[dragon69]

my point is that since they failed ( less then 25% adoption rate of windows users) with vista they should offer the free upgrade to win 7 rc to all vista users who wish to do so that is if they (micro$oft ) wants a good user base for win 7 rc ( what vista should of been )


win xp still has over three times the amount of users that vista has and vista has been out for more then 2 years



and if they don't regain users windows will continue to loose customers to other operating systems

[dragon69]

all the "windows in usb " are hacked and not provided from micro$oft

[WinTard]

Good point, I understand your perspective. Me however, I do not care about market share, or what most do. Only what I do matters in the end, to me that is... I see no safety or vindication in numbers. I've been using every single version of Windows that exist and attempted to seek what was good in it, thus found it. I suspect if I were looking for the trouble or what's bad in it, I would also have found it.

I've been using Vista zero problems since I moved up to x64 version, and into a respectable machine,(4GB at the time). Now 8GB is nothing nowadays. Neither is $76 for Vista, or $200 for Windows 7...

One hour of my time wasted, and this $200 becomes a non-issue?

Yeah, everything is relative... Just to be happier in life, or at least at peace, I try not to sweat the small stuff... No offenses to anybody, $200 is small stuff for me, when considering my peace of mind, which is priceless to me! :D

~~~~~~~~~~~
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
~ Abraham Lincoln

[WinTard]

What's wrong with hacking, if the copy of Windows you have is legally obtained, and paid for?

So Microsoft never intended for Windows to be loaded onto USB key. So what? They don't specifically disallow it either to my knowledge? In their EULA or anywhere else?

Hacking is good! If done ethically and not illegally. No copyright issues, since both you and I are ethical people, and anybody inferring otherwise, better put up or shut up! It is not only diffamation, but morally wrong to assume, presume, any kinds of illegality or illicit behavior in our society, without cause.

The main principle of our justice system is innocent until proven guilty.

I will entertain this only once, but anybody raising the outside the law BS by inferrence or otherwise, will have to answer to me. This isn't directed to you dragon69. Just that I am fed up of all the negative connotations about hacking and illegal behavior, raised by such topics.

To be perfectly clear: Once a legally obtained purchased copy of Windows is obtained, making it do what was never intended is fair game. Specifically making any os boot in a live-cd format, whether it be actually implemented on CD, DVD or memory stick media. PERIOD.

We are evolving, what about virtual images? To be run under virtualization? As I said, I will not entertain any BS about legalities or not because I know I am in the right, I purchase my licenses to Windows. PERIOD. How I implement them is my business. Nobody else's.

PS: Right now, everybody essentially has a free license to Windows 7 RC, a temporary evaluation copy, compliments of Microsoft...

~~~~~~~~~~
Education is the chief remedy for all those great evils which afflict the country. Education will not only cultivate and improve the intellect of the nation, but will also purify its character.
~ Keshub Chunder US Senator

They, who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Benjamin Franklin

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
~ Edmund Burke

[dragon69]

yes i guess you could use bart pe or win pe to make it a bootable usb but all those other that state " no activation or no serial key needed " are hacked illegally



and both those PE programs are not really putting a full operating system on a usb as you may have trouble running games and your regular programs on those ( but i could be wrong but i think on both of those you have to install any programs you want use into the PE making program first and then do the biuld and then install it onto a usb or burn to a cd but after trhat is done you may have trouble with any program you want to or need to install )



so i think they can not be counted as full operating systems on a usb



with the linux live cds ( some are usb bootable as is ) you can download and install programs and use the stated programs to their full extent



just my two cents on this subject and correct me if i am wrong



good luck and take care

[WinTard]

dragon69 said:

yes i guess you could use bart pe or win pe to make it a bootable usb but all those other that state " no activation or no serial key needed " are hacked illegally

I agree. However, installing windows, activating it, then backing it up statically via backup.exe, or ghost, or Acronis, once activated, is perfectly legal IMHO.

The important point is to purchase and pay for a legal license to Windows. Once that critical step is accomplished (the transaction consumed via the exchange of money to Microsoft, them licensing YOUR copy of Windows) however it is being used onto a SINGLE machine is allowable. If your HDD crash, and you re-install, that is perfectly acceptable too.

Quote

and both those PE programs are not really putting a full operating system on a usb as you may have trouble running games and your regular programs on those ( but i could be wrong but i think on both of those you have to install any programs you want use into the PE making program first and then do the biuld and then install it onto a usb or burn to a cd but after trhat is done you may have trouble with any program you want to or need to install )

Technically, there are no reasons why a device driver couldn't be inserted into the OS (It is legal to install third party device drivers?), thus becoming part of the installed OS, then backed up, or transferred onto any 'external' device. It is also perfectly acceptable to run from external devices IMHO.

One such device driver that comes to mind would be daemon-tools, that turns ISO images into real DVD/CD functional CDFS devices? Why not with whatever is required to make it work off USB Key? What's the difference? And would Microsoft care? I don't think so. They care for being paid for each and every license of Windows in use out there. Nothing about how it is actually installed?

I really liked the Borland License Agreement: Just like a book No nonsense. A book can be used by one person at a time, regardless of who. If one lends a book to a friend, only the friend can read it at one given moment? If an activated version of Windows resides on a bootable device, the license follows the bootable device? Only one system can be booted at a time? Thus staying within reasonable and fair use rights. Implying otherwise is obscene IMHO. (For Microsoft that is). Anybody treating their customers with presumed ill intent, like criminals, are just effectively biting the hand that feeds them... And won't last very long. Just look at the RIAA. They're finished. Maybe not today. But the writing is on the wall... And that is democracy and also free-enterprise. The majority of the public is always right.

Quote

so i think they can not be counted as full operating systems on a usb

>

Quote

with the linux live cds ( some are usb bootable as is ) you can download and install programs and use the stated programs to their full extent

just my two cents on this subject and correct me if i am wrong

>

Quote

good luck and take care

All good and valid points you raise, to which I do not know the answer either? But I believe in first things first. First let somebody figure out how to make the Windows live CD work... Licensing issues have nothing to do with the fact that a live cd has its legitimate uses... If it is useful with Linux, same applies to Windows...

And please dragon69. I consider you and am your friend. No beef. For real. I hope and wish it is reciprocal.

GLHF (Good Luck Have Fun) (A gamer's hello) :)

[TheBigOldDog]

If they had any common sense they would give every Vista owner a free upgrade to Win 7 Ultimate in order to stop the bleeding. The longer people are forced to use Vista the more they lose them to Apple and Ubuntu. They need to lock people back into windows and from what I've seen from using Win 7 since the first public beta, Win 7 can do that. The should give XP users a cheap upgrade path as well. $49 would be great, $99 would be acceptable but slow adoption.
Wake up Microsoft and do something smart for once under Ballmer.

[elaf70]

Have a Dell 410 XPS purchased new with a "Windows XP sticker" on front 7/21/07, it was supposed to have a "Vista Premium sticker" on front. oops! There's an Ultimate Vista 32-bit software installed on PC purchased new and from day one I have been waiting for an update too Fix a slow responding 410 XPS PC. Who will help me fix this PC: Dell, MICROSOFT??

[WinTard]

Well since you purchased from Dell, you must deal with the vendor Dell. You didn't pay a cent to Microsoft. You bought from Dell at retail. Dell in turns buys wholesale as an OEM from Microsoft. So clearly your issue is with Dell.

Dell has a 30-day money back satisfaction guarantee. Hmm, since 7/21/07, and you are waiting till 5/19/09 (about 22 months) to do something about it? Did you ever notify Dell back then? What was their answer at the time? Is the unit still under warranty? If you purchased extended warranty it still is.

Who knows, maybe Dell will entertain your request? But if they don't, and the window of opportunity is gone, due to expiration of a reasonable time-limit, the fault resides purely on your head. I'd say if there are any complaints, you should direct those to yourself, for carelessness and procrastination?

Imagine you discover an expired winning lottery ticket by one year, who are you going to complain to?

You might be a bit on the tardy side for this promotion, but for others acquiring a new system, be aware of this rumor about a free Windows 7 upgrade program:

http://windows7news....pgrade-program/
You might have read our article about the Windows 7 Tech Guarantee Program back in November which basically stated that Windows Vista users might receive a free Windows 7 upgrade depending on the time of their purchase. Some new information came to light that have not been confirmed yet by Microsoft.

Techarp, a technology website, has listed the requirements for receiving a free Windows 7 upgrade. They do mention that the program is optional meaning that not all OEMs might participate.

A new PC has to be purchased between July 1, 2009 and a date that has not been announced yet. A pre-installed version of either Windows Vista Home Premium, Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate has to be supplied with the PC that must have a valid Certificate of Authenticity (COA) attached.

The upgrade paths are straightforward:

1. Windows Vista? Home Premium -> Windows? 7 Home Premium
2. Windows Vista? Business -> Windows? 7 Professional
3. Windows Vista? Ultimate -> Windows? 7 Ultimate

Hey, what have you got to lose, why not call Microsoft also and explain your dilema?

As to speed up your XPS, why not download the free Windows 7 RC? It is available here: http://www.microsoft...7/download.aspx

This Windows 7 is faster than greased lightning. Many have reported it turned their sluggish machine under Vista to a speeding bullet! Right here on PCWorld forums.

This beta will cease to function on June 30th 2010, alas, but hey it's free for now! That gives you more than a full year to do something about your dilema,

Good luck!

PS: Please let us know what happens, I am curious as to the outcome of this sordid affair.

[dragon69]

Between micro$ost$ license and dell's license and given the date of purchase i think you got screwed and neither company will care for you



learn your lesson . . . don't buy either dell or micro$oft$ products againunless they will help retify it now ( micro$oft knows that vista was just a beta but they released it as a release candidate anyways and should be held accountable for it but with there lawyers they can stall it forever and you will not get a working computer out of it )



next time read the licensing agreement before a purchase and that might give you a little rights in future complaints ( i know you almost need to be a lawyer to read those but that is why both companies make their licensing agreements so long and complicated to read so it protects them and leaves you with very little protection)



bet that dell will run ubuntu just fine



i think that win 7 is what vista should have been 2 1/2 years ago i spent good money on it and ( maybe the last 3 or 4 months it might have been good) most of the last 14 months it has been a big disapointment as hardly any of micro$oft$ promises were true

[dragon69]

also i down loaded both the 32 bit and 64 bit versions of win 7 release candidate and have yet to try them out . . . . . . i will let most of the other people work out the kinks and then try it out in a couple of weeks with a seperate hard drive ( maybe seperate partition but i think i will buy a new hard drive maybe even a ssd )

[WinTard]

Ah, come on. The buyer has the right and responsibility to report any troubles within a reasonable period of time. In this case 30 days. Anything the user doesn't like, including full refund or complete exchange for the system was an available option to him, and all Dell clients. Under 'special' considerations, I would say perhaps even during the standard Dell warranty of 1 year. If extended warranty was purchased, then the unit is still under warranty? All these choices and considerations resides on the consumer, the purchaser. Thus the entire responsibility for claiming anything resides with the buyer, within a legally reasonable period of time.

What you are saying is BS IMHO.

Regardless, the end-user still can get Ubuntu anytime, for free. So the point is moot!

And you are off topic with your anti-Microsoft rant, dragon69. If you want to push Ubuntu, do it elsewhere please and start your own thread about broken promises never made by anybody and the superiority and merits of Ubuntu Linux over Windows. Thank you.

PS: Also I'd like a link to those broken promises made by Microsoft in writing, documented, other than FUD in your new thread discussing this very topic you are raising.

[WinTard]

I hope you have as much fun as I have with this Windows 7 RC beta. It just works... That is if you care about any of my feedback. :)

[dragon69]

ok strike my last comments



but if a companies fails to listen to the little consumers they should expect some sort of recourse

why keep giving the big companies money if they fail to listen to our little rants err i mean legitimate concerns . . . i still feel that vista should not have costed anything as it was buggy as a beta ( yeah my mistake for only waiting 1 year after vista was released and not two years if that was so then maybe my vista experience would have been a lot better with next to no crashes and we can not keep blaming some of that on manufactures not providing drivers as vista's slow adoption rate gave them little or no reason to push out new drivers for vista when most were still using win xp )

and yes all my computer parts and peripherals were new but not many 64 bit drivers were out from most companies at that time (17 months ago just before xmas) and many problems were with vista and not the parts and now they have mr fix it to solve some of those but then they had next to nothing for help ( at first they wanted 85 bucks to fix those then after they did release most of the fixes they said tech support will be provided for free



i just believe they released vista 1 or 2 years to early just to make a few extra bucks but that all backfired on them as it might have cost them quite a few bucks and a lot of ill will from disgruntled customers and about 30 to 40% of vista users did have it trouble free

and it will not cost much to try out ubuntu ( maybe the price of a cd or dvd if wubu will not work for a in windows install )



just my two cents

[dragon69]

win 7 is first time in a long time that micro$oft actually listening to there customers ( they must have forgotten the old saying " the customer is always right) but they only started listennning when there customers quit buying there c r a p and started ( yes in a small way but still our money is going else where and not to micro$oft ) buying other stuff and with this economy in the present state



i hope they get it right with win 7 ( the product sounds good but what about the pricing as most people don't have money to throw away on crap and might check it out better before purchasing ) and it lives up to all the hype



good luck and take care

[elaf70]

Have purchased a 4 yr XPS sprt, Dimension, 4 YR EXT. It does not include software support., my mistake. Now I have too pay for "TECH TEAM" $399.00 MORE.,Or $99 for trial. I do not know what a support TRIAL would fix?

[WinTard]

Oh great! 1) Your machine is still under warranty. Since warranty also includes some kind of software support as well IMHO. I believe Dell is a reasonable company, you probably won't get satisfaction at the first or second level support, because these people are powerless to 'break the rules' but if you can somehow manage to escalate beyond the 'supervisor' level, and actually talk to a Manager @ Dell, they may be able (have the authority) to do something about your situation, just as a goodwill gesture. And I do believe Dell and Microsoft cares, regardless of all the nay-sayers and bashers out there.

You have a legitimate complaint (oops request) IMHO:

1) You don't have a COA, since the one delivered with the original system is for XP.
2) You did receive a better OS than you ordered, since you got Vista Ultimate (if I remember well what you wrote), yet ordered Premium... But you do not have any proofs for upgrading...
3) If you indicate your interest in upgrading, I suspect Dell (which buys these Windows for mere pennies IMHO) might be able to do something 'special' for you as a valued Dell Customer, simply out of goodwill.
4) You've demonstrated goodwill on your part by first purchasing a Dell system, and then purchasing an extended warranty. Thus being a 'good' client.
5) The reason you didn't care before is moot. Now, while still under Dell extended warranty, you suddenly care to upgrade your system to the latest and greatest Windows 7, yet feel you shouldn't have to purchase a full-price OEM copy. Which is reasonable because all you want to do is to UPGRADE...
6) Regardless whether you had or not received your COA sticker for the proper OS (Vista Home Premium), Dell Customers wishing to upgrade their Windows versions to the latest is a legitimate request. And I think Dell would not only pay attention to that, but would honor their customer's wishes...

What have you got to lose?

And in the meantime, to 'fix' your problem as you originally stated, I think that by installing the Windows 7 RC beta, for free (till June 2010), you will fix your performance problems as Windows 7 is DA BOMB!

Summary:
1) You can always communicate your wishes, any respectable business would care, if you approach them with reason, and a win-win scenario. Don't expect to get it for free. That would be ludicrous, even if there were no original mess-up. One cannot expect to get a free Windows 7 without paying some form of upgrade fee... That would not only be unreasonable, but also childish and delusional.
2) If you are willing to pay something to upgrade, Dell might be able to comply at a very good price. I estimate the cost of the part, such as $50 ~ $80. But it is only an estimate, and we won't know until it actually is done... This way, every policy is satisfied. They CANNOT give away licenses to Windows 7 by contract. But they can help their customers. Microsoft gets their cut. Dell covers their costs for producing the part (shrink wrap, DVD, and COA sticker) which by policy they must charge somewhere... You get it at a 'discounted' price. Everybody is happy!

Good luck!

PS: Of course none of the above assumptions may work in the end... But nobody will know until they try?

Now taking the devil's advocate's perspective:

All Dell OS Install CD's install without having to 'activate', I suspect because of the volume of systems this vendor sells?

Did you have to activate your Vista originally?

If not, then probably Windows 7 won't require activation either, as it would be pre-activated by Dell. However the Dell CD/DVD only installs onto Dell computers... No biggie, since you have a Dell system.

What prevents one from purchasing a Dell System preloaded with Vista during the free upgrade promotion from Microsoft in July? Hmmm?

You receive the system, test it for 30 days, and return it BEFORE the end of the evaluation period, legitimately asking full money back. However, you also in the meantime have 'upgraded' with Microsoft and benefitted from their Free Windows 7... So at some point, you shall receive in the mail a full DVD to Windows 7 including license for that OS, and ethically, you must return it to whoever sent it to you since you also returned the original system...

That is NOT WHAT I AM PREACHING, as this would be completely UNETHICAL. But Dell would be aware of this possibility as well. Thus the rationale for a win-win amicable solution? ;)

~~~~~~~~~~
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
~ Dalai Lama

[elaf70]

I have no software support. Have readed all your comments. Not sure I understand, I am confused to what I should do too resolve this problem with Dell. Purchase a new PC, Tech Team support or Tech Team Trial for 30 days?
[quote name='WinTard']Oh great! 1) Your machine is still under warranty. Since warranty also includes some kind of software support as well IMHO. I believe Dell is a reasonable company, you probably won't get satisfaction at the first or second level support, because these people are powerless to 'break the rules' but if you can somehow manage to escalate beyond the 'supervisor' level, and actually talk to a Manager @ Dell, they may be able (have the authority) to do something about your situation, just as a goodwill gesture. And I do believe Dell and Microsoft cares, regardless of all the nay-sayers and bashers out there.

You have a legitimate complaint (oops request) IMHO:

1) You don't have a COA, since the one delivered with the original system is for XP.
2) You did receive a better OS than you ordered, since you got Vista Ultimate (if I remember well what you wrote), yet ordered Premium... But you do not have any proofs for upgrading...
3) If you indicate your interest in upgrading, I suspect Dell (which buys these Windows for mere pennies IMHO) might be able to do something 'special' for you as a valued Dell Customer, simply out of goodwill.
4) You've demonstrated goodwill on your part by first purchasing a Dell system, and then purchasing an extended warranty. Thus being a 'good' client.
5) The reason you didn't care before is moot. Now, while still under Dell extended warranty, you suddenly care to upgrade your system to the latest and greatest Windows 7, yet feel you shouldn't have to purchase a full-price OEM copy. Which is reasonable because all you want to do is to UPGRADE...
6) Regardless whether you had or not received your COA sticker for the proper OS (Vista Home Premium), Dell Customers wishing to upgrade their Windows versions to the latest is a legitimate request. And I think Dell would not only pay attention to that, but would honor their customer's wishes...

What have you got to lose?

And in the meantime, to 'fix' your problem as you originally stated, I think that by installing the Windows 7 RC beta, for free (till June 2010), you will fix your performance problems as Windows 7 is DA BOMB!

Summary:
1) You can always communicate your wishes, any respectable business would care, if you approach them with reason, and a win-win scenario. Don't expect to get it for free. That would be ludicrous, even if there were no original mess-up. One cannot expect to get a free Windows 7 without paying some form of upgrade fee... That would not only be unreasonable, but also childish and delusional.
2) If you are willing to pay something to upgrade, Dell might be able to comply at a very good price. I estimate the cost of the part, such as $50 ~ $80. But it is only an estimate, and we won't know until it actually is done... This way, every policy is satisfied. They CANNOT give away licenses to Windows 7 by contract. But they can help their customers. Microsoft gets their cut. Dell covers their costs for producing the part (shrink wrap, DVD, and COA sticker) which by policy they must charge somewhere... You get it at a 'discounted' price. Everybody is happy!

Good luck!

PS: Of course none of the above assumptions may work in the end... But nobody will know until they try?

Now taking the devil's advocate's perspective:

All Dell OS Install CD's install without having to 'activate', I suspect because of the volume of systems this vendor sells?

Did you have to activate your Vista originally?

If not, then probably Windows 7 won't require activation either, as it would be pre-activated by Dell. However the Dell CD/DVD only installs onto Dell computers... No biggie, since you have a Dell system.

What prevents one from purchasing a Dell System preloaded with Vista during the free upgrade promotion from Microsoft in July? Hmmm?

You receive the system, test it for 30 days, and return it BEFORE the end of the evaluation period, legitimately asking full money back. However, you also in the meantime have 'upgraded' with Microsoft and benefitted from their Free Windows 7... So at some point, you shall receive in the mail a full DVD to Windows 7 including license for that OS, and ethically, you must return it to whoever sent it to you since you also returned the original system...

That is NOT WHAT I AM PREACHING, as this would be completely UNETHICAL. But Dell would be aware of this possibility as well. Thus the rationale for a win-win amicable solution? ;)

~~~~~~~~~~
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
~ Dalai Lama

[WinTard]

I would simply call Dell Support, explain (succinctly your request), that your warranty is still in effect... That is where I would start? Then if they do not understand, then try to escalate? For instance if they say it is impossible, then say you would like to talk to the supervisor, and go at it again? After which you are now entitled to ask a Manager. NOT SUPERVISOR... Hopefully they will be able to satisfy your request on the first call? But I wouldn hold my breath...

Good luck.

[dragon69]

i had 38 instances of internet exploder 8 running for no appartent reason ( windows media player was some of those ) each using 5,000 k of ram that was slowing down everything



un installed it and internet exploder is only running 1 instance with ie 7 open and also windows media player and everything seems way faster ie . . . web pages open in about 1505 of the time it takes firefox but still faster then ie 8 buit the whole system seems more responsive



well i think i will stay away from ie 8 for a while ( mostly use firefox anyways it even works for windows update now which was for a long time the only reason i kept a internet exploder on this system and when i install win 7 rc i think getting rid of ie 8 will be one of the first things i do after downloading firefox or chrome )



wow vista might not to bad after all seems quite responsive now



gl and tc