[coastie65]

Whatever the case, It would be in their best interests to keep the same programming format. If people want to step up, then so be it and they can bring their games with them.

[ddaley]

>>>Game consoles are cheap toys. And do not match the display abilities of PCs.





What the??? Do not match the display abilities of PCs? The current consoles (with the exception of the Wii) can run in 1080p... .which is 1920x1080. Most modern monitors (below 23") cannot display in that resolution. I have not seen many monitors that can go above 1920x1080.





What kind of sound system do you have connected to your computer? I don't happen to have a home theater system attached to my computer, but I do have one connected to my console.





Another advantage of console gaming is that I don't have to sit 2 feet from the screen. When I play on a big screen TV using a wireless controller, I can sit back and enjoy the video and audio.

[WinTard]

Everything you do with a console I also do with both the consoles and the PC. Including wireless. My principal monitor is a 1920x1080p @ 120Hz non-interlaced Samsung, 25000:1 contrast ratio 40" HDTV. My secondary monitor is a 24" 1920x1200 LCD. That's on the PC side of things...

Try to get about 1.2 ~ 2 Billion transistors in two GPU's each costing more than the entire game console, requiring 40 amperes of current to do 3D acceleration, shading, etc... Stuff completely inaccessible to gaming consoles. The power-supply for those console couldn't handle it!

Even my original Xbox did 1920x1080. So? At what color depth? At what frame rates, at what anti-aliasing mode?

Image quality is more than 2d coordinates 1920 horizontal x 1080 vertical pixels...

And all this technology is there only to improve image quality. Not the Artificial Intelligence for gameplay. That uses the 4 core overclocked CPU. All online. All multi-user. All real-time.

Don't forget I got all the consoles too. (except for the Wii, who cares?).

Basically you get what you pay for.

As for sound: http://www.logitech....ex.cfm/speakersaudio/homepc_speakers/devices/224&cl=US,EN
>
Logitech Z-5500 505 W RMS THX certified digital audio via optical out from the PC

Mind you, I do like consoles too. Simply that I think the future of gaming resides in high-power gaming stations using PC's as the base. :)

[ddaley]

Um, yeah... so I want to go spend $4k on a computer so that the graphics can be as good as that of a $400 console and use cruddy little speakers with it. You are right wintard. I don't know why I bought a console at all.

[WinTard]

Why either or? Why not use them all? At some point in the future? When your finances can easily afford it?

Why compare? There are no comparisons possible IMHO.

[waldojim]

Apple Cinema display:
30in LCD Display / 2560 x 1600 Max Resolution / Digital Visual Interface (DVI)
Lets see a console do that!

My PC can. And it can give me a better looking image the whole time. Even on a 1080p TV the PC has more power, and can display more image.

My PC is connected to a Denon 5.1 receiver with Yamaha ns-55 mains, Polk RTi Center, and rears. The total effect is friggin sweet! Try Crysis with 24bit audio.

And that brings me to final point, Consoles survive on PC gaming. The development happens here FIRST, and then gets ported to those little boxes. So they are always at least one step behind.

Now the BIG downside to PC gaming is the age old question "can my computer play xxx game?"
I think MS is working toward a very good solution, it just needs refined a little.
That wonderful windows experience index. When you buy a game, it needs to have a part of the box that says something like 'easy indicator, Vista experience of 3.2 or higher required' to guarantee it will work. and a "recommended index of 5.0" to index optimal settings requirements... Like I said, MS laid a good foundation for this, game publishers need to use it.

[ddaley]

The thing is... for $400 I can have a console with great video, excellent sound and great compatibility. I don't demand the absolute best video. At some point (1080p), the video is more than adequate (and better than most PCs can do).



Doesn't that monitor require dual video cards to drive it? As much as I love Apple, I am not gonna shell out $1800 for a monitor and $4k for a Mac Pro to play games.



But, nice try.

[waldojim]

Not dual video cards, dual link. Most gamers cards have 2 dvi outputs, and that is needed to support the bandwidth for high resolution displays.

And my rig only costs me $1500, just about 2x a PS3 at launch, and my PC does MORE.

[ddaley]

Of course a PC does more than a console. I think they are adding too many features to the consoles as it is. I don't want my console to be my media hub. I don't even care if my console can play movies. I just want the thing to play games.



And, who is dumb enough to buy a PS3... let alone at launch. I waited until MS lowered the price on the 360 before I bought one.



If your rig cost you $1500, then you are not including the cost of your Apple Cinema Display :p

[ddaley]

I have two macbooks, an imac, a power mac (which is dead), an HP laptop, an Asus laptop, and a shuttle mini-pc. It isn't like I don't own a PC or understand the value of a PC. But, I don't play games on any of them and haven't in quite some time.

[coastie65]

OK folks, I game on the PC, PS2, & PS3 and am equally happy with all of them. If I had an Xbox 360 that didn't RROD, I'd be happy with that too. As long as i can play the games I want to play, I am really don't care about the platform all that much. That having been said, depending on the game, I do prefer one platform over the other. I prefer playing Tiger Woods PGA Tour on the PC as I can shoot higher scores than I can on either the PS2 or PS3. I prefer playing Tomb Raider on the console as I prefer the Controller over the mouse for that game due to the control factor. There is not much difference with Oblivion and it is jut as enjoyable on whichever platform you choose ( it is easier to cheat on the PC ). As for even newer consoles, there is no need for them in my opinion, just support what is out there now. Maybe there is some room for improvement with Wii, and maybe Xbox may be a little behind the curve compared to the PS3 ( it does have a bigger library of games though), but in my opinion all are good platforms. This eMachines can handle whatever is out there at the moment. coastie

[coastie65]

ddaley said:

And, who is dumb enough to buy a PS3... let alone at launch.

I was dumb enough to buy a PS3 ( Last September ) and have really enjoyed it. :) No RROD worries, although there is a lack of games that I like to play for it. In That case, I go to the PS2 or the PC. I don't use the PC that much as I like to keep it open to keep an eye on things around here. ]:)

[ddaley]

Some good points coastie. There are certain types of games that I would be unlikely to play on a console, such as RTS. I don't think the PC is dead for games, but I don't see this being the last generation of consoles either (the original topic). I am in no hurry for the next gen. The current gen of consoles are good enough... for now.

[waldojim]

to be fair, I was just pointing out that the display existed, not that I was dumb enough to buy one ;)

However, I game on a 21" Viewsonic CRT just because it hits extreme resolutions (2048x1536) and I got it kinda cheap (bout $100)

So, no widescreen on it, but more than enough detail. And that does put my rig up to $1600 if you include it.

As to launch prices vs later on I got this machine failry close to launch, so that price is a bit exaggerated.I can say that right now the same thing is down to about $1200 or so (only because some parts don't get cheaper - such as the power supply and case)

and while you may not want the console to DO more, remember that is where people find value, what can it do? how much is it? will it hold up?

[coastie65]

I think the one factor in trying to move to a new generation console is with the game developers, which will ultimately hurt the consumer. This is a major problem with the PS3 now. It takes longer to develope a game for the PS3 and it is more expensive. That is why you see once exclusive Sony titles such as Final Fantasy going cross platform. To continue to develope newer consoles at this time, in my opinion, would be very detrimental to the overall market.

[BGG001]

If you were to build my rig right about now, it'd be about $1400 including monitor, maybe less.

Intel C2Q Q6600 @ ~3.2GHz
4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM (intended to push it to 1000MHz but never bothered)
1.5TB Seagate
4850 Raedon 512MB (going to xfire with a 4890/4870 when prices lower some)
P45-A Foxconn Mobo
Acer P243W 24"

This rig plays Mass Effect and Oblivion flawlessly, especially in comparison to the Xbox, I get 1920x1200 reso, a couple more pixels (woohoo I suppose). Only regrets about this purchase is the motherboard, very OC friendly but there's a Biostar out there that can get the Q6600 stable at 4GHz if I'm not mistaken, and the monitor, for it has light bleed on black but I can ignore that because it was only $200 and the picture is stunning otherwise. Still running stock coolers on GPU and CPU; GPU came with lifetime warranty, CPU doesn't get far over 55C in it's OC'd state anyways.

My xbox, costed me $400. Sure, I've had RRODs and such but it's all been replaced for free, every time. Once time I was two weeks out of warranty and they accepted it anyways. I play my xbox on this monitor along with a 5.1 surround sound (also hooked to my computer). I tend to play a lot more on my xbox than my computer but to me, that's just the convenience factor with the controller (yes, most PC games support and embrace the 360 controller now but I don't want to go out and buy a wired if I don't need to). My computer will be able to play new games for AT LEAST the next year if not longer without an upgrade. All in all, I like both, therefore I use both. Although, xbox needs an upgrade...my recommendation: new processor, slightly more amped up, keep the same tri-core architecture, put an intake fan where the memory unit ports are, move the memory unit ports right next to the HDD bay, bam, better airflow (if you've ever seen the inside of one, you'd understand why the GPU suffocates).

To the comment about using your xbox as a media center, I like the idea a lot; I'd probably like it more if I had a home server set up and it somewhere else in my house, but the idea of using your xbox to play videos, TV, music, and stuff from your xbox through your network is an extremely smart idea and should be embraced, not shunned.

[coastie65]

I play my consoles PS2 ( through a component cable hook up) & PS3 ( Through an HDMI hook up ) on a 42" Toshiba 1080p HDTV. Haven't run the PC through that thing yet.

[waldojim]

"If you were to build my rig right about now, it'd be about $1400 including monitor, maybe less.

Intel C2Q Q6600 @ ~3.2GHz
4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM (intended to push it to 1000MHz but never bothered)
1.5TB Seagate
4850 Raedon 512MB (going to xfire with a 4890/4870 when prices lower some)
P45-A Foxconn Mobo
Acer P243W 24"

"
Fairly close to my own rig!
Intel C2Q 9450 @3.66ghz
4GB DDR2 Corsair XMS2 @950Mhz ( I think that is right, eh give or take 10Mhz)
3 hard drives, 2 160 boot drives 1 500Gb drives (dual boot, and a storage)
2x EVGA Nvidia 8800GT 512MB SLI ( I love these cards)
EVGA Nvidia 750i FTW mobo (wish I had more sata ports, but still a SOLID mobo)
Creative Audigy 2 (had an X-fi but Linux didn't like it - DAMN YOU CREATIVE!)
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 ( I always mention a PSU because a crap one CAN kill a system... and I just happen to like this one)
Antec 1200 case...

and aside from Crysis (name me a rig that can) I can push every game I own to the max res, max quality, and never miss a beat! 2048x1536 goodness ;)

[TheEyeofTheBeholder]

Would someone please tell me why if they can make a up-converted DVD player which people say looks just as good as Blu-ray, why the Wii can not bemade with the same technology and have a up-converted Wii player?

[WinTard]

Up converted will never be as good as the real-thing... Smoothing out jaggies through interpolation dynamically, isn't the same as starting out with the actual native resolution. Regulard DVD up-converted or not, still is 480 resolution, whereas blu-ray is 1080. A big difference.

As a matter of fact, I would avoid any kind of transcoding, precisely due to the artifacts (distortions) they introduce.

You can't add something that wasn't there in the first place. As for the Wii, they should simply support Full HD.