[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Smartphone OS Smackdown: WebOS vs. the World here

[supergohan]

As is the norm PC World again criticizes anything that has a microsoft or nokia on it and goes gaga over a fruit!

[arkitekt78]

Here is the problem as I see it. Everyone is looking for the "iPhone Killer", but since the iPhone requires you to use AT&T's bottom-of-the-barrel coverage and network, and other smartphones are tied to providers, there can never be a good comparison. For me, any smartphone offered by my current provider is an iPhone killer for 2 reasons. 1 is I dont have to go back to AT&T and 2, I dont have to join the scores of mindless followers who buy the iPhone because there is a piece of fruit on it.
Message was edited by: bcappel


Actually, before the message was edited by Mr. bcappel, the section that was edited was not meant as political commentary. It was a commentary on the media, which was a valid response to how this particular media outlet does not fairly represent the entire population of technology out there and routinely shows an incredible bias to products from our favorite fruity company. My example was the only one I could think of at the time, so next time people decide to freak out - both readers and the overly paranoid/power hungry moderators, try actually reading the context of the statement, not for keywords like president's names... Give me a break. But I am sure this will be edited again, so I guess this attempt at correcting my post will be useless...

[garment69]

Calling iphone users "mindless followers who like the iphone because it has a piece of fruit on it" really doesn't give the Iphone its due credit. I travel 48 weeks of the year and am totally reliant on email. The Iphone was my primary phone six months. The reason I got rid of it? Battery life and its inability to search for emails. Other than that, it was a great device that made travel at least entertaining. The new 3.0 OS should plug the gaps and I am looking forward to trying it again. Bottom line, it's a dam good device with a company behind it that understands how to innovate and keep its products relevant.

[TechieXP]

I would say that since the majority of the phones are pretty much all touch, then comparing the Storm would have been better.

Please stop dubbing every phone as a possibly iphone killer until one actually does. Which RIM which has 3 devices in the top 5 with the Curve being first is certainly the phone Apple needs to beat...and with Storm WiFI coming this year and EVDO being better tham GSM...Strom is already better than iPhone in so many ways. I can't comment on the other phones accept I did have 2 phones before that had Windows Mobile 6.1...the Motorola QC and the Treo 700WX which I certainly miss greatly. I would say I agree somewhat with the Windows Mobile siply being behind. However I like it better than Symbian and Palm's original OS found on the Treo/Centro models.

The best thing about RIM devices is being able to customize to your liking. I hate phones where you can't change the interface. That was one reason I liked Windows Mobile...I can skin the OS just like teh desktop version and of course Windows simply works with Windows better. The BB certainly works with Windows way better than iPhone. IPhone requires iTunes to use which I hate because I don't want to install iTunes. Most other phones can have music transferred back and forth just using the WMP. The best thing about other phones is that most the flash storage inside appears as a drive in Windows...while iPhone does not. Which means I don't need to install any special software to use media in a phone.

The simply copy paste that Apple left out I don't think is a huge deal..i seldom use copy paste unless it is to get a stibborn link out an email ro use on a mobile browser.

Office mobile and Doc to Go are very good appz which don't appear on iPhone. However the later is coming. However to be considered a business PDA/Smartphone device there should have already been a solution for PDF and Office docs.

Iphone still can't record video, even though cheezy phones that are on pre-pay plans and cost less than $100 can record video even if it is grainy. And only a 2MP camera for a $500 phone is also sad while Storm has a 3.2.

The 2 finger touch is really cool however and the appz are cool too. However with Storm I can skin the iPhone look and ven though it isn't 2 finger touch its works similar in other ways.

The coolest thing I do like about iPhone is the sleek designs, but I find manipulating applications to be bad. It is weird that a phone that uses a stripped down version of a desktop opertaing system has poor multi-tasking...this is where Pre and Windows Mobile certainly have an advantage. Even RIM is better in this regard, but not over the other 2.

I think the revised Storm which no longer has the need to press the glass when typing and the viryual keyboard will work the same whether in layout or landscape mode will be a plus too and of course WIFI....the next Storm is surely going to give iPhone a run for its money.

[DTNick]

No more politics in this thread. Take it to the general talk forum, please: http://forums.pcworl...out/generaltalk

[angylProgrammer]

Being a troll has nothing to do with the quantity of posts. I only have 8 because I just got an account on here. Let me help the simpleton. http://en.wikipedia....iki/Forum_troll
I flame, I don't troll. ;)
As for smartphone OS's, which is ironically, the topic of the discussion at hand, Apple's is a great product. My view is that competition from WebOS, Android, RIM, and yes, even Symbian and Windows is only good. It makes Apple make a better product, which in turn causes other companies to make better products. We as consumers win. It's not about some socialist manifesto power struggle between rich and poor. All these phones are pretty expensive, people. And that's my two cents. Any more relevant observations about the farming economy in Nigeria, Techie?

[TechieXP]

Yes I agree all these phone are expensive, yet Apple manage to leave many features that other phone have out. And iPhone users are complaining big time. And the biggest complain is Iphone being so great is on the worst network in this country. Yet ATT who is one of teh biggest who claims more bars in more places. What good is it...if it still doesn't work. EVDO is better and it is faster especially since data is teh biggest use of a Smartphone. Some users becaus eof teh large footprint of PDA or Smartphones carry a second phone to actually talk on and use the PDA/SF for business stuff. And out of them the iPhone is more like a media player (which is what it is) with phone feature and Apple is desperately trying to add business like features.

Example...most sartphones come native with soe tyep of Office application..eiether Docs to Go or Office Mobile for Windows Mobile? What did iPhone come with? Nothing!

Most phones natively offer support for Exchange. Did iPhone at first? No! It was added later.
Does iPhone natively have copy/paste...record video and so many other function that ALL other PDA/SF have? No.

The only thing the other phones ar going with is the all touch concept. But it is nothing new...MSFT was already working with Touch years before Apple decided to use it. And their were touch based phones again well before Apple had one. All Apple did was make a more intuitive interface for it and make the phone prettier. Which I admit is very nice...but it isn't the best phone....it is however the best of its specific type. However the work was cut out for them..because they stole the concept of teh look of Iphone from LG who had the phone called the Prada and Apple stole the concept of the look of the physical phone. Even LG stated it in public as fact. That after they show'd off the Prada at a show, Apple went and destryoed its original work set out for iPhone and to the look of the Prada.

And I agree with teh first commenter...there are certainly better phones out there than iPhone...I am not impressed by look but looks with function. Iphone has less fuctions then phones that cost 1/2 its price and others that cost exactly the same. Yet these phones were out first.

One thing that is great by not being first with a new product...is to capitalized on the other istake. Like Palm did with the Pre. Even tho iPhone uses Mac OSX it sucks in handling multiple tasks. Something Windows Mobile and RIM devices do well. Looks aren't everything.

Nintendo has lived greatly in not following or rushing...the idea..let the other guy make it first...that way we can make it better. If MSFT had made the first Touch screen and it was just like what Apple has now and they were first...then everyone would be copying MSFT. So whats teh big deal because Apple did it?

Its a nice phone that offers limilted capabilities unless you jailbreak it and it is on American's crappiest network. Version could have had it, but they wanted to have their own API on top of the abilities of teh phone and ATT was willing to let Apple have the phone as is, instead of making it carrier dependant as far as the interface. I think Version would have added features to teh OS that would have made the phone better then what Apple provide natively. And if the 4G version ends up on Verizon we will get to see that.

I want one, but until Apple decides to leave ATT, I won't waste money on a great device to use on a crappy network.

As far as t=your other rant. Shove it. It was a nasty prejudice comment and you should be burned for it...so you can see what a flame feels like.

[angylProgrammer]

There's no big deal that Apple did anything first. They just did it better this time. Apple had the first GUI, but it sucked. MS made 3.1, which was a huge improvement over Apple's limited GUI. But guess what? Now, MS has resorted to lazy development. OS's filled with memory leaks and bugs. XP shipped with over 60000 known errors. That is unacceptable. I wish windows could beat OSX. I have high hopes for 7. You know why? Because competition results in improvement. For everyone. The same principles work in phones. The discussion is on the phone OS, not the carrier. AT&T does suck, I know; I have an iPhone. But I won't settle for less than the best phone. So I suffer through AT&T's retardation for it. That's my choice, and the choice of millions of other iPhone users. But it has nothing to do with the phones. I know what a flame feels like. I've been using various online forums for many many years now. Flaming isn't a bother to me, I expect it half the time. They can even be funny. But trolling is a pain in the crack. I don't see why politics or anything of the sort have to be brought up when discussing phones. I like you, Techie. You know what you believe, so do I. But please save the trolling for the general topic areas. Agreed?

[WinTard]

What a load of Apple BS or Angry BS???

[smax013]

DTNick said:

No more politics in this thread. Take it to the general talk forum, please: http://forums.pcworl...out/generaltalk

Actually, no politics period (even in General Talk) unless it falls into the exceptions outlined in rule #18 of the Community Standards:

"Do not engage in off-topic political discussion. If a news story is political in nature, then discussion related to the topic is allowed. Discussion of political issues that are not relevant to technology or to a PC World news story will be deleted."

[kefka]

"The OS will still lack true multitasking, however"
The iPhone OS is based on Apple's Mac OS X. The OS very well does support true multitasking, if it did not, it couldn't do half of the things it does. Like I don't know maybe ring when you are looking up movie times?
Just because the operating system only allows one application to take over the screen at a time this is not terribly different from the desktop. In truth you can't write an email in Outlook when you are editing a Word document so does that mean Microsoft doesn't support true multitasking? I mean you really can't do two things at once, even if you can see them but this is not the definition of multitasking. :)
http://en.wikipedia....er_multitasking

[TechieXP]

Its not the matter of can it do multi-tasking...its how. Switching back and forth from different appz is not user friendly. Example...if I have more than 1 app running on the Storm and I want to switch to another, I simply bring up the box that shows my other programs and simply pick it.

But the way to do it, is a bit more user friendly. I wasn't expecting a phone to be like a computer...I personally was speaking of the ease to switch appz.

[kefka]

TechieXP,
Switching between applications isn't user friendly? I guess the iPhone should just know what you want through ESP and then load that application for you on a whim?
You were wrong, plain and simple. Don't try and backpedal, don't try to re-define your intentions. If the iPhone makes it difficult, in your opinion, to switch between applications then say that, don't use big words to make it appear as if you are writing with some type of technical insight into the issue. It is insulting to yourself and to your readers.
The original Mac OS Finder did not support multi-tasking which meant a user could run only one application at a time. This meant, for example, that if you wanted to copy data from one application to another you would load a document in one application, copy your data, close your current application and open the next application then paste. That is what not having multitasking means.
The iPhone does not suffer from that limitation but rather from a vendor decision not to allow applications to run in the background. Background applications and multi-tasking are two entirely different concepts from a computer science standpoint and an end-user standpoint.
As for switching between applications some tens of millions are quite happy with their iPhones. I'm sorry it doesn't suit you personally but I doubt Apple is going to pay much attention to your complaint given that you wrapped it up in an overly dramatic buzz-word laden and patently false claim that the iPhone doesn't support multitasking.
In fact the iPhone OS 3.0 seems to provide a number of API that allow, for example, notifications from an application that isn't currently "open". That wouldn't be possible in any way, shape, or form if the iPhone didn't possess multitasking functionality.
L2ComputerScience?

[TechieXP]

I didn't back pedal. And I never said iPhone didn't have multi-tasking...I said it wasn't good. And it isn't just my words...I have seen many comment about the same. A willingness to deal with it, is not the same as being happy. Just like many people use Windows, don't use it because they are happy...they use it because they have too.

And many of those who compalin about the said problem is right here on PcWorld/MacWorld.
I said what I said and I stand behind it.

And you saying how the phone is suppose to know what's in your mind was so blanket.
I am not sure how much ATT actually limited. From what I read it wasn't anything much at all. Verizon actually had very good ideas, problem was they want to build there own interface on top of the OS. Apple wanted the phone to be as is...which as is is what ATT is selling. And you can tell because you can simply you the Touch which is the same device...the capabilities on multi-tasking is limited compared to other SmartPhones. One of teh reasons teh Blackberry is still outselling the iPhone. When it comes to dealing with multiple appz..those and Windows Mobile handle those types of tasks better.

[kefka]

It was the author of the article that said "The OS will still lack true multitasking ... " so whether you said it or not isn't the question. The bottom line is the phone supports multitasking under pretty a technical definition of the term. That was my argument, that was my issue with the article. You can attempt to redefine the intent of the author to suit your counter-argument but I've no interest in such an argument.

[Krog]

I found this review, along with many other reviews about the BlackBerry Storm, extremely misleading.
After a reasonable amount of research I picked up a BlackBerry Storm last week, thinking it was the perfect solution to manage my Exchange Calendar and my Office Documents.
I simply can not remember when I have been more DISSAPOINTED with a product.
I was told by several reviews, including this one, that the Storm was one of the best handhelds to manage email. I was also told it worked with Microsoft Exchange and with Office Documents. I suppose I failed to delve deep enough to find the fine print to discover the truth.
What the reviews fail to mention, is to get the BlackBerry to work with Exchange involves expensive infrastructure upgrades to your mailsystem, and a bunch of third party RIM software! BlackBerry does crude job of accessing your Exchange mailbox through Outlook Web Access, jamming both sent and received items into one big folder, BUT OUT OF THE BOX IT HAS NO SUPPORT TO SYNC WITH YOUR MICROSOFT EXCHANGE CALENDAR OR CONTACTS!
When I called my phone provider to help me troubleshoot this issue, they told me to talk to MY tech support. I thought I was! They told me they have no actual training to do this as it's is a ridiculously convoluted process!
To get it to ACTUALLY WORK, involves setting up a BlackBerry Enterprise Server at your companys' expense. The tutorials explaining this bizare and unnessisary procecure last over an hour, but you soon realize that they recommend installing a separate server just to manage the communications to your BlackBerry clients. To be fair, security under the BES system seems to be superior to ActiveSync, but I don't understand thier argument that it's cheaper to do it this way.
What a Deal Breaker!
This was certainly not the "out of the box" experience I was expecting, as most smartphones I've worked with can be configured to work seamlessly with Exchange in under 5 minutes!
When I posted to my tech forum about the problems I was having with the Storm, I was greeted with a chorus of sympathetic complaints: No Flash support, lots of dropped calls even in major downtown centers, conversations hard to hear, tiny little controls that are obscured by your finger, problems setting up basic email, can't install apps....
I did, eventually, get the apps to work but was immediately and completely underwealmed. Out of the tiny collection of apps I found, only two seemed to be of any use to me: MSN Messenger and the weather app. The majority of the rest of the apps could be easily replaced with a simple Google search. The collection of games is laughable: pong, golf, bowling, and billiards.
I NEVER thought I would ACTUALLY PREFER a Windows based device.
Harry McCrackin, if that is somehow your real name, I would have appreciated a review with less of your opinion and more actual facts.

[TechieXP]

First off, before you critizise the Storm leys make sure you understand a few things. First off teh process you used too use the Storm with Exchange is required for ALL RIM devices...not just Storm.

Also please understand why RIM's way is better.

I agree with you Windows Mobile device will sync to Exhange musch easier. Well that is a given since WM device come with Outlook and Outlook is the client of Exchange.
iPhone syncs with Exchange just as easy bec Apple licensed Exchange push/pull technology from MSFT tp make iPhone work just as easy. RIM chose what potentially is a safer route and here is why.

Bec iPhone and WM devices offer native Exchange support they are actually less safer to use with Exchange. If someone knows your email address and password, they could use ANY WM/iPhone and access your account. A RIM device will deny them and here is why. RIM devices have a PIN number assigned to each device. The software you needed to install acts as a proxy for your phone to link it to Exchange. The RIM Software verifys that the PIN being used is teh one authenticated in the software before allowing it to exchange email.

This is not true of the other devices and thus unsafe and here is why. If someone know how to provision a cellphone for usage..they could simply reprogram any phone to have your phone number and thus simply use Outlook or iPhone to get access to your email. Again this would require knowing your Exchange email afress and pass. Which someone else can know...right? Or can easiy find out...right? With RIM the PIN is assigned at teh factory and cannot be chanced except by RIM. Which means if someone gets you email address and try to log in to your account, unless that PIN is assigned to your account...that phone will be denied access. That is doubling the secuirty in your behalf.

Sure is is a PITA to install the software on an Exchange Server but it is worth it. I found the software to be easy and it only took me 35 mins to get it working properly. I also found that it was easier to install based on how recent the version of Exchange was. It took me 15 mins to get it going on Exchange 2007 vs Exchange 2000. And that fact that I learn what to do from the first go-round made it easier the next time.

So for anyone considering using RIM devices with Exchange, understand why RM's process is more secure and probably why the President was allowed to use his Blackberry. Bec if he had an iPhone or a Windows Mobile device, his email would have been less secure. And another reason RIM's process is better...lets just say your IT guy decide to give you information for login to Exchange to another employee or he/she themselves use a RIM device to access your account. That PIN is tracked by RIM's software. You could find out excactly what phone did it and who it belongs to by simply giving the PIN number too RIM. RIM will then know what carriers phone was used and then the carrier can easily find out who the owner of the phone is. In fact RIM probably has that info bec when you provision a RIM device, it is register automatically with RIM. So they know exactly when you purchased and first activated the phone. Which is why you get an email saying your device has ben registered. This is a bebefit to you and is much safer. So RIM's PITA process is one extra step and thus it has been chosen as #1 as the safest device to use with office email.

Some headaches are smply worth having. This is one of them

[JakeB]

Let me guess, Techie Boy -- don't have an iPhone but deep in your heart of hearts, you REALLY, REALLY want one.
So you gotta rain on everyone's parade. And by everyone I mean the millions who use, enjoy, and LOVE their iPhones, iPods, and Macs.
Windows Mobile!
It's okay, dude. We feel your pain.

[Erick10]

PLaying catch up last 2 years? BS, apple has been trying to imo. What no multi-task, MMS, Copy/Paste. PPCWORLD are just FanBoys. Specially just seeing the Hottest Smartphones Around on MSN and not including one hot Windows Mobile Phone because they know the Iphone 3GS would get owned by HTC TOUCH PRO 2. FAN BOYS!!!