[rasmasyean]

Translation:
"The world doesn't play by MY rules so I don't wanna play anymore! Why can't everyone just do what my big brother Mozzilla says? He's my hero so everyone should listen to him! Everything else anyone makes is trash and no one should ever use it."

[janekMZ]

WinTard, my comment wasn't meant to bash anyone. I'm an engineer and when I see hard numbers it's in my nature to question what the numbers represent. You say "those who choose non IE could refrain from justifying their decisions,
by perpetuating the fallacy that IE is an inferior less secure product
than their own", the "fallacy that IE is an inferior less secure" is that a fact or your opition? Cause if I can find ONE instance where IE is less secure than any other browser, then those users that choose FF/Opera/Chrome have the right to express why they chose a browser other than IE.
Message was edited by: AuroraDizon - personal attacks removed

[rasmasyean]

I suppose you are ONE engineer.
Not that there are many other "engineers" all over factory floors and power plants and such.
And what's there? IE systems displaying all sorts of data and applications for machinery and robots and workflow and data management....
Where the heck does FireFox and Chrome come in? Maybe every other engineer besides you is clueless.
Perphaps there are a few "engineers" or others who download FF on their personal laptops for whatever reason...everyone has thier preference for many uses, fine. But is it because they think their company should colapse because it's using IE all over?
Are you talking about being a "software engineer" or "CISCO certified engineer"? That's not a real engineer, btw!

[janekMZ]

haha, no. I'm an electrical engineer. Sure there are companies that use MS software on their systems, and if it works for them that's fine; but when stuff breaks then it might be cost effective to switch. For example, Outlook fried 2 network cards on a laptop. The motherboard was replaced and Vista instead of XP was loaded. Now with Vista, the laptop runs so slow that I decided not to use it. I might get Linux installed on it because all the applications that I require will run on Linux. As for e-mail I'm using a desktop. My company uses many MS programs, but we also use a lot of Linux systems.

I do run Linux at home, but I also have XP. I chose FF (both on Linux and XP) cause it's simple to use and I like the layout. IE7 has its menus and buttons in such a positions that it makes surfing for me slower. My friend uses IE7, and he always gets viruses that popup bunch of windows asking him to d/l an antivirus program, and the virus dissables IE7 and he can't surf the web. Even though it might be his fault, or his kids', IE shouldn't be voulnerible to such issues.

[coastie65]

janekMZ said:

. My friend uses IE7, and he always gets viruses that popup bunch of windows asking him to d/l an antivirus program, and the virus dissables IE7 and he can't surf the web. Even though it might be his fault, or his kids', IE shouldn't be voulnerible to such issues.

Hi Jane, I use IE7 and have none of those kinds of problems. I would say he possibly has a trojan in there and it is due to whatever Security software he has installed. I would bet that the computer is infected though. Point is, that is not really an IE7 issue, but a lack of security, or poor security apps installed on the computer. coastie

[WinTard]

janekMZ said:

haha, no. I'm an electrical engineer. Sure there are companies that use MS software on their systems, and if it works for them that's fine; but when stuff breaks then it might be cost effective to switch. For example, Outlook fried 2 network cards on a laptop. The motherboard was replaced and Vista instead of XP was loaded. Now with Vista, the laptop runs so slow that I decided not to use it. I might get Linux installed on it because all the applications that I require will run on Linux. As for e-mail I'm using a desktop. My company uses many MS programs, but we also use a lot of Linux systems.

I do run Linux at home, but I also have XP. I chose FF (both on Linux and XP) cause it's simple to use and I like the layout. IE7 has its menus and buttons in such a positions that it makes surfing for me slower. My friend uses IE7, and he always gets viruses that popup bunch of windows asking him to d/l an antivirus program, and the virus dissables IE7 and he can't surf the web. Even though it might be his fault, or his kids', IE shouldn't be voulnerible to such issues.

As an EE you should know that is impossible. How can one fry TWO network cards on a laptop, simply by running Outlook? Sorry buddy, but I cannot believe anything you say after that statement.

Regardless of how many packets are transmitted through the hardware implementation of the chip doing Ethernet and / or Wireless, won't affect the hardware at all. PERIOD. The network may be jammed, packets colliding, but no way can you fry any network card simply by maxing it out. Doh!

And the very reason I use FF is because it is open-source, and works the same on all platforms. Hence it's inferiority. It doesn't know about the ClearType technology, used in Microsoft products. Have you ever attempted to read mathematical and / or scientific symbols in FF? Simply atrocious! Unreadable IMHO. But that's JMHO.

[rasmasyean]

It's those flash pages that come up and runs a simulation of an XP "Window" that looks like it's scanning for viruses and detects something.
It even does a "XP dialog popup" in the middle of the browser window for you to click it and lead you to a bogus software sale site...or download a virus.
Of course this is all happenning within the browser even though it looks like XP (even when you are using like Vista).
To someone who doesn't figure that out, it will probably work. Except, if you are using another OS it's pretty obvious because you won't get that "shock effect" that will make you dumb for a couple of minutes.


Here's a screenshot for you.

[janekMZ]

here's what happend with the network cards. On a monday moring I logged in and opened Outlook, I noticed that Outlook said it wasn't connected to the server. Then I noticed that my network card didn't have connection to the network. I called IT, and a guy showed up. He spent about an hour, unable to fix it he took the laptop with him. He brought it back after lunch and said he couldn't fix it and he gave me an PCMCIA network card. I was able to surf the web, with IE7. Then before going home I decided to open Outlook, and bang, the PCMCIA NIC got fried. No web, and no connectiotion to our network.

it's up to you if you believe me or not, i'm just stating what the situation was with the NICs. The way I see it, it was Outlook; and if you have a different explenation I welcome it.

[coastie65]

In short, Hardware issue, not software ( rules out Outlook ). coastie

[janekMZ]

can you provide how you arrived at your conclution? What are the chances that two different NICs have the same failuire and both happening when Outlook was launched?

[coastie65]

> Pure simple logic. Software cannot under any circumstance "Fry" hardware period. What fries hardware is too much current to the affected hardware. Example: I knew someone who was working on a computer during a thunderstorm and lost her Internet connection. When I checked it, the internal modem was fried. I found it was due to the phone line was improperly grounded, and there was a surge of electricity that came through the line to the modem and fried it. Fortunately, the modem acted like a fuse and protected the rest of the computer and she was lucky as nothing else was harmed. If in fact the NIC cards are getting fried, then there is an underlying hardware problem that is causing it and not Outlook. What that may be, I don't have a clue at the moment. I have been playing with these computers for a while now, so it isn't something I pulled out of the air. coastie

[WinTard]

So what, you stopped using Outlook, and the network cards stopped frying?

I think if this were the case, Microsoft would have quite a legitimate class action lawsuit on their hands... LOL!

[janekMZ]

coastie, WinTard



let me clarify, when I said
"fried" I meant that the NICs broke. And you assume
that when a hardware gets fried there is a visible damage; a small
single component can get "fried" due to over-current, and
you will never see any physical damage if the damage is done inside
an IC. Whatever Outlook did to the NICs, or the laptop, (hardware or
software), both NICs stopped working.



I would love to see an explanation to
this, so do please continue your inputs.

[coastie65]

Exactly, you don't have to have crispy melted mess. Just one small internal component is all it takes. At first blush, the modem in the computer looked OK, but with a closer inspection, I found the damage. As you said, in order to fry something, you have to have an over current situation. It doesn't mean the the affected hardware will go up in a blaze of glory and smoke. The smoke does happen at times though. Software does not generate current, so conversely, can do nothing to affect the hardware. Personaly, I would have gone into the Device manager after the second NIC card failed to see if the system was even detecting the card. If not, then that would have been the place to start. If it was on the same router, than possibly, resetting the router may have been in order. Again, it wasn't outlook. coastie

[WinTard]

JanekMZ, by fried, I mean it stopped working... And you didn't explain how come other users of Outlook do not experience your incident... And you didn't even answer my first question, are you still using Outlook? In your company? Are the other Outlook users experiencing the same loss of NIC just for using Outlook? Why only YOUR laptop?

[rasmasyean]

If there is any link to Outlook, it may be that an Outlook virus you got from an email or DL or something in the past caused it to mess up your registry or some other setting regarding the network connection. It's not going to "fry" it however. You can try to create a new user or re-install the OS and both NIC's will prolly still work (if it was a virus). I don't think it's impossible that a virus can start on a program's launch and scramble the settings of the current logical network. That would be my guess of the problem.

[TechieXP]

the 64bit version of IE on any version of Windows doesn't work very well. If a page isn't built with 64bit code then the browser doesn't work that well. But it does ok...just use the 32bit version...its in the program files(x86) folder in xp x64 and vista x64 windows 7 x64

[jazzy5]

janeMZ, I do not understand how you can call yourself a Electrical Engineer and state than a software program fried a modern and a NIC card. To make it worse you call IT to do the work for you. First for the IT department get working things fast that are not working is to replace the damage part. Some good IT people will look for the cause of the problem. But your IT guy did not. Maybe because you were bashing him to much or he thinks you are a jerk. If your answer to your problem is to blame Outlook, and by the comments of your post you hate everything that have to do with Microsoft, than there is nothing anyone can tell you that will change your mind. Any thing that goes wrong in your life is because Microsoft. Any engineer, especially a electrical engineer will know better.

In reference to IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari and Opera, I have tried them. I still fine out I like more IE than the others. All have vulnerability, that is why Microsoft do Tuesday updates, but so does Firefox. IE does let me enjoy the full glory of the internet, but I am careful were I go in the web. The purpose of the browser is to let you go out there in the internet, just like you leave your house every morning. There is danger out there, you can be hit by a car, be mugged, etc. You can minimized this by being careful were you go.

IF speed is your thing in the micro second range, than I apologies by not recognizing you as Flash.

[rasmasyean]

Maybe Jane is an old school EE. Perhaps she was part of the people who brought electriticy to many parts of the country but doesn't know how to use a computer. hehe

[janekMZ]

I'll try to make this short and address
the previous posts from other users.



WinTard,



We still use Outlook, company policy.
I was the only one that experienced this type of issue. I do not
know why it only happened to my laptop, and with two different NICs.

---



coastie65,



If software makes the wrong decisions
and activates wrong components, then that can cause damage to other
components. And if I recall correctly, last year a beta version of
Ubuntu 8.10 caused NICs with certain Intel chipsets to be “fried”
beyond repair. Canonical decided to disable the drivers (software)
for those particular chipsets to prevent damaging the NICs. The
drivers were fixed before final Ubuntu 8.10 was released.



If the router was to blame, how come
the web worked? The NIC stopped working when I launched Outlook. We
did look at the device manager, it showed that the device was working
properly. Also the link/Activity lights on the NICs did light up
(after a reboot), but still no connection to the network. Other PCs
connected to the same network port do work, even with Outlook. Also,
the IT guy worked on it at his desk, assuming he was connected to a
different router the NIC still did not work.



---



rasmasyean,



The IT guy did reinstall the OS, the
internal NIC still did not work (I don't know if the PCMCIA NIC
worked). He placed a warranty claim and the motherboard was
replaced, along with the NIC. Vista was installed and Outlook now
works. Perhaps it was a virus, but probably was tided to Outlook
cause that was the only time the NIC stopped working.



---



Jazzy5



read above about Ubuntu and how a
software CAN “fry” a NIC, and I'm proud to be an EE. Second of
all, it's my company policy to notify IT, I don't have admin account
to run diagnostics on the NIC or the network; and why not contact
them, they might have seen the same issue before and could have fixed
it easily, instead of me reinventing the wheel.



And for your information, I did not
bash my IT guy. In fact we get along just fine. It's guys like you
that bash others for your own problems, later to have an IT guy tell
you that you need to plug the power cord in.



Also, in my personal experience I have
seen more issues with Windows and IE than with Linux and Firefox. I'm
not saying that they are perfect, I still have to weak them time to
time, but I do not get popups asking me to download a bogus software.