And I cannot remain quiet as a personal principle when fallacies are being perpetrated in a deceving manner. I am not saying you are, but others sure are.

I lack the time at this instant to formulate a coherent and thoughtful response to your interesting post, and look forward to reply as soon as time permits, but want to let you know that you've got my attention from a positive perspective for a change. Ahh a breath of fresh air!

Thank you

~~~~~~~~~~
To see what is right, and not to do it, is lack of courage and principle.
~ Confucius

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
~ Winston Churchill

Objectivity is better than subjectivity.
{Chinese Proverb}

The object of the superior man is truth.
~ Confucius

The superior man...does not set his mind either for anything, or against anything; what is right he will follow.
~ Confucius, The Confucian Analects

[WinTard]

Everyone has the right to their own beliefs.

~~~~~~~~~~
Tastes, preferences, or colors are not meant to be debated. They just are, and that's good enough.

[rgreen4]

I have to take strong disagreements with the "too cluttered" comment. Last night I was firing up a new build for a friend, and had just installed Vista Home Premium. They could have had a choice and did choose Vista because they had a new Dell with a hardware problem with Vista and liked Vista. They did not want to buy another manufactured machine. After the installation finished, and it booted to the desktop for the first time, it had only one icon - Recycle Bin. Nothing else, period. All the rest of the clutter you see on a Vista desktop is put there by someone other than Microsoft. Neither Vista nor XP has ever shipped with all the ads and promos you see on the screen of a machine in the store (sometimes they are clean because the store staff has removed the bloatware).
Many people blame Microsoft and Vista for ills visited on their machines by errors at the manufacturers imaging facility. Case in point, the HP error in imaging Vista on an AMD machine that had Intel drivers as well as the AMD ones that kept people from updated to SP1 for a while. There's a reason the PC De-Crapifier exists and it isn't because of Microsoft. Just recently you have been able to order an HP laptop without Norton's Internet Security. That one program which in the 2006 and 2007 editions acted more like malware than the malware it was designed to protect against. It slowed the machine down and it was impossible to remove with Add/Remove function in Control Panel.
I have seen clean installs of Vista perform well on platforms with a Gigabyte of memory and have seen high end machines loaded down with bloatware perform poorly.

[eMJay]

When I used the word 'clutter', I wasn't refering to desktop clutter, but to the design of some of the interface menus. Your points about OEMs and the damage they cause to the reputation of MS and Vista are well noted. It's one of the main reasons why I've built all my past desktops myself. I only use retail versions of Windows, as this allow me to upgrade the mainboard as regularly as I need to. So my take on Vista is based mainly on installations that don't feature the crapware that you rightly complain about.

[GetReal]

I repeat these because they are so applicable!

there's no compelling reason to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade a three year old computer just for the priviledge of paying another hundred dollars or so to buy an operating system that brings nothing to the table.

You like Vista? That's great. I'm happy to hear it. I just don't appreciate having MS try to shove a new OS down my throat without actually offering any improvements in my work.

shortly after MS announced they'd no longer be selling XP, I went out and bought 2 OEM packages of XP Home ($89 each, then installed to 2 home computers HDD). I believe XP is the better OS for me, and I was willing to pay full price for it. I believe MS is making a big mistake removing this option.

Yes I have tried Vista for 5 months---found it to be a waste of my money.

:>(

[DaveInNC]

So how is moving WinXP to extended support different from Vista now? Microsoft isn't fixing several major bugs in Vista, so what's the difference?

[Jesant13]

DQuin413, finally I meet someone smart! There is really no reason for people to be attacking Windows Vista. Hate UAC? Turn it off and reduce the security of your system. Ffs, some people can be such morons, it drives me nuts!

[WinTard]

Dear all with all due respects:

Apparently many XP users are so happy with their existing versions they see absolutely no requirement to upgrade now or later; I say great! -- That is indicative of the level of satisfaction they already enjoy and is perfectly all right.

Don't worry people, do what is best for you! Since you're happy, remain happy. Why spoil it?

Just don't expect Microsoft to support an operating system that came out nine years ago in beta and released officially in 2002 forever for free. Come on people we're already in 2009!

But since you are already as happy as can be -- as-is; where's the beef?

As for security patches, back in Dec'08 and early Jan'09 Microsoft issued critical patches going as far as Windows 2000, a frozen product entirely discontinued and officially unsupported. They addressed the conficker/downadup worm for all Windows versions including Windows 2000.

So if there is a major security flaw detected in the future, even if XP is 'unsupported', so what? You can count on Microsoft to be diligent and prevent by any means at their disposal, remedial of a potentially 'critical situation' where others innocent bystanders could be impacted. The recent proof-case is right there in-all-of-our-faces!

But if you continue complaining and crying about missing out on further developments and improvements, then you are hypocrites. Since you claim you like it the way it is...

In your own words: "good enough".

And those who want to upgrade to Windows 7, let them be, without telling them that is right or wrong, or what they should or should not do.

Simple eh?

No Problemo! There is no need for resentment from anyone for being shoved anything, anywhere? You have freedom of choice don't you?

Is it fair that to say that Microsoft as the one providing support (for free) also has the freedom of choice too decide to do what is best for them?

If you don't agree with their decision, then you vote with your wallet, and simply don't buy, or boycott! And see Microsoft go down, crash and burn!

And if they don't so what? Suck it up and move on.

That freedom of choice also applies to other people too? Let them go to Mac or Linux. Who cares what they or others do?

What matters (to you) is what you do. No need for reinforcement by numbers or validation by others for your own personal choices are there?

Or are you one of the follower types that requires association with a gang, one of the "me too" and jump onto whichever bandwagon happens to be in vogue? You follow fads?

But one thing is clear: criticism and bashing of anybody else but yourself is not only futile but wrong. PERIOD. Because if you do, then you open yourself to be criticized for making the 'wrong' decision too... Fair is fair.

Any further complaints thus is borne out of immaturity, hypocrisy and bad-faith on the part of the one doing the bashing.

That is my simple honest and humble opinion.

PS: And for sure some will disagree and flame me for stating my honest opinions, so? Go ahead, flame all you want, see if I care. ;

And stating an opinion, is not imposing, shoving down, coercing anybody towards anything, since it is generic, fundamental, and applies towards all. There is NO judgment call made here, except towards those who judge to rationalize their own criticism of others. And my convictions are solid enough to stand on its own, without requiring validation by others. OMG, what will people think? I'm just not like that. I am simply stating the obvious: if this then that.

Peace! Towards all goodwill people in goodwill. Others can ...

~~~~~~~~~~
BMW: is an acronym for B1tcher, M0aner and Wh1ner...
~ Jo King

Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
~ Eleanor Roosevelt

For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind.
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

[cold]

Man you just nailed the argument! I mean some people seem to think MS is some giant charity we are obliged to contribute to every couple of years with no concern for the quality of its work. How can consumers insist on their right to throw their money at a company? Weird. Vista may be around but it is not a compelling product and unless it is a no option purchase on a new pc or a gift, there is little to justify the money Vista costs when XP is still alive. Just because its the latest kid on the block means nothing if it does not work for the consumer, and the consumers have spoken loud and clear in favour of XP over Vista. Apparently the customer is not always right, at least to MS. LoL, I may just wait for Windows 8 ... This debate really says a lot about the psychology of the consumer culture.

[WinTard]

All in good humor, sorry I couldn't resist, nothing personal, really! Call it a coincidence! You might even use that avatar! I would! :^0



On topic:
I still use Windows XP in five systems at home, and am perfectly satisfied with it due to the hardware limitations of the systems in question.

On any 64-bit CPU, I am or shall use Windows 7, beta for now. That makes two systems.

At work, our corporate standard is still Windows XP-SP3 + IE7 so there. But in my capacity, I evaluate everything cool as well, so am also using Windows 7 x64, I've got five systems in my office, hmmm, let's see Centos, Red Hat, Windows 2008 Enterprise Server, and Ubuntu.

There, fun eh?

~~~~~~~~~~
You are one radical SOB!
~ Patrick Swayze in the movie Point Break also with Keanu Reeves after he jumps out of airplane without parachute and catches other mid-air for a duo-landing.

(Trailer following)
This is NOT directed towards anybody specific any resemblance is purely coincidental All characters are fictional *

[GetReal]

>>>> Just don't expect Microsoft to support an operating system that came out nine years ago in beta and released officially in 2002 forever for free.



I/we did not say "for free" as I am and think many others would be, willing to subscribe to a reasonably priced support package until MS finally releases an OS that actually helps my work. Personal experience >>> it has not yet. All I'm saying here is when I spend money I want some useful return for it, not just eye candy and a serious deduction of my bank account. Until then I am willing to stay with the 7 0r 8 or 9 year OS that I have.

Also. Where is the pain to MS if they still keep selling an old OS, even if only as OEM that doesn't get much support anyway (thinking that people who would still buy Xp are never going to buy Vista or Win-7) ?

[GetReal]

Totally off topic, sorry! I appreciate the image and have saved it. No offense taken.

[WinTard]

Fair enough. However, that is a question that only Microsoft can answer. A reasonably priced support agreement. I suggest a petition perhaps? Who knows?

I only know what I want and am going to pursue.

Thank you for having a well-thought sensible argument to discuss, instead of common absolute juvenile rants leading nowhere.

PS: I am glad you liked the avatar.

Cheers!