[number6]

coastie65 said:

Hey rg, point well taken and your right. I am all for free enterprise, but when you have a company that controls roughly 85% of the market and is seemingly exploiting that position, that some constraints need to be put in place by an outside entity to help protect the consumer from predatory or exploitive business practices. That was my point. One question to ask yourself is this: Are OS's being written to keep up with the hardware or are the OEM's having to build hardware to keep of with the OS ? If it is the latter, then Micro$oft has too much control. coastie

In a free market, when a company has stupid business practices, they lose control because the customers don't like it and stop buying. It's when the government gets involved that you end up with monopolies. When the U.S. Post Office gets your mail to you late or not at all, what can you do about it? Nothing, because it's government-controlled and government-protected. That's not the case with Microsoft. They're power will last only so long if the government doesn't protect them.

[piyushsingh]

laplane said:

as a non-techie, i'm not into researching for different programs that might work both with vista and my camcorder. nor would i be into doing that for the other xp-friendly programs that weren't vista-friendly. because this wasn't the only thing from the past that was giving me problems with vista, i decided to invest instead in a second computer - one with xp. i was using this example to show that vista is problematic in a number of ways, and in my case at least i had no choice at the time but to accept the vista-loaded computer. i was stuck with a monster that can do loads of things that i don't need but is not able to do loads of things that i do need, and that i had no problem doing with xp.

you missed my point. Still vista is problematic ??

Okayy lets take the example of my wireless USB adapter from netgear. The things works well with xp, vista , win7 beta. It works partially with ubuntu 8.10 .The problem is that it will keep on disconnecting after short intervals. The problem is known at ubuntu forums. Well, I wont say Ubuntu is problematic. But the netgear people are. They should give linux drivers also. As they dont give for this product, I would accept it is my fault as I took a product without checking compatibility with OSes I use (or may use in near future) . I wont brand an entire OS as problematic based on this.

[Tech4me]

Well ...Then again ...That lady 'd turn around and sue the store or "whoever made that Pc" to sell her an Unusable Pc .....Cos... there is NO OS in it.....?????

For the record I 'm NOT a FAN of MS or any .... It 's just irritated to see those lawyers taking advantage of people ... The thing is...We let them...

Die....lawyers......Die......

[coastie65]

[quote name='number6']
>

coastie65 said:

> Hey rg, point well taken and your right. I am all for free enterprise, but when you have a company that controls roughly 85% of the market and is seemingly exploiting that position, that some constraints need to be put in place by an outside entity to help protect the consumer from predatory or exploitive business practices. That was my point. One question to ask yourself is this: Are OS's being written to keep up with the hardware or are the OEM's having to build hardware to keep of with the OS ? If it is the latter, then Micro$oft has too much control. coastie
In a free market, when a company has stupid business practices, they lose control because the customers don't like it and stop buying. It's when the government gets involved that you end up with monopolies. When the U.S. Post Office gets your mail to you late or not at all, what can you do about it? Nothing, because it's government-controlled and government-protected. That's not the case with Microsoft. They're power will last only so long if the government doesn't protect them.

Micro$oft can get away with the "Stupid Business Practices" and they know it. They have the users by the short hairs as it were. Sure, you can go to the expenive Apple / Mac, with it's less than abundant software or just throw the thing out the Window and forget about a computer altogether. You have to take into account what the overwhelming majority of software is being written for. When you are controlling 85% of a market, then outside oversight is called for, to keep whoever in check. You are talking as if it is a level playing field out there. It isn't by a long shot. As to an earlier post, there are custom builders out there that will ship without an OS, if you look for them, or you can build your own.

[number6]

Software is being written for Windows because most people use Windows. When people stop liking Windows and stop buying it, the software writers will stop writing for it. Government intervention always has bad side effects (whether intended or not). They always distort markets and cause problems where the market would have corrected them in due time.

[coastie65]

Hey Techie, I doubt seriously if she had a job that required IT or anything close. I expect this was her first computer as well and probably has no working knowledge of a computer. She did have a pretty elaborate cell phone, so I expect maybe she may figure the computer out. Stuff like that, I usually buy online and not from a retail store. I'll probably build my next one though as I have some unused XP installation disks around here. I'm not taking the woman's side as I think there are way too many frivolous lawsuits out there as it is. I don't expect this one will fly either. This probably more about a Lawyer looking for an opening to score some big bucks, as we all know that Class action lawsuits usually end with the Lawyers getting the bucks and the people getting a coupon. Those things invariably end up costing the consumer in the long run. As others have said too, this amounts to double dipping as some buys a computer with one OS and then has to pay for a second OS of their choice. Now if they wanted to be fair, then they should issue a credit for Vista that was being removed.



That having been said, your posts have been well written and thought out. You have presented your perspective well. I do agree with you on some points. My major issue is with Micro$oft's business practices which I find exploitive and maybe a bit of extortion in a sense, due to their over whelming market share. As has been stated, you can always go the custom build route or build your own and do an end around on Micro$oft. coastie

[rgreen4]

Reading the manual, it only says that in order to transfer the files you need their cable (optional of course) with a mini-DV connection at one end and a IEEE-1394 connection at the other. Now IEEE-1394 is a firewire connection that is not normally found on windows PC's. They are on Macs. Many after market motherboards that custom builder use do have them (my machine actually has two), but there are add in cards available (mentioned in the user guide) to put in the PC and transfer the video.

It does not mention what program is needed, but most video editing programs should be able to capture the video, if the right connection and cable were there. Ulead by Corel is one that I have used, not to capture video, but I know the option is there, but to edit video. Video editing software did in many cases have to be rewritten because they wrote video straight to the graphics card rather than go through the kernel as MS advised all to do a decade ago. Ulead Video Studio 11 (for XP or Vista) was released in Sept/Oct 2007 and was recently updated to Video Studio Pro X2.

As to the discs not being able to be read, I do not know why that would be the case. I have a number of data CD's that I have burned over the years, and have never had a failure unless the CD were damaged in which case no machine in the house would read it. CD-R's are stable and CD-RW's will cause problems going from one machine to another if the CD read head in the second machine was not aligned exactly as the first. I have had read failure on CD-RW's going from one XP machine to another XP machine. That is a hardware issue most often. Without more details it is impossible to solve. I have burned DVD-RW's on a DVR and read them on a Vista machine for editing.

[coastie65]

Guess what, this Emachines has a firewire connection that has gone ignored.

[WinTard]

[quote name='number6']
>

WinTard said:

> I agree with you everyone should be entitled to purchase hardware without operating system preloaded. Do you agree?

>I would agree if there were a seller willing to sell it that way, but if you don't like what's available you shouldn't force anyone to make it available.

I completely agree with you in principle Sir! And if a hardware seller, doesn't fit my requirements, I simply look elsewhere too.

Now you stating "if there were a seller willing to sell it that way"... Please look at Dell, and others... They are out there. You just have to be diligent and look for the gems. Any typical mom and pop computer store, is more than willing to sell you whatever you require.

Or simply build your own. Who says one has to buy brand name? Please check this out as a starter platform. For those who can't do it, just let your kids show you how to.



PS: I certainly wouldn't look up to the silly lady suing Microsoft as an example of wisdom to follow... What she displays is a total lack of common sense!
And TigerDirect is arguably a brand name too?

~~~~~~~~~~
Wisdom is: The best means towards the best end.
~ Tony Orbin

There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.
~ Warren Buffett

Simple wins!
~ Bayer

All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
~ Winston Churchill

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
~ Confucius

[rkinne01]

If Best Buy didn't offer what you wanted then why buy from them? Did you Check Staples? Office Depot? Gateway? Dell? Frye's? Or even your local mom and pop computer store? Try doing your home work next time BEFORE you buy, in less than 30 seconds I found several places that were more than happy to sell me a PC with XP. The bottom line is don't buy products from companies that don't offer what you want, not a hard concept.

[number6]

Oh, good. I wasn't sure.

[WinTard]

coastie65 said:

Guess what, this Emachines has a firewire connection that has gone ignored.

Well, that's why eMachines are cheap to purchase. Brand name manufacturers aren't necessarily experts at computers. They're mere vendors trying to make money, selling sub-standard products similar to those bargains you can find at flea markets.

Most brand-name computers are preloaded with illogic and unoptimized installation images, full of bloatware, conflicting and other useless crap.

When I get a brand-name, I re-image it with an expertly crafted configuration, that works to my satisfaction. Anything else would be uncivilized.

So for your eMachine, simply let window suggest an appropriate driver found on the web. You will stand much more chances of success with a certified WHQL Microsoft driver, that they reviewed, and blessed as "won't reduce Windows reliability".

Simple, just let her rip! And Windows will find the appropriate firewire driver, automatically on the Internet for you.

Oh, and I NEVER allow any non-WHQL certified drivers onto any of the systems I manage. Perhaps that explains why I don't experience a rash of instability or crashes?

I reiterate my simple belief: Most of the computing problems root cause sits between the chair and keyboard.

~~~~~~~~~~
One can still drive the best engineered car, into a brick wall... (at full speed no less) And some do.

[coastie65]

Hi Win, :D Trust me, this thing performs quite well, now that I've pushed it about as far as it will go. I haven't really had a need for firewire as yet and tend to forget it is there. All the bloatware has been long gone from this thing. In the Spring of '08, I took it and wiped the Hdd and reinstalled the OS and drivers and that was it. As I said, it is a pretty good box and tried some of the High end game demos to see how they would do. They did well with good frame rates and such. It's not your typical off the shelf eMachines, that's for sure. One of these days, I'll look around for a new Micro ATX MOBO with a bigger memory and system bus and start all over again I suppose. Then again I may just start from scratch with a new midtower case. coastie

[WinTard]

The basis of software engineering is predictability and functionality attained through the proper use of function calls parameterized with appropriate values. That is always done according to the Application Programming Interface (API). Any wacko attempting to go through the kernel directly is not a real software engineer, because he/she would understand the kernel changes constantly, with each and every patch, and that DLL's aren't always resident into memory since they are Dynamically Loaded Libraries by the operating system in the first place triggered by application programs going through the API interface...

Thus M$ isn't trying to block functionality, but ignorant so-called programmers are just not aware of a specific and existing API calls to fit the purpose.

Please google: Results 1 - 10 of about 5,590,000 for how many win api calls are there. (0.29 seconds)

A simple primer is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32

>The Windows API, informally WinAPI, is Microsoft's core set of application programming interfaces (APIs) available in the Microsoft Windows operating systems. It was formerly called the Win32 API; however, the name Windows API more accurately reflects its roots in 16-bit Windows and its support on 64-bit Windows. Almost all Windows programs interact with the Windows API; a small number (such as programs started early in the Windows startup process) use the Native API [1].
>
>The Microsoft Windows SDK (Software Development Kit) is available for Windows, which provides documentation and tools to enable developers to create software using the Windows API and associated Windows technologies.

[WinTard]

Hey coastie65, I'm with you! I am glad problems are fixed. And I truly believe you and I are having fun tinkering with these fabulous toys! Similar to kids on stakeboards, doing unimaginable and impossible stunts... They are just discovering what they are capable of.

Learning is useful, but above all FUN! :D

~~~~~~~~~
Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere.
{Chinese Proverb}

Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival.
~ W. Edwards Deming

A little learning is a dangerous thing but a lot of ignorance is just as bad.
~ Bob Edwards

Learning is the process of discovering something is possible.
~ Confucius

[coastie65]

WinTard said:

Hey coastie65, I'm with you! I am glad problems are fixed. And I truly believe you and I are having fun tinkering with these fabulous toys! Similar to kids on stakeboards, doing unimaginable and impossible stunts... They are just discovering what they are capable of.

Learning is useful, but above all FUN! :D

~~~~~~~~~
Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere.
{Chinese Proverb}

Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival.
~ W. Edwards Deming

A little learning is a dangerous thing but a lot of ignorance is just as bad.
~ Bob Edwards

Learning is the process of discovering something is possible.
~ Confucius

Hi Win, :D My "Tinkering" has had the results of sending shivers down a few spines. I remember mentioning one time about not having anything better to do, so decided to flash the bios in this thing. I went to an Intel BioS from the eMachines BioS. Seemed to do Ok, but decided I best go back to the eMachines BioS. That presented a brief moment of anxiety when it didn't boot and I discovered that the Hdd need to be enabled in BioS. It was something to do. It is an Intel MOBO in here, with a third party Chipset ( Packard - Bell I think ). They refer to it as a "Mature" MoBo. Whem I went from the Pentium D 805 Processor, to the Pentium D 945, I had to upgrade the BioS as well for the new processor. Thanks for the above post as well. I found that to be very enlightening and it filled in some gaps of my very limited knowledge of such things. coastie

[Evildave]

[quote name='piyushsingh']
>

Evildave said:

> People only BELIEVE that they don't have a choice but to drive a fossil fuel powered car.
>
> People only BELIEVE that they are stuck with Micro$uck.
>
> Yes, I do know that I can order and configure a barebones PC however I like.
>
> Most people DO NOT know this.

Oh my gawd, some people are so narrow minded.

Whats wrong with advertising ? Whats wrong with trying to sell your product in a legal way ?
Isnt Apple promoting their products ? Isnt Ubuntu offering free OS discs shipped right to your door steps ? Its totally fair. People SEE and then CHOOSE what they want ?

People 'see and choose' only what they are aware of.

What they are 'aware of' is mainly what people pay billions to tell them.

People have expensive blinders placed over their faces to make sure they ONLY see the things that those people who paid for those blinders want them to see.

For instance, corporations that advertise heavily literally control the news.

You don't believe it?

http://query.nytimes...756C0A966958260

When millions, even billions in advertising revenue are on the line, most media companies will buckle under the slightest hint of backlash.

So when a big advertiser like Microsoft throws their weight around about carrying content that they don't like to intimidate news sources, they often get their way. So only Microsoft-friendly content appears on TV, just as every station now knows not to carry content from OTHER advertisers that the BIG advertisers don't like.

Win-Win for everyone but the consumers.

"You're a good boy. Just down that stall. It's almost over. See the nice man with the pneumatic tool?"

[WinTard]

rkinne01 said:

Again did you even read the article YOU posted? She didn't get $2.86 million, YOUR article stated that she ended up with less than $600,000. The attorney fees she had to pay were enormous and the medical bills likely were sizabale as well, she probably ended up with a small fraction of the settlement. The article says the coffee was at 180 Degrees, easily hot enough to cause serious injury.

Yes people die in car accidents everyday and lose body parts, but if the accident is a result of defective products or services they deserve justice and to be compensated. I would like to know how we can put a price on someone's body parts? How much is your thumb or leg worth to you?

I work with handicapped people and let me tell it isn't cheap to adapt to life with a disability. Artificial limbs are not cheap and can cost thousands of dollars, alterrations to homes cost even more, and this isn't even including medical expenses. Trust me $5,000 is nothing when your life is disrupted by a physcial limitation. I have seen many families bankrupted by even "minor" accidents.

Listen, I emphatize with all victims of wrongdoing.

In this case, I'm just saying the compensation for her own wrong doing was incommensurate with the 'tort' she claimed.

180 degrees Fahrenheit isn't 212 degrees, the boiling point of water. I'm more used to metric terminology, because it is rational, logical, predictable, and understandable. Linear in other words. Like 1 cm cube of water weighs one gram. Or the freezing point of water is zero degree Celcius, or boiling point is 100 degree Celcius... You know, some relationship, something simple that can be visualized, understood? Not this 32 degrees Fahrenheit freezing point nonsensical and illogical scale of measurement. {Fahrenheit is a temperature scale named after the German physicist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686?1736)}

I didn't say she got $2.86M. I said the STUPID jury awarded that irresponsible amount. For one spilled cup of very very hot coffee. And not by McDonald's employees, or someone else, but by herself! Onto herself! Therefore, she bears most of the responsibility for causing that 'tort' to herself! And as for the plaintiff's attorneys, they milked the system royally, by claiming the coffee was defective and dangerous!

And yes, you can get scalding burns from 80 degrees Celcius of any hot beverage or soup...

Now try to drink any hot beverage without caution, and see what happens. So what, someone else will sue for their own careless wrongdoing? But to claim the coffee was dangerous is ludicrous! She is a danger to herself, and probably others. That is why it is called a 'dis-ability'. Sounds reason-able?

Yes I read the entire article, and many more... I'm a eBook worm. So?

Please google: Results 1 - 10 of about 141,000 for most common drug addiction coffee. (0.22 seconds)

Quote

Caffeine Addiction - The most common stimulant on the market. The most common stimulant on the market today, Caffeine is used by 80-90% of Americans on a daily basis . Caffeine is found in coffee, tea, diet and regular sodas, ... By:Drug Addiction Couns Posted: Jan 19 2009 02:44:03 AM ...
therapistunlimited.com/index/Articles/Addictions/Caffeine+Addiction - 59k -

Okay, extrapolate a little: If 80-90% of Americans drink the stimulant drug caffeine on a daily basis, not to mention the rest of the world, let's be generous on thin safe side, assume only 1% of the world's population drinks a coffee once a day, that represents 60,000,000 cups per day. Multiply by 365 days in a year, thus 21,900,000,000 cups of hot coffee are consumed by the general population at-large. Just in one year, what are the statistical probabilities of someone getting burned? Well certainly more than that single unfortunate, accident prone lady. And how many get $600K tort awards for each burn? Now is that fair?

I'm saying judgements like this are obscene, and a travesty of justice. I didn't say the lady did not suffer. But fair is fair: She Did It To HERSELF.

That is the calamity with our so-called civilized society: Always point the finger at someone else:
"It wasn't my fault!"
"I didn't know the freshly brewed hot coffee was that hot..."
"I didn't know I had to pay for XP..."
:_|

I loathe gold-diggers, aka: These two ladies suing (plus the likes of Anna Nicole Smith), and all the lawyers parasites whose compensation is a direct percentage of whatever they can extort. Their motives? Greed. Follow the money! Certainly NOT JUSTICE.

PS: Have you noticed all the white-collar criminals are worse than vulgar random assault-and-battery? What's the latest scandal? $50 Billion lost? Or the case of WorldCom with $65 Billion lost? Or Nortel Networks, once the darlings of the stock markets, trading at $180 per share, now worth zero, and in bankruptcy? How many unfortunate people lost their entire life-savings and retirements with the like of those crooks?

And we get all this brouhaha about a mere less than $100 fee for XP? Whereas, I bet you that just the filing of this ludicrous lawsuit already cost more than $10K in lawyers' fees on both sides...

What a waste! Now imagine, if this money were used for altruistic purposes, like give it to somebody needy...

And If I had a mere million dollars in the bank, I could live off easily the rest of my entire life comfortably, without ever requiring touching the principal, just living off the interests... Then give the principal to my kids as a legacy.

~~~~~~~~~~
For a good life, follow the three R's
1) Respect of self
2) Respect of others
3) Responsibility for all your actions
~ The Dalai Lama

There is no greater calamity than being consumed by greed.
{Chinese Proverb}

[WinTard]

>Evildave wrote:
>They even pay for shills to go around on the web and argue with people about how 'wonderful' all of those Micro$uck products are.

While I agree with most of what you say, you conveniently forget to mention the likes of Apple, as #1 in the marketing department, and spending big dollars on propaganda. And show um some bias towards M$.

You wouldn't be one of those shills you talk about would you?

[WinTard]

Tech4me said:

Well ...Then again ...That lady 'd turn around and sue the store or "whoever made that Pc" to sell her an Unusable Pc .....Cos... there is NO OS in it.....?????

For the record I 'm NOT a FAN of MS or any .... It 's just irritated to see those lawyers taking advantage of people ... The thing is...We let them...


Die....lawyers......Die......

Hi Tech4me, I completely agree with you!!!

And I am not a fan of anybody either. I'm just an anarchist trying to be agnostic towards any and all.

Just saying it like I see it. Damn the consequences!

Cheers!