[bbvammy]

I did something wrong on the flight on that day and my movie monitor was rebooting.

Thats how I know it was using Red Hat.

[WinTard]

My Dell Latitude D830 laptop has a smart-card reader/writer... Ready for the next step in security I suppose? Well XP, Vista, Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 are ready. And my Sun workstation also has the smart-card slot too! But alas, I have never used either, yet... I wonder if Apple has a smart card slot? Or does one need to carry an external USB smart-card reader?

Please Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 57,800,000 for smart-card [definition]. (0.13 seconds)

You know, like used on Visa, American Express, and satellite providers?

[WinTard]

Oh I forgot to mention that Microsoft is very good in letting anyone try all their products offerings for free! If you don't see it, simply call Microsoft 1.800.microsoft. They will oblige. Here's what they offered me: If we had 2000 users, then they would send me the full package for evaluation for free (no shipping charges, next day courier). However, since this is not the case currently for me (I used to work for a large organization of 120,000 desktops, not counting servers and all other nodes) they suggested I go buy whatever Microsoft Software from any authorized wholesaler, distributor or retailer, to keep the invoice, and at the conclusion of the evaluation, simply send them the bill, and they would refund it in full. No questions asked. I am sure they would offer the same to anybody requesting same. I would as a precaution, keep all correspondence and forward with the invoice. Microsoft is a world-class enterprise run by true professionals, understanding the business down to a fine-art. Numbers don't lie.

But generally, one can find most anything on the Internet for download.

Please Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 1,590,000 for download evaluation of windows server 2008. (0.16 seconds)

>http://www.microsoft...l-software.aspx

And I am so happy to be evaluating Windows 7 Ultimate x64, for free too! Even though Microsoft sent me a key, I didn't bother to activate the beta. As I expect to try the latest and greatest as it comes out.

>

Alas the same cannot be said for Apple OS X or Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server... Shame isn't it? What, are they afraid to compete in the real-world? And let their products talk for themselves?

[ShineOn]

The chart shows an overall trend for a very long period of time. The trend is that, although in sheer numbers Apache continues to grow, its share of the market is decreasing relative to IIS. IIS still trails by over 40 million sites, and both continue to grow in sheer numbers.

Still, that has nothing to do with anyone using less Linux in the enterprise. Apache is not Linux.

Also, as I said, the only places in the entire page you linked to that mentions Linux is in the sections with the stats on the top 10 most reliable sites. That's reliable, not popular. I only mentioned those stats because it's the only place where Linux or Windows are mentioned. The chart you point at and say "see, see, Linux is shrinking" is not even measuring OS usage - it's strictly web server counts. Irrelevant.

And further, this article only talks about server shipments. The number of physical servers that shipped with a particular OS installed. It does not measure "quantity of installations" any more than the web server chart measures "quantity of installations."

To use the numbers gathered to generate that web server market share chart and try to correlate that with server OS installations in the enterprise is akin to saying "Soy milk market share relative to whole cow's milk is increasing, so that means everyone is eating tofu instead of steak." I'll keep enjoying my steak, thank you, and will continue to install more Linux.

[ShineOn]

Besides being way off-topic, that's really beside the point, isn't it?

Windows and related products run on commodity Intel or Intel-compatible hardware. Mac OS, until very recently, only ran on Mac hardware. It now runs on Intel hardware but not just any Intel hardware - it's still Apple hardware.

If Apple were to sell their OS in a form capable of running on just any old Intel box, then you have a basis for comparison. Until that happens, if it does, you need to have their hardware already in order to use their software, so free trials are sort of moot.

The big differentiator you don't mention in your Microsoft shill post is that Linux not only can be downloaded, it's free - not just a "free trial." You never have to pay anyone a license fee to use it - not just try it but use it.

Anyway, all that is, again, way off topic. Has nothing to do with the questionable conclusion of this article or the accuracy of the use of "server shipments" statistics to measure usage in the enterprise.

[WinTard]

I don't care about trends. I just use whatever is best for the purpose at the moment. I am agnostic towards all types of OS. Just that I never encountered the need for OS X yet...

Our corporate mail servers, web servers, ftp servers, application servers are all linux Debian based. Nope, we didn't go Exchange. Yet all our main corporate servers are all Dell based with Microsoft as the underlying infrastructure... And in cosolidation, we're replacing the discrete servers, by virtualization. Heterogeneous systems architecture;That was my choice.

~~~~~~~~~~
Wistom is the best means towards the best ends.
~ Tony Orbin

[WinTard]

> [~207714] 5 posts since April 5, 2009

ShineOn said:

Besides being way off-topic, that's really beside the point, isn't it?

Windows and related products run on commodity Intel or Intel-compatible hardware. Mac OS, until very recently, only ran on Mac hardware. It now runs on Intel hardware but not just any Intel hardware - it's still Apple hardware.

If Apple were to sell their OS in a form capable of running on just any old Intel box, then you have a basis for comparison. Until that happens, if it does, you need to have their hardware already in order to use their software, so free trials are sort of moot.

The big differentiator you don't mention in your Microsoft shill post is that Linux not only can be downloaded, it's free - not just a "free trial." You never have to pay anyone a license fee to use it - not just try it but use it.

>

Quote

Anyway, all that is, again, way off topic. Has nothing to do with the questionable conclusion of this article or the accuracy of the use of "server shipments" statistics to measure usage in the enterprise.

Actually, if you note my first response to this thread:

WinTard wrote:
[4.|m-204866] Apr 5, 2009 10:18 PM [4.|m-204677] in response to: [PCWorld|m-204677] Re: Linux Servers Take Bigger Hit

There seems to be a false and futile sense of competition amongst numbers. How do you measure something? By its height, weight, circumference, volume, market share, popularity, or what?

{Snipped}

And I am still standing by that principle. I do not care about trends. Trends are for followers. Leaders lead, and make their own path.

In addition, I have been a user and supporter of Linux since day one! My first distro was Soft Landing Systems Linux. Thus my statements above. And you call me a Microsoft shill? Well you're wrong. I am agnostic, open-minded first. Experienced second. And certainly not a bigot fan of this or that. That is lame and so limiting!

In these posts, I am merely replying to the dynamic topic of discussion that ensues... It isn't off topic, if replying to a topic raised through the discussion by someone else. Just like in any Court of Law. I am just being precise. Now that doesn't mean the topic raised, is not itself out of topic to the parent discussion. But then what would be the point of an online discussions forums?

In regards to Linux being free, please explain the Red Hat Linux pricing?
Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 56,900,000 for red hat. (0.15 seconds)

redhat.com | The World's Open Source Leader
Red Hat is the world's leading open source technology solutions provider with offerings including Red Hat Enterprise Linux, open source applications, ...

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redhat.com | Enterprise Linux-Open Source Application for Servers ...
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Red Hat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Red Hat, Inc. (NYSE: RHT) is a company in the free and open source software sector, and a major Linux distribution vendor. Founded in 1995, Red Hat has its ...
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>Red Hat Linux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>Red Hat Linux 1.0 was released on November 3, 1994. It was originally called "Red Hat Commercial Linux" [2] It is the first Linux distribution to use the ...
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RedHatLinux - 61k - Cached - Similar pages

>

I stand corrected on the 30 days evaluation of Red Hat, so only Apple remains...

But their term 'socket' is misleading in the Unix world. It corresponds to 'core'. So with a quad-core Intel, you need to purchase the more expensive 4 socket version. At least with Red Hat 4 ES versus Red Hat 4 AS. And all our servers are at the moment dual socket quad core Dell blades with 16GB or 32GB RAM, which forces us to buy the top-of-the-line Red Hat Enterprise Linux Advanced Platform, at $1499 per year, year after year for every single installation. That is only for a Standard Subscription. If one wants the Premium subscription to the Advanced Platform, it is a mere $2499 per year, year after year for every single installation. Microsoft charges you less, only once. With free lifetime support. And both Windows 7 and Windows 2008 Server support an unlimited number of cores and sockets ^1^.

h2. Sorry to blow your Linux free of costs bubble,
but commercial enterprises DO NOT use the free Linux for mission critical purposes. They use something solid, and supported like Red Hat Linux. Or do it like we do, and have enough expertise to run Debian, thanks to our own in-house experts. But we're small size (less than 200 people software development firm). Whereas the big organizations, even if they have the skills in house, prefer to leave Linux support to the pros.

Now you appear to have a chip on the shoulders. A large one at that. And that makes you less than congenial. With your prejudice, you actually appear as an ignorant Linux shill with blinders on. Thus lack any type of credibility in this PCWorld community. Trust must be earned. Start by posting constructive and informative posts, more than five, then let's talk again.

-----
^1^ Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 2,060,000 for windows numa. (0.14 seconds)

NUMA Support (Windows)
The traditional model for multiprocessor support is symmetric multiprocessor (SMP). In this model, each processor has equal access to memory and I/O. As ...
msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363804(VS.85).aspx - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

Application Software Considerations for NUMA-Based Systems
5 Mar 2003 ... Describe the NUMA features supported in the Windows Server 2003 ..... Information on the Windows Server 2003 NUMA application APIs and ...
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NUMA in Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7 - News - Extended64 ...
Phil just posted a series of videos/screencasts on Channel9 explaining the concepts of NUMA ( Wikipedia ) support in the upcoming Windows releases.
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Search MSDN http://social.msdn.m...indows%207&ac=8

Multi-Core Support in Windows 7: Developer Resources - Home

... 2008 R2 and Windows 7 The 64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 support more than 64 Logical Processors (LP) on a single computer using Non-Uniform Memory Access ...
http://code.msdn.mic...m/Win7multicore

Excerpt from http://code.msdn.mic...m/Win7multicore

New NUMA Support with Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7
The 64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 support more than 64 Logical Processors (LP) on a single computer using Non-Uniform Memory Access (NUMA) hardware architectures. New commodity systems are now appearing that leverage NUMA chipset architectures. Many high-end server-class solutions may need to be architected with NUMA awareness in order to achieve linear performance scaling on such systems. Parallel Computing and High Performance Computing solution developers may also find NUMA awareness essential for performance scalability. This is a multi-part series illustrating concepts documented in detail at http://code.msdn.mic...t.com/64plusLP.

~~~~~~~~~~
Don't think you're on the right road just because it?s a well-beaten path.
~ Source Unknown

I must continue to follow the path I take now. If I do nothing, if I study nothing, if I cease searching, then, woe is me, I am lost. That is how I look at it - keep going, keep going come what may.
~ Vincent van Gogh

A successful life is one that is lived through understanding and pursuing one's own path, not chasing after the dreams of others.
~ Chin-Ning Chu

Every path has its puddle.
{English Proverb}

If you want to succeed you should strike out on new paths, rather than travel the worn paths of accepted success.
~ John D. Rockefeller, 1839-1937, American Industrialist and Philanthropist

We can make progress once we find the right path.
~ Rick Levine

There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but the view is always the same.
{Chinese Proverb}

You cannot travel the path until you have become the path itself.
~ Buddha

PS: Do you think these quotes are Off Topic? ;)

[WinTard]

Since now I notice the offending post and entire thread has disappeared from public view, for the greater good of all concerned, please feel free to simply also remove my post #27 above in this thread. Since it also becomes irrelevant. But for the record: The post above was done before removal of rgreen4's initial thread which shall remain nameless, since it was deemed too controversial...However, should it reappear, then please leave this post #27 as well. BTW: I am entirely backed up, and have all posts in text form, named appropriately, should it become necessary in the future.

Peace!

[ShineOn]

1) You are awfully rude. I don't really care how many posts you have made. All I care about is the topic of discussion which is veering way off course thanks to you. The number of posts one has made in a general forum is obviously not indicative of the quality or value-add of the poster.


2) This is not a court of law, it's a discussion of a "news" article. Maybe PC World Community likes to have their article discussions veer way off topic, I don't know. That's not the way all communities do it - in fact, they tend to want people to stick to a particular topic's, er, topic - which is why it's called a topic for discussion rather than "let's start our stream-of-consciousness chatroom blather here and see where it takes us."



3) I don't mean to call you a shill. I mean to say your post is shilling for Microsoft when you praise them for their free trials in order to knock Mac OS.



4) To explain the RedHat pricing you mention - your commentary about the "cost" of Linux is, by your own admission (you internally support Debian,) not always the case; and further, is a misrepresentation of the facts. Linux is free. What people are paying for with a commercial distro is not license to use Linux - it's for support services. True, most companies that use Linux in mission-critical applications will tend to use a commercial distro's "enterprise" version, and pay the support subscription fees, but for non-mission-critical applications those same companies will use free-as-in-beer community-supported distros like Ubuntu, Fedora or OpenSuSE. That's what I do. Windows is not free to install and is not free to access (it requires client access licensing in addition to server licensing.) You also have to pay Microsoft for support. Yes, you do. Read on.



5) As to the ridiculous pricing for RedHat subscription support, that's why I get SLES. SLES11 per-server annual support for up to 32 cpu sockets, standard support, is $799 list. Standard support includes 12x5 unlimited phone and electronic support with 4-hour response, and any product / version updates that occur during the subscription period. You also mention using RedHat 4 AS/ES. If you're still on RHEL 4, you're a bit behind the times - their current Enterprise offering is RHEL5. That said, again, what you're paying for is not the distro, it's the professional support services.

5a) Novell does not count each core as a CPU socket. They count each socket as a socket. A quad-core processor does not consume four CPU sockets, it consumes one.

5b) Novell also allows unlimited virtualized instances on a single physical server for one support subscription fee. Microsoft only supports four instances of Windows Server Enterprise per physical server without requiring additional licenses.



6) Microsoft licensing does not include unlimited free lifetime support. It includes limited support for the lifecycle of the product, including security and bugfix patches and hotfixes and forum-based support. It does not include product version updates. For that, you have to buy a whole new set of licensing - server and client access. Any assisted support or priority support call is either paid for on a per-incident basis or you have to subscribe to their premium support, at a fee they don't publicize.



So please, ms WinTard eleven-hundred-plus-and-counting-posts, get off your high horse, and don't insult new members of the PC World community because of their low number of posts in that one community. It's unbecoming, and does not earn you any respect.
Message was edited by: ShineOn
I added 5a and 5b to counter the claim that Unix counts each core as a socket, and that you have to pay annual Linux subscription fees for each server instance you install.

[WinTard]

I believe we can make peace, now that you've insulted me first by calling me a Microsoft shill, and I was 'rude' to you.

And welcome to PCWorld! Just do not go around implying Microsoft shill posts when you don't agree with what you see. That rudeness of yours will only attract you troubles...

Peace!

~~~~~~~~~~
Perception becomes reality.

[ShineOn]

Peace is good. :)



Again, I didn't call you a shill. I said "your Microsoft shill post" in reference to the post, not to you. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Sometimes I don't say things in an inambiguous way and am taken the wrong way.

And yes, you were rude to me, belittling my contribution because of the number of posts I've made in this particular forum. And yes, I am thoroughly disgusted with Microsoft as a corporate entity and the tactics they use, although I do use their products at work, and yes I am a Linux and FOSS proponent, but am far from being a "blinders on" Linux "shill." I, as you, believe in heterogeneous environments. SILO's are not a good thing, except for the SILO-provider.

I gotta say, though, it's hard not to notice that you do tend to post a lot of what could be considered advertising for Microsoft and their various products. Just sayin'. Remember, perception becomes reality... ;)



Take care...

[rasmasyean]

I don't understand why LinTards always think that large corporations would hire people to post some comments on blogs to promote their products. I can see perhaps startups doing this as a cheap form of "word of mouth advertisement". But if I were to hire someone with the budgets a manager at MS has, the only blogging they will be doing is making announcements about our product...not reading other peoples / magazines blogs and arguing with them during work.
And ShineOn, removed if you're going to discuss things on the internet, just to warn you, not everone is going to be nice to you...especially Linux and Mac users. The "odd ones out" often have a chip on thier shoulders and it comes out. So be prepared for other "assaults on your ego", but just don't take it that way! LOL
Edited by MPHEnterprises - No Personal Attacks

[mphenterprises]

rasmasyean said:

>

Quote

Minorities (those using non-Windows Operating Systems) often have a chip on thier shoulders and it comes out.

>
>




Hi rasmayean. I added the bold information to your post. The sentence could be misconstrued as offensive without clarification. I think there has been enough misunderstanding within this thread. If you would like to remove my addition and edit your post, please feel free to do so. Thanks.

[ShineOn]

Of course, my email had the unedited version of your post. Don't know why it changed from "I don't understand why LinTards always... " to "... WinTard ..." I assume it was done by the mod, and I can only guess you think I think WinTard is being paid by M$ to post ads for their products, and that I'm a "LinTard." That's not what I said, and I've been called worse. There's only one sort of troll that calls people LinTards... ;) ... so I take it as a compliment.
I guess folks like you like to read stuff like that into other peoples' posts, though. Too bad the personal attack was removed by the mod. It just affirms that my opinion of you is not too low.

The whole point of the mini-discussion with WinTard was that she was taking this thread off-topic. I'll say the same to you - what does any of that have to do with the topic? Why are you wasting my time with this?



MPHEnterprises -sorry if this steps close to "the line"

[WinTard]

Thank you for clearing up the little misunderstanding, I too apologize for overstepping my bounds, in a tit-for-tat response... I meant nothing by low post count, other than I've seen many-a-times people with less than 10 post count, start bashing this or that, into threads, completely off-topic, only to add insult to injury. That was obviously not your case.

I sincerely welcome you to this wonderful PCWorld Community, and believe that you and I will have many more intelligent and productive discussions.

Please everyone, remember it all starts with mutual respect for everyone! There is no better or ultimate out there. Only mere choices fitting the indivitual situation at the time. I do not think Apple, Novell, Red Hat or Microsoft are evil by nature. Just different business models. Variety is good!

Take care my friend. :)

PS: Oh and thank you rasmasyean, my good friend: I'd like to state that my job requires me to stay up-to-date with the flood of information out there concerning technology. And am not paid by hourly basis, but on an annual salary + performance bonus. Frankly, I put in a lot more than the required typical 8 hours per day, and work productively day and night, and on weekends. Since we've got clients all over the world, including India, I am required to work in different time-zones as well. Thus the common during-work 9~5 period doesn't apply here. And I chose the WinTard nickname, because generally, nobody wants it. LOL! And I have been blessed many-a-times with that insult... For the record, Win stands for Win-Win, not Windows... Incidentally, the net effect is nobody calls me a WinTard anymore. And I also consider myself as a UniTard, LinTard, QnxTard, GeekTard, NerdTard and perhaps one day, a MacTard or any other Tards.. Better laugh at yourself, before anybody else! ;)

[rasmasyean]

LinTard, MacTard, WinTard, and soon prolly AnTard...'PreTard'??? ...are all part of the lingo during the OS Wars. You will find that too, in discussions on the internet. It has nothing to do with trolling.
And I've come across many rude people who are "right" and many sweet people who are "absolutely wrong". To me, it makes no difference as I'm not going to meet them. If you let your "feelings" cloud your judgments, that's when start making dumb conclusions and even believe in them!

[ShineOn]

I guess you think I'm a noob. Whatever.



Where I come from, people that call other people xxx-tards and other names in an otherwise technical forum are attempting to start an argument. They are not terms of endearment.

Further, where I come from, those people are called Trolls. It's kind-of the definition of troll - people "trolling" for an argument, trying to start a flame war or otherwise get a rise out of other people.



I don't know if you are or not. But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

[rasmasyean]

Incidentally, that's another tactic used. If you don't agree with them and / or prove them wrong, you are a "Troll" as well as a "Shill" sometimes. LOL