[waldojim]

So you are saying you would rather have Canonical advertise Ubuntu like a mad man, and then charge $200 a copy just for market share?
I will take free thank you very much.

[JimH443]

waldojim said:

So you are saying you would rather have Canonical advertise Ubuntu like a mad man, and then charge $200 a copy just for market share?
I will take free thank you very much.

And that is your choice. But you will remain in the minority by a wide margin until then.

[waldojim]

you seem to think I care about being a minority.

If the software continues to be maintained BY the user, FOR the user. Then fine by me. I do not want another closed source, garbage heap that is MS and Apple (call OS-X what you want, but the part that makes it OS-X and NOT BSD is closed source)

I do not want some board member deciding how my os should look. I do not want that same board deciding what software I get to use out of the box.

I CHOOSE freedom. I choose to let the community build a product. I choose to help them when I can. I choose to support your freedom to choose. And if that means that we don't show up on ONE misguided metric. Fine.

I still think we need a new metric.

[JimH443]

It's not that I think you care about being a minority - but that is the fact of the matter. When Vista wasn't well received, it created an opportunity for Linux to gain market share. This opportunity was missed. So, the answer to the question posed in the title of the article is: Yes.

[WinTard]

JimH443 said:

Which explains why it missed the opportunity? Imagine where Microsoft would be today if it didn't care about market share.

>

Quote

Everything else you've said about Linux is true, but until it receives the necessary promotion it will remain an "also-ran" of the Operating System world. This is not to say it's not the best OS available at any price. All I'm saying is that the opportunity to become the most used home operating system was missed. The public seems to be embracing Win7, so it doesn't appear as if this opportunity is going to present itself again anytime soon.

I'll agree with you: I love Windows 7. And most Microsoft products as a matter of fact. The only thing I'd like to see from Microsoft is open-source EVERYTHING. (Xbox 360 also pretty please...)

Other than that, Microsoft is GREAT!

Now Linux is GREAT precisely because it is purely driven "art for art sake" no corruption by greed, money etc... No ulterior motives. Other than just FUN and sharing. And NOTHING else comes close in those terms. For Linux, this market share angle is not even something to be contemplated. And that is noble, pure, and right.

And I wouldn't want to live in a world without open-source... Yet joined these forums and specifically chose my WinTard name to help debunk FUD and come to the rescue of the 'underdog' Microsoft being wrongly bashed by a bunch of ignorant zealots with an extreme chip on their shoulders. Poor souls. How can they have a happy life, with so much pent-up frustrations and anger? Towards the WINning results? So I am deeply committed to Windows and Linux and all that is good for that matter.

:)

~~~~~~~~~~
The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat.
~ Lily Tomlin

All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind.
~ Aristotle

Not you JimH443! We're a breed apart. But this Utopian ideal still sounds right to me at least... ;)

[JimH443]

WinTard said:

Now Linux is GREAT precisely because it is purely driven "art for art sake" no corruption by greed, money etc... No ulterior motives. Other than just FUN and sharing. And NOTHING else comes close in those terms. For Linux, this market share angle is not even something to be contemplated. And that is noble, pure, and right.

:)

It's an unfortunate fact that market share drives the market. It's all well and good that software such as Ubuntu exists (I'm even considering switching from XP to Ubuntu myself) - but how long will "art for art's sake" exist? Things look rosy now, but how long will it be before people tire of developing an "also-ran" just for the fun of it? I suspect we'll never see a "Zealous Zebra."

[waldojim]

I agree with you to a point. Windows 7 is great, and I am very much enjoying it.


However, the rest of Microsoft.... I have issues with that. Mostly I don't like how greedy they are. You need Windows Ultimate - $320. Now you need Office - $500. Don't forget to add Visio $560, and Publisher $170, and One care (because AV and a 2way firewall are too much to include with the OS) $50.


They just seem like a company that has everything it needs and wants, but doesn't know when to quit ripping off the customer. That said, I do realize that most of that is unnecessary. I would not need MS office, or Viso, or Publisher. I also trust another companies AV/Firewall software a bit more than MS. So like I said, it is a personal feeling - they kinda rub the wrong way if you will.

This is part of the reason I like Linux. All of that is there, out of the box, for free. No I do not run a publishing studio, so that is not an issue if I don't have xx feature, and the only thing OpenOffice gets used for is my resume... and lately I have been using Abiword instead of OOo even. I think OOo has gotten to a point where they are trying so hard to mimic MS Office that they are killing their own project. OOo is slow, painfully slow, and demanding. I want a simple word processor that does a simple task. I don't need it to print me a book with pictures, and word art that was also published to my website, blogspace, etc.

[WinTard]

I don't know. Ever since Linus Torvalds announced he would do "nothing big" but would release an open-source OS based on MINIX, never even in my wildest dreams, did I think Linux would grow to what it is today! On its own! Now with twenty more years of wisdom below the belt, I've changed my views, and now firmly believe this is only the tip of the iceberg... Linux isn't a flash in the pan, or the new kid on the block. It isn't a fad. It is for real!

And why stats and numbers do not matter, is they are not even part of the Linux equation! Now that's balls... (on the part of the Linux community that is.) The Linux project has taken roots, without money! Wow! Only beliefs, passion, efforts, from volunteer believers. That is revolutionary in the high-tech and business world. Yet facts cannot be ignored. Plus the spirit of cooperation and sharing is unrivalled anywhere in the world. Linux is right!

~~~~~~~~
To see things in the seed, that is genius.
~ Lao Tzu

[WinTard]

I understand where you come from my friend waldojim! :)

But why not be happier, and let go of the negative? Look for the positive, and contribute to it?

Why not look at what Microsoft did for the entire humanity? They pulled off, what nobody prior to them could. And that is to give us a standardized platform upon which we all can build. The x86 PC standard. The BIOS. The write once, run anywhere concept. Without Microsoft, there would be NO LINUX... Really! We still would be in a land of confusion, with a zillion of people pulling each in their own directions, insteat of all pulling together.

Microsoft and Linux are not enemies. And the sad fact is people with chips on their shoulders, blame Microsoft, when in fact their own very existence would not be possible without Microsoft in the first place.

Thanks to Microsoft and Bill Gate's vision, of one computer per household, an entire thriving ecosystem of high-technology now exists.

That is something oftentimes overlooked, sadly alas.

Just be happy! Use everything that makes your life better and easier.

Use openoffice.org for free!

Use Avast, malwarebytes, and ccleaner for free!

Use most of Linux under Windows with cygwin for free!

ssl, ssh, sftp from putty under Windows for free!

Xwindows under cygwin under Windows for free!

Learn from opensource firefox, and filezilla under Windows for free!

Run Linux under Windows with Hyper-V for free!

And most importantly, feel free to use the force --> read the source! For free!

Oh and have fun with Windows 7 Ultimate x64 until June 2010 for free!

Freedom! That is what Microsoft gave us! I repeat: GAVE us.

Where is the negative?

~~~~~~~~~
No tool is more beneficial than intelligence. No enemy is more harmful than ignorance.
~ Abu Abdullah Muhammad al-Harithi al-Baghdadi al-Mufid

The fire you kindle for your enemy often burns yourself more than him.
{Chinese Proverb}

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
~ St. Francis of Assisi

It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance.
~ Thomas Huxley, 1825-1895, English Biologist

If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain.
~ Maya Angelou

It's not what you look at that matters; it's what you see.
~ Henry David Thoreau, 1817-1862, American Author/Critic/Naturalist

We may need to solve problems not by removing the cause but by designing the way forward even if the cause remains in place.
~ Edward de Bono

The man who has no problems is out of the game.
~ Elbert Hubbard

Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.
~ Albert Einstein (German born American Physicist who developed the special and general theories of relativity. Nobel Prize for Physics in 1921. 1879-1955)

Obstacles are things you see when you take your eyes off the goal.
~ Alan Kulwicki (1954-1993)

What is the goal? (For me it's FUN)

-----
Speaking of fun:
>
>

[waldojim]

you know I one actually ran X under windows - that was a very strange experience. I would like to see the support get a little better.

I point out the negative in MS because I still don't like the policies. The new Win 7 is great, and IF they would be kind to the users of Vista, and give us a low cost upgrade, I for one would be ecstatic. But that does not fall in line with how they operate. Apple has an epensive product out the door, PC's pay for it in the apps.

It just seems to me that MS has a product for every use, and that product is not cheap.

That said, I will forever be grateful for the x86 hardware. This hardware has brought everyone to the table together to show off what they can do. I have never really considered how much Disk IO was affected by the OS, or other system level functions. And thus I am intrigued to see what else is fit to gain from 7. I also am happy to see a comprehensive set of drivers, as I mentioned elsewere.

More and more we see MS take cues from the likes of Apple, and Linux to give us what they think we want. And for the most part they do well. I would like to see more 3d effects available, and make is customisable. I would also like to see a 'living' background. They have some wonderful screen shots, now all they need to do is add motion! While I know videos can be used on Ultimate, I would normally not buy that one. Cmon guys - Cool desktop effects for all!

[WinTard]

I use XLiveCD (free) works like a charm! I simply mount the .iso image under daemon-tools lite 4.30.3 (free). It is up in 3 seconds. What could be simpler? :D

You don't have to use Microsoft Products. Or simply attend their free technical seminars all over the world, and you'll receive free software, books, and other goodies for attending... Use their promotions. They can afford it! The point being, if one warms up to, and adopts Microsoft in the business, they treat you the end-user ROYALLY. They basically give everything away for free! Ok let's say it is a time limited whatever. So? Just re-install in 90 days... I'm sure they don't mind. They want people to get used to and use their products... Of course, in business, since it is for profit, they want the businesses to pay. Hey fair is fair!

Always look for the win-win angle.

~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by: Create Web Forms on June 6, 2008 01:06 AM
On a Linux Cruise, I asked Torvalds about his "Software is like Sex, it's better when it's free" quote, and he told me that the first time he said it, a voice from the back of the room piped up to say "How do you know?" Heh.