[Evildave]

Well, I try.

[yankeeDDL]

Rasmasyean,

you keep bringingup new discussions that have nothing to do with where you started off. What you say about not knowing what the future will bring is obviously very correct. I see no relevance with the fact that MSO keeps breaking compatibility and not following established standards.
Have a look here http://en.wikipedia..../Microsoft_Word in the "Layout issues" and "Bullet and Numbering" section.
One small extract: <<For example, Office 2007 cannot align tabs for multi-leveled numbered lists, although this is a basic functionality in OpenOffice.org>>

Open formats change too: the point is how they change and how they try to make them backword compatible. The Open Document Format 1.2 is an extension of 1.1 which is an extension of 1.0. So there is one set of ODF-compliant files. If a document uses 1.0, then opening it with a 1.2-compliant software brings you no issues. In contrast, Word95 is a completely different beast from Word97 which is yet another thing from the .docx format. At least there though they changed the extension.

[rasmasyean]

I'm not sure what the big gripe is about Open XML (the Office 2007 spec).
First of all, theoretically, it allows you more freedom to manipulate the file without a Microsoft product. If you unzip a .docx and .xlsx file, you can see that it sort of looks like HTML. In contrast to before, it was a binary file and you can't really read it without MS software / widgets / OLE / etc.
Second of all, they don't care about your little problem with formats. That's the micro world. What they care about is selling software. The only way they can continue selling not only Office 2007, but also Vista, Server 2008, Internet Information Services, Microsoft Visual Studio, now Silverlight services...etc...etc...etc... is if the new Office version (and formats) allow things like Spreadsheets and PPT embedded nicely within Word documents and enhance collaboration with Sharepoint, Groove, and whatever enterprises like to use. It can even be with software you never heard of from Sun or IBM. AND they care that they can make programs that query data and automatically generate 5,000 word files daily or whatever to be sent out to customers. They increase the capabilities with each version perhaps so that you can do all those things "better".
For example go here:
www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
Now imagine that someone from Sales or something has like 5 different applications like google search but for customers and inventory, etc. When they enter criteria and hit search in one of them, it brings up a list of 300 orders. Then they select one order and click a button next to it that says "Edit Custom Invoice"... which pops up a Word "form" where they put some comments in like "Your CPU is on backorder until 6/20/2009 and will arrive separately. Sorry...". Then at 3 PM a printer spits out all these invoices (including customized ones) in the warehouse...or maybe directly at UPS???
Your 20 documents you've kept since MS Office 1.0 doesn't seem that significant anymore. ;)

[CaptainKeyboard]

I have tried Corel WordPerfect Office 2002. WordPerfect 2002 is the best program in the suite. When I researched Paradox, the database program in the WordPerfect suite in the database reviews by PC Magazine, Paradox was fairly easy for a beginner to learn, but it was less powerful to use than Access 2002. The only disadvantage of Access is that it has a longer learning curve for a beginner. Yet, the program is more effective in many ways, including the data access pages that can be made for the Internet or an Intranet site. The disadvantage of Microsoft Office programs is the Header and Footer submenu is in the View menu, instead of the File menu, as with WordPerfect.

All in all, I would not recommend to simply upgrade or not upgrade to the next edition of a program. It is only a choice that each individual or business to choose. It is not a matter of right or wrong. It is a matter of what each person likes. By the way, thank you for agreeing with my last comment about the Microsoft Office XP Professional suite. - Captain Keyboard

[CaptainKeyboard]

Usually typical offices require concurrent versions of programs in order to do work speedily and readily than before. There are some businesses and individuals who are satisfied to hold down to the present software even hardware they use that they feel no need to upgrade to newer products. Yet, they can make and design files and documents and work with more concentrated files as easily as users who work with newer software and hardware. However, the choice to upgrade to newer products should be an individual preference a person or an organization is to make. Buying new hardware or software for the sake of following the numbers is not necessarily for everyone.

In my case, I do not need a current suite of office programs necessarily, because I am a home typist. Microsoft Office XP Professional programs work fine for me. Although I have been using them for more than 7 years, I discover the new methods of performing different tasks that enable me to produce files and documents effectively. My computer may not be equipped to take on Windows Vista, but it works fine with Windows XP Professional as a stand-alone computer. The modern office may need new hardware , such as computers with liquid crystal monitors to replace the cathode-ray tube bulky monitors. I understand that office workers prefer Office 2007 because it has a different interface that is more advanced from all the old versions of Office. It uses the ribbon that may appeal to the users instead of the conventional menu tabs. I still enjoy my Office XP Professional with Windows XP Professional. I wonder if the users of Windows and Office 2000 find that they are doing work effectively as me. - Captain Keyboard

[rasmasyean]

The ribbon interface pretty much helps "non-typists" the most. It's for those people who rarely do any serious word processing because it makes it easier for them to discover functions and see what it looks like via instant preview. If you are a pro that remembers all the hot-keys and know what you want it prolly doesn't help much and the only thing you would gain is maybe a speedier context menu if you use it and any additional formatting features (if they invented or licensed extra ones...but maybe you can DL it for older versions too).
I've only dealt with Access once and when I used it, it wasn't that powerful of a database per se, but had a really nice interface and reporting feature though a bit difficult to implement for the average user. "Large" IT departments I believe prefer expensive DBs like Oracle and SQL Server. Though Access seems sometimes useful for small scale personal type data usage. And it has a pretty nifty reporting tool that looks really nice and you can import data from other databases besides its own "desktop-type database". It will take a pretty long time to make reports look like Access ones via traditional methods. I do remember Paradox and it was pretty cool for its time too. So was Quattro Pro. :)

[quackadilly]

"Yeah, 99+% of the 'real world' doesn't need all of that crap. So why make up an elaborate scenario that 0.1% does need, once in a while?
And then you discover the developer used M$ Orifice 2007, and your whole company uses M$ Orifice 2003, and nobody among ten different people in ten different departments can open it at all. So your company makes inquiries for some M$ Orifice 2007 licenses, and gets CONvinced by Micro$uck to upgrade EVERYONE to M$ Orifice 2010 right away! And the company lays of a dozen or two good workers to pay for the upgrade. Then you discover that now the documents can be opened, but the M$ Orifice 2007 macros don't work right anymore, because M$ 'changed things'. Of course, at this point the developer is in deep doo-doo, too. They're scrambling to figure out what Micro$uck broke, and so they have to update to M$ Orifice 2010 like you did, and their other clients are now screwed, because the updates they send to THEM won't open on THEIR versions of M$ Orifice.
WIN! WIN! WIN! For Micro$uck, that is."



Wow....how can you argue with that? I guess you're right. Everyone in the world uses something you don't so they all suck.



The Evil programmer knows all. Everyone switch to Linsux and Open Orifice now or face the fate of not being compatible with the man. Stay with Micro$uck and he'll destroy your computer with his mind blowing haxor skillz!!!!

[quackadilly]

I'm actually still using 2003. I didn't really like the new interface of 2007 that much, and I had no need to upgrade. Most companies that need a "real" database will go with Oracle or SQL......for what I do Access works great. And, yes, those reports in Access are very nice.

[CaptainKeyboard]

My friend, I am glad that I am not alone. Although you are still working with Office 2003, I relish the fact that you are satisfied to have some things to work with. I have told the big boys that if they want to change the software and hardware they are using, they are rightly free to upgrade them. However, there is no right or wrong for upgrading new editions of software. What is right for one person is wrong for another person; and what is wrong for one person is right for another. I do not need to replace Microsoft Office XP Professional, because I am a home typewriter [typist] and even though I am seemingly using some old programs, I have the collective hardware to get the jobs done. I use a color laser printer, scanner and a label printer, all connected to my computer that I call my keyboard. I use Office Depot laser paper. It costs less than famous brand paper and other store brands of laser paper. I continue to learn to perform other operations with the Office XP application programs that I had not tried before. I am able to perform tasks, including heavy-duty ones that would be difficult to do without using a computer. I am sure that you are able to perform tasks smoothly and seamlessly, too. People who use Microsoft Office 2007 will have to spend time to acquaint themselves with a whole new Microsoft Office interface. You probably know that Office 2007 has a ribbon that contains so many selections packed into fewer buttons instead of the menus with drop-down submenus. The one disadvantage that I find with the versions of Microsoft Office that are older than 2007 is that the Header and Footer menu is in the View menu. It should be in the File menu, just as in WordPerfect 2002. As for Microsoft Access 2002, believe it or not, I have learned to use some of the database objects on my own without another person to teach me anything. I make database tables fast and easy; I like working with the Report object; I can create a query, and I tried creating my own forms on some simple databases [like flat-file databases]. I do not need to use the Forms object because I am the only one who uses my own databases. Microsoft Word has been my springboard, because I first learned to use Microsoft Word 6.0 for the Macintosh while attending a printing school to learn Advanced Desktop Publishing. Hence, Microsoft Word is my first favorite program. My second favorite program is Microsoft Access, and then Publisher. Now I am appreciating Microsoft Excel. I use PowerPoint just to typewrite the Jeopardy! final answers and questions to look at the Keria font of the answers. For a nice collection of printer fonts, you may want to try Cosmi Print Perfect Fonts Deluxe. It contains approximately 20,000 fonts. Keep up the good work. Thank you for writing to me and happy keyboarding! - Captain Keyboard

[Evildave]

Quote

{quote:title=quackadilly wrote:}

The Evil programmer knows all. Everyone switch to Linsux and Open Orifice now or face the fate of not being compatible with the man. Stay with Micro$uck and he'll destroy your computer with his mind blowing haxor skillz!!!!

Glad you could see it my way. Though I won't destroy anybody's computer, or their data. Micro$uck already does that every day with their laissez faire attitude about security. That's other software vendors' problem, and an 'optional' component for an M$ OS. It's why you have over a million kinds of virus/spyware/worm/etc. running in your OS. The hugest malware library in the world!

[CaptainKeyboard]

Very iteresting! I never knew that Word 2007 cannot allow some techniques to be performed as on older versions of Microsoft Word. Just like AppScout reported that Excel 2007 could not multiply 850*77.1 in the beginning. Many users who have worked with Microsoft Office will have to spend several minutes looking at the new interface of Microsoft Office 2007 like examing the keyboard of a new typewriter. As for those who like to upgrade their software whenever new versions appear on the market, they are right and free to upgrade. Those who are satisfied to hold on to their software and/or hardware are right not to upgrade to newer versions. That also goes for the big-time companies. I find that Microsoft Office 2007 is suitable for stronger computers that also have separate sound cards and graphic cards that are not integrated with the random accessed memory. I have plenty of power to spare while using Microsoft Windows XP Professional and Microsoft Office XP Professional. Users like you and me can work as powerful as the big boys. Power to the keyboard! - Captain Keyboard

[rasmasyean]

Oh, I just rememberd something about Excel 2007.
Excel 2003 has a limit for 65K rows. Excel 2007 solves that.

[quackadilly]

"Glad you could see it my way. Though I won't destroy anybody's computer, or their data. Micro$uck already does that every day with their laissez faire attitude about security. That's other software vendors' problem, and an 'optional' component for an M$ OS. It's why you have over a million kinds of virus/spyware/worm/etc. running in your OS. The hugest malware library in the world!"


It's too bad you don't post anything factual.......people might listen to you.

[yankeeDDL]

Yes, and Excel 2007 cannot calculate 850*77.1. Excel 2003 solves that.

[rasmasyean]

What's the bug? Was is patched? I get 65,535 for both Excel 2007 and Caclulator.

[yankeeDDL]

h3.
Excel 2007 Multiplication Bug

http://it.slashdot.o...4/2339203.shtml
h2. What's 77.1 x 850? Don't ask Excel 2007
http://www.theregist...007/09/26/excel2007bug/
h1. Critical Excel 2007 bug cripples users
http://groups.google...f8806d5400dfe22
h2. Excel 2007 can't do math (unless 850 * 77.1 = 100,000)
http://www.downloads...0-77-1-100-000/

=============================================================================================

The point is, new version of software introduce new features but also new bugs.
So ... Office wasn't broken: why fix it (and break it)?

[rgreen4]

What are you talking about? Microsoft Office 2007 runs just fine on my old laptop with 1.25GB Ram and integrated video and sound. The laptop runs XP Home because it can't handle Vista. I see absolutely no difference when using Office 2007 on it from Office 2007 on my 1 year old Core2Duo E6750 with 4GB Ram and running Windows 7 64bit RC.
In all cases, Office xxxx uses the OS to interact with the I/O devices and thus if the machine runs Windows XP or better it will run Office 2007 without a problem.
Yes the ribbon takes a bit of getting used to, but once accustomed to it (about 1 day of use) there is no problem. In fact, if you minimize the ribbon, you actually have more screen room as you have only the top menu row showing, the rest is room for your document or speadsheet.