[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Ten Best PC Games Ever here

[olafec]

I cant believe that Half-life wasnt even mentioned in this article, even as an honor-roll. Doom wasnt even the game that revolutionized the first person shooters.. it was Wolfenstein!! Half-life has sold more copies than any of its predecessors, not to mention all the awards it has won, the sequels it has, and the community that has developed because of Half-Life.

One more thing, I dont ever remember Doom being a multiplayer first person shooter.

This article needs a serious makeover with a reality check.

[DarrenGladstone]

Benj,

Far be it from me to speak ill of stories that run on my own Site / Mag, but I gotta publicly put out there that something seems off here. First, I'd love to have seen a list of all the developers you surveyed to tell you which games ranked as "Best Ever." That would give a little more context. The other problem in a story like this is that, well, I disagree with a number of the choices. These games are influential, and yes, I know stuff like this is highly subjective and everyone has their own list of picks. So, in that spirit, let me fire back with a couple of my own that, in my humble opinion, are equally deserving of a "Greatest Game" nod if not moreso. I'll keep it brief.

Strategy -- X-Com: UFO Defense or Panzer General

RPG -- Wizardy: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord, Pool of Radiance, Bard's Tale, Ultima III: Exodus or Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar (Baldur's Gate aped these games, btw) -- Or maybe even Torment: Planescape

FPS -- Not arguing the significance of Doom and everything it's spawned, but I'd at least mention that Half-Life and Half-Life 2 have made a significant dent in the space since Quake came out. (And yes, I know that HL's Source engine is based upon id's Quake codebase). Mature level design + sophisticated story telling woven into all its projects. And seeing as how you quote Sweeny, he won't say it, but I will -- UT gave multiplayer matches a boot in the ass.

Team-based FPS (not even a blip? Really?) -- Counter-Strike, Battlefield 1942, Tribes, or Team Fortress / TF2.

Adventure -- C'mon, Myst? What about anything in the King's Quest, Space Quest -- heck, even Leisure Suit Larry series? Nothing from Monkey Island -- like Curse of Monkey Island....or Full Throttle....or Grim Fandando?

Open-world -- Love it or hate it, the Grand Theft Auto games popularized an open-world genre that many have attempted to ape. And the games have all been immensely popular. (I personally trace that back to Sundog - The Frozen Legacy and AutoDuel, but whatever).

I know stories like this are hate bait, but I would've done it differently. Sorry.

[mattpeckham]

The trouble with "top" lists is that they irritate everyone and typically satisfy no one. Everyone wants to see their own picks on the marquee.

I'm with you, Darren. I would've done it differently. But then I guess that's kind of the point, too, which is why I'd support (while disagreeing with some of) Benj's picks.

If anything, I think the story might work better with a different title. Something that doesn't make quite as grandiose claims. Given the list's makeup, maybe something about being "pioneering" or "influential" (though that definitely precludes WoW if we're purely talking mechanics).

And I'm sure we'd both give Benj props for managing to sneak in a couple important but typically overlooked titles like Trade Wars and Rogue.

My tops, without thinking deeply about it...

Strategy - X-Com for "most influential," Civilization for "best"

Wargames - V for Victory for "most influential," Combat Mission for "best"

RPG - Ultima IV for "most influential," Planescape: Torment for "best"

FPS - Doom for "most influential," System Shock for "best"

Adventure - King's Quest for "most influential," Grim Fangando for "best"

But now I'm running up against categorical limits. What's GTA IV? Sandbox? Crime spree? Epic drama? Roleplaying game? All of the above, and then some. Or Fable 2... Roleplaying game? Mini-game repository? Relationship simulator? Etcetera.

[RedWolf]

This article is bound to be controversial, and that's fine. But I'll say one thing about it: my original title was "10 Greatest PC Games of All Time." They were not intended to be listed as the "best games ever." For that, you can thank the editors in the sky.

[Koronin]

I was surprised not to see Wizardry on that list. Going back to my Apple ][ days, this game was way ahead of its time, and the 7th version (Dark Savant) was a marvel for 1992.

For Civ, Sims, Simcity, Starcraft, I couldn't agree more, those games have sucked years out of my life!

[DarrenGladstone]

Hope I didn't come off as a complete jerk. As Matt said, I am giving you props for sneaking stuff on there like Rogue and MULE. I just cringe at most lists that claim to list the "best ever" of anything -- even stuff that I've written. So I know how that goes.

(But I always hated Myst. ;))

[Mikemeister]

Has anyone else noticed that anytime there is a top 10 games/movies/etc. list, that inevitably, #1 is always something that has been recently popular? (I'll stick with MMORPG's as an example.)

As good as WOW is, 10 years from now, when the next big thing is out, will anyone still be talking about Warcraft as one of the best games ever? I will bet any money that it will be spoken about as much as people currently talk about Ultima Online and Everquest.

There are other games much more deserving to be #1 on this list, that will more likely stand the test of time, such as the original Half Life. What does everybody else think?

[RedWolf]

Hey, it's ok -- I don't mind at all. Even though this piece has an educated method to its madness (with ranking criteria developed by myself), it is nonetheless a work of pure subjective opinion, and it couldn't have been any other way -- no matter who wrote it. People are bound to disagree, and that's to be expected. But if it gets people talking and discussing the beauty and importance of PC gaming, I think that's a wonderful thing.

[mattpeckham]

I know what you mean, Mike. I guess the argument for WoW would be that it's the best-selling mainstream PC MMO ever. I think Lord of the Rings Online is much better (possibly even best) personally, but that's me.

And mainstream MMOs are a fairly recent phenomenon, so representation is going to feel skewed contemporarily.

[GaryMartin]

Thanks for the nod Redwolf! A friend pointed this out to me and it made my day to be remembered. ;)



Gary Martin,

Author, Trade Wars 2002

[Blenvid]

I enjoyed the list, but I was wondering if the list should be called the most influential PC games, not the best. As many may agree, what is the first at something is not always and necessarily the best. Doom for example was certainly an influential game but the best game of it's kind? Hardly.

I thought it was sad that entire genres of games where PCs have reigned supreme, unlike those mentioned which double as console games, were left out. For example:

Most influential Flight sim: Microsoft Flight Sim
Best Flight Sim: Maddox IL2/Pacific Fighters series

Most influential Car sim: Need for Speed series
Best Car sim: NFS Porsche Unleashed (GTR honorable mention)

Most influential Helicopter sim: Janes Apache Longbow
Best Helicopter sim: Janes Apache Longbow (Enemy Engaged honorable mention)

[mcbarker]

I agree with you that the Sierra series of games, and X-Com are probably some of the best games in the history of the PC. One other I would like to add from the mid 80's was the Starflight series (1 & 2). In both games, the graphics were crude, but the story lines were excellent, and you had to use your imagination and your smarts to figure out the solutions. Also included were explorer vehicles, trading posts, and decisions on who to ally with, and often, what seemed to be the right choice turned out to be wrong. It was a game way ahead of its time. If these games were released for the first time today, with eye popping graphics, they would be instant hits in my opinion.

Another that was missed was Pirates! (from around 1990?), which was re-released a few years ago as Sid Meier's Pirates!

[AuroraDizon]

Rogue looks exactly like ZZT this thing I use to play with a long time ago. You can design your own games basically all those little things to pick up and stuff you can make it do. It was pretty entertaining, but it looks exactly like that with the little smilie guy and letters spread around. You could make your own game or play one that people made. Some can be rather amusing but its all dos stuff. Decent list, wow at #1 lol nice. Does the original everquest count it rather started the phenomina I think eq original turns 10 on march 15th... o0 ever sorry thought it said last 10 years. What about Balders Gate? That was pretty groundbreaking and a classic. Glad myst made the list.

[adoobi05]

what is this list
I think you create it before 30 years ago.
The list contains very old games that was invented at the age of computer creation.
Where is Need for speed and big revelution they made to the racing games?
What about the greatest war game so far Company of heros
Your list is not even close to reality
Your topic title should be : "Best game before 80's"
Good luck next time
and plz update your information about GAMES

[rkinne01]

Not a bad list, though I would have switched Starcraft for Diablo 2. Diablo 2 is an old game that still has a large following., think more people are still playing D2 than Starcraft.

[kengland2]

Nice list. It'll help me to monitor the bargain bins. I don't have much time to play games these days, but I started with a Mattel Aquarius in 1983, and was extremely thrilled to move up to an Atari 800XL, and then an Atari 1040 STe. After picking up an Atari Jaguar along the way, I finally entered the Pentium 3/4 AMD Athlon era.
There were many good 8-bit games. One I really enjoyed was Karateka. Zork III has to be the best text adventure of all time (also originating on BBS systems), and I believe there was the classic, "Adventure" of the same genre. The Bounty Bob series usurped PLENTY of my time, and was just incredible. I've forgotten more great 8-bit games than I can remember. On to 64-bit land...
Alien vs Predator, on the Atari Jaguar (I know, not a computer game, but I have that version, as well) was very transformative at the the time. Fast action, plenty of levels, and choice of being a marine, alien, or predator, not to mention, VERY scary sound effects and a great score! I was actually bored with the PC version.
Pitfall II and Pitfall: the Mayan Adventures were a great update on the original. I only have them on the non-computer versions, but I'm sure they played out the same. The "Adventures" had a portal whereby you could actually play the original Pitfall for a while. Very fun.
I'm pretty surprised that Max Payne 1, Far Cry 1 or 2, or Crysis didn't make the list. Of course, these were hailed in their time. Max Payne was probably the first computer game that I felt represented the PINNACLE of realism that was possible with a computer game. I can walk down my street right now, and still hear the distinctive "swinging door" sound effect emanating out of a neighbor's window.
There are many others I can't think of right now, deserving of mention, but that's the beauty of the great cache of games that we have to choose from. Nice article!

[denroy3]

This list was a serious waste of time.
The #10 slot had me going "huh". And it didn't get much better.

[cystarkman]

Your definition of a PC seemed okay until I looked through the list.
So what happened to the C64, the Amiga, ZX Spectrum, the list goes on.
Perhaps except for your token entry on the Atari every item on this list is for the Microsoft OS (with some ported to other places)
You say keyboard and user programable is the criteria. Well anyone would have to say that the MS OS is hardly user programable. I mean the C64 booted into a programming language. Good luck writing a game out of the box with MS Anything.
Where's a Sierra game, any one of them. What about a Psygnosis game. How about Ocean, Epic.
Most crap article, ever.

[noprem]

You don't mention the ubiquitous "404 NOT FOUND"- the most popular one in the article as I [tried to] read it online!
Doug