[swccman]

Cygwin is a little different, especially when dealing with threading processes. String handling is the easy part. Actually I really enjoy the new windows scripting models, the ability to make objects that expose the API are way cooler than RPC calls and IPC protocols.



"It's amazing what you can train a monkey to do"....me

[WinTard]

I concur, AMD is ultra-reliable. I still have four systems running with mobos of the type Asus A7V333, since 2002. 24/7/365... And an Asus K8V-MX running a 64-bit AMD acting as a game server, always online. Zero problems here...

[swccman]

My AMD X2 4800+ has been running flawlessly for going on two years now. I game on a PS2. It is rumored that Zipper Interactive, the group that created the SOCOM series is going to start writing for Xbox 360 and Ubisoft will be developing more games for the X360 platform, just as well, I have a birthday coming up in August, so this will be my treat to me. I like shooters with real squad level control. My AMD box, as I have mentioned, it is just a multimedia IO box and a small file cabinet. Flawless it has been, all I do is open it up once a month and take a dust can to it. My next machine may be intel quad core, depends what is on sale from Dell around Christmas time in the XPS line. My linux machine, an older AMD Athon has been running 24/7 for years, occasionally I give it old init 6, a reboot.



For a little while it actually ran Ubuntu 8.04 on the newer AMD X2, but after trying the W7U demo, I wanted it. I bought VU-64 for $80 and have never looked back. Linux, it runs my networks IP services, and it does that well. WIntard, I am a vidiot, when not teaching or practicing Combat SAMBO ( a Russian thing), I am either playing video games, or using the wonderful WEC, My new desktop will fer sure not be Linux.

[rasmasyean]

Not only is Linux behind in touch interaction with computers...it is also way behind voice interaction with computers. And this is only the beginning. Maybe Windows will have movement detection via webcam like Project Natal? Yeah, try to open source that by finding some Ph.D.'s who have nothing better to do than make vision systems for an OS that you can't sell. lol
VistaDictation.com, A Company Specializing in the Implementation of Medical Vocabularies for the Vista Speech Voice Recognition Engine, Has Launched Their New Website
www.prweb.com/releases/Medical/Transcription/prweb2464704.htm

[yankeeDDL]

Rasmasyean,

once again I see generic claim of behing behind or ahead without much arguments behind it.
Ubuntu does support complex touch-screen features. Today. (A little reminder: W7 is not yet released).
Some of the features of Ubuntu for netbooks: http://www.ubuntu.co...r-netbook-remix

On speech recognition though you're right: there isn't any good/comprehensive application (at least not that I know of) on Linux. I never really used or had the need to use voice recognitio, nor I see this as a major deficiency in Linux. Actually, before I read your post I don;t remember last time I even stumbled across a discussion on speech recognition.
On the other hand, multi-touch is quite handy and it's something that everybody can get easily familiar with.

[swccman]

Wooo, chill. Linux users go to Linux for a variety of reasons. Until I could get Vista Ultimate at a reasonable price ($80 for download and activation key), I used Ubuntu 8.04 x86_64. I got ivtv working, and it was darn good and stable, but I hated Gnome and KDE. Some other erudite soul suggested Xfce. The Nvidia and the Creative drivers we less than good. I don't game on my PC, it's strictly for documentd, email and it also conrols my television and it is connected to my receiver, so I have real sound, not toys. I stil use Ubuntu as a 2 TB storage server for all the media I collect. I use VLS to serve to all the clients on the network,

WU-64 has all kinds of hooks, in the last Media Center update I was all of a sudden able to grab movies off netflix. Really, my computer is a multimedia IO box, even my PS2 connect to my receiver. W7U is a great OS, the kernel has really undergome some changes. I love the Windows desktip world, Konqueror really can't do a credible emulation of IE. Open Office is usefull in that it can open and create .doc (MS Word) files as well as .ppt files.

I have been in the militant linux camp, but why bother, I just want stuff that workd. Linux is my router, my firewall and all my ip services, Through SAMBA it brodcasts it's shared. I don't know what I'd do if I lost either box, but I really like this VU-64 machine. EIther this piece of hardware (AMD 4800+ X2) or my next will be the Windows 7 machine.

[yankeeDDL]

Whi the "chill"? I'm chill alright :)

I agree with you and I had already stated it in a previous post on this thread: Linux is a little behind in usability as far as the "latest and greatest" gadgets are involved.
Touch support is not one of those areas, frankly.
Bluetooth support is also quite good. Is the drivers of the peripheralsconnected via bluetooth that are lacking. Or maybe drivers in general.

Some examples: my Epson printer is recognized immediatly (it isn't in XP and I never used Vista/W7) but I don't get to see the ink levels. Annoying. Bluetooth works like a charm but handling a new audio source/output is not as straightforward as with Windows. Graphic drivers are not up to par with Windows.

In my daily use I haven't really found anything that I cannot do with Linux. Most things are done faster and with more flexibility on Linux, simply because the whole system is way faster. But there are some annoyances compared to a "clean" windows installation. Of course the lack of viruses, the lack of the ever-more-bloated "registry", the zippy boot/shutdown times vastly make it up for it.

If you need the absolute cutting edge, it's obvious that a commercial OS like Windows with a huge market share will always be first (ehm ... not always: Linux already has drivers for USB 3.0) and it's fine by me. I do use WIndows too and if there's something that works better there, I have no problem using it. I have used windows ever since and I will continue using it. But for everyday tasks I really see no match. Surfing the web in total security, having tons of windows and apps open without noticeable system slowdown and an overall dramatic increase in system responsiveness, a hassle-free experience without updating anti virus, anti spyware, defrag, disk cleanup, registry cleanup, startup cleanup .... it's just priceless. It's the way computing experience should be.

[rasmasyean]

You mean:
"Surfing the web and running into sites that have nerfed functionality or don't work...and with a browser that lacks a decent choice of add-ons (not to mention a limited choice of browsers period...and when you find some free software that you're really so into because it's FREE, the good ones are usually for Windows and you have to hunt down some 3^rd^ rate Linux equivalent...but hey...it's still FREE! WOHOO!"

[yankeeDDL]

@ Rasmasyean

That's uncalled for and quite an offensive post actually. You've been warned.

[rasmasyean]

Why is it "offensive"? It holds truth enough to hit your nerve? LOL Whatever, man. As long as you are "one with Linux" I suppose every attack on this entity that you can't even touch will be "offensive"!

[yankeeDDL]

I am not one with Linux. I use both Linux and Windows. And I do so on the same PC which makes it very easy for me to compare pros and cons and what I stated is the truth. Your post on the contrary was, like you say, an attack, and an offensive and derogatory one at that.

This article is about Windows 7 vs Linux. I brought my facts to it and some interesting reference. You instead seem only to be interested in bashing Linux by making statements that are obviously false:

> "Surfing the web and running into sites that have nerfed functionality
or don't work...

FireFox, Opera and now Google for Linux work fine. And because I don;t nee dto worry about security, I don;t nee dto use NoScript like I do on WIndows. The websites work just as fine as in Windows, like you would know if you have tried it.

> and with a browser that lacks a decent choice of
add-ons (not to mention a limited choice of browsers period...

FireFox is "the" browser when it comes to add-on. I use the same exact add-ons on Linux that I have on Windows.
Safari is the only browser currently not supported on Linux. I don't use it, so I don't care.

> and when
you find some free software that you're really so into because it's
FREE,

I'm not into free software because it's free. I'm into good software. You may choose to ignore MS EULA when you accept it, but that's your problem. I choose differently. On Linux I use OpenOffice, VLC, Pidgin, Firefox, Thunderbird ... exactly the same software I use on Windows.

> the good ones are usually for Windows and you have to hunt down
some 3^rd^ rate Linux equivalent...but hey...it's still FREE! WOHOO!"

That's your opinion and as soon as you can back it up by some fact, we can talk about it. Now read again this last line of your and tell me that you don't think it's meant to be offensive.

[rasmasyean]

I'm just trying to point out the distinction between:
"as long as you never will want to use so and so"
and...
"it can do anything equivalent to Windows"
There's a difference. And as long as you clearly indicate that without any misleading statements aimed at people who don't know any better, I don't have a problem with you preferring Linux, or MacOS, or BeeOS, or Windows 95.


P.S.
ActiveX and Silverlight don't work on Linux regardless of browser. And when and if they do work, they lag behind.
So even if you are mostly a "web user" you can run into limitations.

[rasmasyean]

bq. {quote:title=yankeeDDL wrote:}{quote} That's your opinion and as soon as you can back it up by some fact, we can talk about it.


Oh oh... I got some! How about FaceBook Desktop Apps? Yahoo Messenger? Windows Live Photo Galery is a cheat but I guess I'll include this one too because it holds 25GB. Not only can you not use the desktop viewer and automater, you can't even drag and drop items to your browser if you don't install the desktop version.
Those are just some big name ones that you will have to settle for a substitute (if available) and often even hack it to get it to work sometimes lin Linux.

This one cracks me up. AIM 1.5 for Linux! heehee

[yankeeDDL]

So you just go off bashing, but if somebody makes a statement about Linux it need sto have disclaimers?!? That's an interesting perspective. Says a lot about you actually.

It's not a matter of "equivalent": Thunderbird, Firefox, Skype, Openoffice, Acrobat reader, VLC player, Pidgin, Opera, VPN, VNC, Gimp ... they are Linux versions of the same program in Windows. I use the same exact software on both platforms. Some started for windows and were porte dto Linux, other the other way around. To me, it does not matter.

So, if you want to:
- have an OS that, once installed, gives you a PC "ready to go" with most common applications, including an office suite, installed
- an OS that won't warn you about the lack of anti-virus, or anti-spyware, or a backup software the first time you start it up
- forget about viruses and malware
- have tremendous startup times, even on old hardware or on relatively underpowerd hardware (Intel's classmate netbook boots in 5~10sec)
- have a large list of tested software in virtually any category, from video to image editing, from games to educational, from productivity to programming, ready to downloaded installed and configured with a click
- support of practically ALL legacy hardware and most recent hardware
- use your hardware to run application, not background "security software"
- have the OS take care of updating most applications, not only the OS itself
- have access to a large online community willing to support and give advices for free 24/24
- customize your desktop and make it look like WIndows, MacOS, Linux or just about any way you like it
- re-vitalize your old PC, or save the money for a new laptop for a vacation
- forget about what is a "registry" and what is "defrag"
- learn a new, highly customizable interface

Then Linux is for you.

If instead you need to:
- run the latest and greatest videogames using DirectX
- use the most advanced drivers for the latest hardware
- support some "corporate" policy

Then Windows is your choice.

Just FYI: there'sIEs4Linux which supports up to IE6 which lets you use even the most IE-oriented website. Also, there are free equivalents of Silverlight which run just fine on Firefox for Linux.
I don't use Yahoo messenger on Windows for 2 reasons:
a) I have more than one Yahoo account and messenger lets me login only one at the time. So I use pidgin instead which also requires 1/5th of the memory AND does not have advertisements
b) I have other accounts on other IMs too (like MSN) and those too require much memory on Windows, so I combine all of them in Pidgin (for Windows and for Linux: same software). Pidgin uses ~20MB to support 7 IM acocunt on 4 different services. Yahoo messenger need 100MB for 1 account alone and Live Messenger is on the same range.

I also use Facebook (on Linux) and never had any problem. I am an heavy web user and haven't run into any limitations whatsoever using Linux.
As a web user I fell a lot safer running Linux where I know, I have no chance to get infected by viruses or malware and to me that's more important than a "potential" risk of running into troubles. Risk that I have yet to see materialize.

Sorry man, that's my experience. And, really, you should try it because from what you say it's quite clear that really, really have no idea about Ubuntu.

[rasmasyean]

I don't have to try Ubuntu to get "hands on experience" with using it or whatever. Just by what you say, you confirm what I say. And I know it won't be sufficient for my needs. I want to use whatever software and hardware I want at any given moment. And sure you can run any piece of software that takes 1 kilobyte of memory if you like. But something that looks more like the following does do something for the user experience.



And also, quit lying and exagerating like a all other linuts that just blow their love affair with the OS out of proportion. Siverlight "equivalent" is in preview stage now after over a year since 2.0 released.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_(runtime)

And I'm going to trust IE6 works too? Or how about 7 and 8? I guess I'll have to wait another couple of years and hope they (along with a whole bounch of other software) goes from garbage rating to gold in Wine...if it ever does. And that's not even to mention the handful who actually reach "platinum".

[swccman]

IE4Linux is kind of lame, and the useability of WINE, fuggedabout it. All of these are attempt to make a Linux desktop run as smoothly as a Windoes desktop. Why botrher....as far as defrag goes, I guess you have never written a script to gather all of a superblock's free inodes, In fact part of Ubuntu's startup routine is a quick fsck. Have you ever had to drop to runlevel (init 3) to fix an xorg.conf file, well I have. Too much hassle.

Hey I'm just an old sailor, but I know what I like, and I can figure out just about any problem. I have friends that work in Linux all day and come home to their Windows XP desktops and breath a sigh of relief. As far as legacy hardware goes, I have a two year old Dell AIO 946 printr, Ubuntu can't print to it because it is like a winmodem, it off loads procesess to the CPU..

Thwre is a purpose for almist eveu machin, I find Linux a good, low cost serve, but as a desktop, I'll pass. Enjoy your desktop in peace, but please don't prostylitize.

[swccman]

The truth hurts...

[rasmasyean]

Oh yeah..."defrag". I forgot to mention that that activity is history. Vista defrags itself and self optimizing disc cache to make things launch faster according to personal habits. For most cases...it's obsolete. Personal defrag software can join the ranks of floppy disks.
Here's some "modern technology news" that was first announces just a shy 3 years ago... ;)
Understanding how SuperFetch uses RAM to enhance system performance...
blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=735
Windows Vista - SuperFetch & ReadyBoost
[http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/29/windows-vista-superfetch-readyboost.aspx]

[yankeeDDL]

@swccman,
IE4Linux is lame, indeed. But it is a tool that allows you to run non-standard websites on Linux. Never needed it, never used it, but you do have achoice. Try to run applications designed for Linux on Windows, then tell me how did that go.
Yes, Linux does fsck automatically and based on disk usage, and that was years ahead of Vista's "auto" optimization.

And yes, Linux is not as user firendly as Windows when it comes with self configurations (I did need to go into the xorg.conf when using Ubuntu 8.04, but everything is automated since 8.10, at least as far as I'm concerned), but if you think that Windows is more user firendly than Linux, in general, think again. I have got tens, maybe hundreds of call that sounded like :Hey, my PC is slow to a crawl now, it wasn't like this when I bought it: is it broken?" or "I am getting windows popping up all over and I can't use my PC anymore: what do I do?" or again "Lately my PC keeps crashing at anything I do: didn't use to do that". Windows deteriorates, period. An experienced user can do something about it, but that's hardly "user firendly". I run "System maintenance", a software designed by Microsoft to do maintenance on Windows XP, so it should be good at what it does. I guess I don't need to say anything more.

The fact is, everybody can grasp the annoyance of typing a couple of command lines, but if they looked beyond their nose they'll see the problems ahead.

Look, I have used Windows for, what, 18 years probably, and I still do. I know windows inside out. I have run it and worked on tens of PCs with just about any version of Windows. I'm new to Linux: just over 6 months and the difference is stunning. Linux has limitations, no questions about it, but it's a great os and just about every issue that bugs me with Windows is addressed in an elegant and efficient way in Linux. I like that. I like efficiency. So I switched to it and I am loving it and I think that most of the people that crossed my path and have, literally, suffered using their Windows PC could discover a whole new experience.
If you don't like it, or if you need the latest and greatest gaming experience, then Linux is not for you, and that's fine. Having choices is always a good thing in my opinion. A world with only Windows (or only Linux) will likely be a lesser one.

The trouble is that people watch TV advertisement with the latest DirectX games and think how great they are (and they are!) but don't realize that there are millions of great games with stunning graphics also on Linux. They see an advertisement of how great Windows is and they think it's really the way to go and don't even know that they do have a choice. When you go buy a car, you like to have options. You may have preferences for a certain brand, but it's nice to see that you can choose a cheaper one if you have budget limitations, or a faster one if that's what you like. People have an half baked image of Linux running crappy applications with horrible graphics. Fact is, Linux's graphic intergace and application today are stunning. A quick look at http://gnome-look.org will give you a perspective.Transparencies, graphic animations, colorful icons ... you have all the goodies that you can see in Vista and much more and all totally customizable. People find snapshots of old hacked apps with crappy graphics and thing tha's what they're getting. That's Linux alright, 10 years ago. Denying it, looking for that one single application that just doesn't work well on Linux as an excuse to try to self-convince themself that Windows is really better, says a lot about them. Ignoring the fact that MS EULA is limiting your own freedom (http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/420) is a proof of the state of denial in which they live.

What I don't get is why do they complain about an alternative? If they don't like it and don't want to try it, just don't use it, but don't go around and spread old/false rumors about it.

[swccman]

I'm more of a right tool for the right job kind of guy, and for my little multimedia IO client is nominal. As a retired Military Officer, I've learned that nothing costs more than free. For 30 years of my life, I have had the unfortunate involvement with computers ranging from MVS (OS/JCL) machines the size of a room to military issue equipment to my pleasent little PC, the little guy that does what I need it to do.

I repsect your knowledge, but over the years I have learned that nothing is free, there is always a cost associated with the word free. As a retired commander I have to look at what those costs are, I went through two consecutive releases of Ubuntu( Gibbon through Heron), used them for years. I understood the cost was having to piece things together and I did. Most people won't or can't deal with that price tag. At $80 for the download and activation key, I decided to give VU64 a try. I like it, it does more than I thought it would. I made a W7 partion using gparted ( a Linux utility) and W7 works really well for it's purpose. Companies like netfix actually integrate with Windows Media Center, somethng that came with the media center upgrade, totally nice.

Ask any tuna you happen to see, he'll tell you it's easier to swim with the currents than against them.