[dnalop]

I wonder if focusing on promoting Linux here would be more beneficial than criticizing it. You do may come across as a whiner when criticizing something that it's free. I have an idea; if there is a way, try donating some money with appropriate remarks for improvements and you may get some attention with results. Everybody will benefit, no?

[nobodyimportant]

I don't care enough about my operating system enough to listen to critics. If it gets in my way, it's not doing its job - all of them manage to do this, except Vista on bad days.
What would you say about Linux anyway?
"It's too ugly."
"It doesn't support 'x' Hardware."
"It doesn't have 'y' program," or the variant, "Program 'z' doesn't have enough functionality."
What else is there to say? The era of innovating operating systems is over. Nobody cares, as long as the thing installs okay and the programs work alright.

[JDorfler]

There is criticism amongst the community. Yes, there are those that criticize on the level of children, but I'm pretty sure stuff like that is ignored by most of the community. Yes, you do have those who reply to honest criticism in the community by telling the frustrated to learn how to program and fix it themselves or pointing out it is free and one shouldn't complain. Like everything else in the world, you have all types of people, and you only get out of something what you put in. Thus, picking and chosing the responses to your problems is a lot better than dwelling upon the negative.

Do we all wish the negative will go away? Yes we do, but unforutnately there will always be those with a superiority complex that will get in the way of that.

Are there those that complain just to complain? Yes, but again, we can get around this as well by walking right by that particular soapbox.

As long as level heads continue to exist, progress in any arena, including Linux, will come out on top.

Oh, and thanks for the Ubuntu Pocketguide.

[rgreen4]

The article is 100% correct. If Linux is ever to break out of the techie toy status to an OS that is usable by ordinary end users, they are going to have to look in the mirror and admit to themselves that not everyone in the world is a programmer.

WinTard summed up the responses most of the non-technical end-users get from the techie crowd when trying to solve a Linux problem, I know, I got a lot of them. If you ask for help on many Linux forums you get three types of responses, 1) they ignore you 2) they give you a long list of technical sites to go to and download this and then go into the command line and do that, and then; but by then you are so lost you give up or 3) in the very rare situation where your question is read by another end user who had not yet given up they come back and say they are having the same problem and if you ever find a solution, let them know.

When the netbooks first started coming out with Linux, every one was hailing it and saying it was going to be the down fall of the evil empire in Redmond, Wa with their horrible bloated Windows. Then suddenly all the real world end users were having troubles understanding Linux and using it. Then those who could returned their machines. Others who couldn't were complaining to the manufacturers, and suddenly XP started showing up on the netbooks and being installed on others by their owners. Then horrors, some models that had been available with Linux were no longer available. Did Goliath beat David?

No, I think David was undone by his own supporters. I was open to trying Linux a little over a year ago. I first ordered a book on Ubuntu which was less of a how to, and more of an I love this volume. I ordered the Live CD and the Application Library and several other CD's, about 8 in all. I first tried to install 7.10 on my old laptop which came with XP Home, even cleaning a spare drive for the install. Three hours later after successfully installing it quickly but spending the rest of the time trying to set up the wireless, I gave up and went to the forums. I figured I must be doing something wrong, but found out the next day that the built in Broadcom wireless adapter did not work with Linux unless you were one of the gifted few who could enter all the arcane codes to make it work. Then I tried it on this desktop which was new at the time (dual booting Vista and XP and wanting to make Linux the tri-boot). Got it installed, loaded FF and because it was a wired connection got to the internet. But then I had trouble with it recognizing the NAS box with all my files (Windows setup), the printers and my other computers on the network.

So, I gave up, reformatted the drive and it currently has a Windows 7 Beta on it. The crux of this long story is this, most PC users don't really care about the OS. They want something that will permit them to run an application to do work. Anything that makes that more difficult they see as a roadblock. Despite all the techie knocks about Vista, in the market place the average consumer doesn't care, because the majority of time it works just fine. They turn on their laptop for the first time and it finds their network. Five minutes later, they're on the net.

If David is to overtake Goliath, David must be compatible with all the Goliath devices and inherently recognize and read/write to the drives. If he can't, ordinary user is going to go back to Goliath, because that is how Goliath got there if the first place. After all, 28 years ago, Goliath was the 98 pound weakling getting sand kicked in his face by the predecessor OS.

So instead of dismissing the critiques and complaints, listen and respond to them. The perceived strength of Linux could be it's major weakness - OSS and the "contribute or STFU" philosophy will serve only to keep it a footnote in history never exceeding low single digits of market penetration.

Ok, everyone can start flaming now.

[JRod37]

Keir, if you need critics I'm here to help. Nothing is perfect, and I want nothing more than Linux (esp. Ubuntu) to be as close to perfect as it can be!

[richlion]

Rgreen4 may have the point, but missed a couple of things. If his wireless network does not work, he should blame it on the hardware vendors who treat Linuxes as niche operating systems. We all know devices are controled by drivers and if vendors don't bother to produce them for Linuxes, they are to blame, not the Linux community.
For many years there was a discussion about ugly fonts Linuxes - probably the most famous reason why people consider Linuxes ugly. I read quite a lot about it. You may all google as well, and then you will discover that Microsoft has it's own standard of fonts. That standard is not an open standard, just like many things Microsoft produces. Now things have changed completely and I have a Linux where fonts are as sharp as those on Windows, as long as I have a good graphics card. If you have ugly fonts in Open Office, that is because Sun doesn't bother to take care of the subject.
Rgreen4, maybe you picked the wrong distro. I myself tried a few distros using DVD Live discs before installing. You know you can download them, burn a couple of .ISO's and test the distro before you install it. This way I discovered all distros I downloaded (Ubuntu, Mandriva, Sabayon, Pc-Linux) could use my wireless network.
What you say is that you installed a linux, but didn't bother to mention which distros you used. And just because your wireless netowrk card does not work does not mean the whole Linux must be criticized. And it doesn't mean all wireless cards do not work.
I agree, there are things that you will not have on a Linux installation, some software is not available on Linuxes. But 2-3 years ago I didn't even have Skype on Linux, now I have. Maybe you are right that comercial computers sold with Linuxes failed to satisfy the needs of customers, but you didn't mention what exactly was the problem. Which graphical interface was used? Was it KDE? Maybe those computers were not setup and configured properly by professionals? It's strange to me that the reason why those computers were rejected was the fact people didn't know how to use Linux. I use the KDE and in 90% cases it's got exaclty the same functionality, the main difference is in the program names.
Take another look at Sabayon, download the version 3.5.1 and make sure you didn't miss anything.
In the end, why does every operating system have to look like Windows? Is this the only option we have? I myself use the KDE interface and It's got a 10 times better functionality than Windows. Windows simply doesn't have the flexibility.
Regards,
Richard

[bilalakhtar]

What Linux requires is an advertisement language.

[FatRichie]

YES! Exactly this!

It's always frustrated me that in a discussion of features (or lack thereof), the pendulum swings between "We're [linux flavor] so much better than Windows!" and "We're a free OS, what do you want from us?"

I've only come on the Linux scene in the last couple years, and I'm enthused about what I've experienced. But I've also seen too many discussions lead to overprotective fanboyism (on both sides), instead of constructive discussion.

[dbdouglass]

Welcome to the community. I am a strong Unix/Linux advocate and what you bring is quite welcome. It can only make Linux stronger and that is what "we" Linux lovers want. We will gladly change our deodorant if it means a better Linux, right folks? SO no complaints against complaint here...in fact "we" welcome them...rockhead

[Kinman]

Besides the smaller market than windows, and therefore lack of games and software for linux, also lack of and hard to install drivers (and all of these have to do with the market), linux is actually a lot better than windows.
The GUI has been improving over the years. I don't even need to mention about stability and security, which beat the heck out of windows.
By the way, the OSX used by imac and iphone, also the symbian system in Nokia phone are also linux.

[WinTard]

Age old controversy of those who have versus those who have not. Fundamentally jealousy.

Whatever it is they are coveting.

Why should an apple compare to a pear, orange, strawberry, blueberry, fig, raisin, pineapple, mango, or passion fruit? Don't be silly and restrict yourself. Enjoy them all!

There is no best, or ultimate. Period.

The age of medieval inquisition is over! Fanatics on all sides: GROW UP! Be good for something for a change... Don't criticize, contribute instead!

And Linux needs enthusiasts, not critics. Critics are USELESS.

To paraphrase a famous quote:
He that is good for criticizing is seldom good for anything else.
~ Benjamin Franklin, 1706-1790, American Scientist/Publisher/Diplomat

~~~~~~~~~~
If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. But above all, don't complain.
~ Maya Angelou

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live; it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
~ Oscar Wilde (Irish Poet, Novelist, Dramatist and Critic, 1854-1900)

Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
~ Confucius

When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you.
~ Lao Tzu

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
~ Galileo Galilei

If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person
If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house
If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation
If there is order in the nation, there will be Peace in the World.
{Chinese Proverb}