[cmanbrazil]

I usually like to stick up for the guy getting pounded, but I have to agree that this article gives little support for its claims -no support really- and it depends on the reader having a lot of background info many of us don't have.
"Meanwhile, the Pre will never develop the serious developer mojo it needs to have a reach chance at success. This needs to happen before the expected tsunami of Google Android devices later this year again takes the marketplace's attention away from the Pre."
Can anyone explain these two sentences?

[swagg]

1MacGeek said:

@ swagg : No facts you say?

iPhone 3g : $99
Palm Pre : $199

That's as cold, hard, and dispassionately logical as facts come. I would also advance it as a reason the iPhone is "better", in your parlance. And by the way, "great" is a relative term especially when one applies it to the Pre launch. To Palm "great" is 50K units out the door. To Apple 50K is a dismal failure. A quick reminder : the iPhone 3G had a million units out the door the first weekend. These are facts for which you search.

As to what the iPhone can do which the Pre cannot - aside from select from 40K applications, play media on a higher resolution screen, with a battery that lasts longer and seamless, easy sync with iTunes and e-mail - not much.

Perhaps you should face facts and admit you backed the wrong horse.

Lol wow, again with the 40k apps, that I bet you hardly use but 10 of them. You can sync to iTunes?? Wow, so can the Pre, and can plug in directly in as a flash drive, allowing me to Drag and Drop without having to convert file types like the proprietary iPhone. email? really? WebOS will pull not just your email, but your facebook too.. oh yeah, can you download from amazon as well?? and resolution is the same, you have .4 inch bigger screen, but with same resolution, we got smaller pixles and in return have clearer picture.. Typical iPhone user held hostage by fart apps and iTunes..





Have fun "syncing" with a wire, I'll just do it from the neighborhood Hooters while drinking a beer..
Message was edited by: smax013 - no personal attacks please

[dparisoe]

has he even looked at the plan pricing differences.

I'm in the market for 2 new smartphones and I'm currently a sprint customer.

I have been waiting to switch to att only because of the iPhone but now the Pre has me wanting it even more then the iPhone. It is very hard to justify the iPhone even at $99 because of the service contracts.

att.
700min unlimited data and unl. text for 2 phones shared $170.00

sprint
1500min unlimited data and unl. text for 2 phones shared $129.00

for a single phone the difference is 120 to 70.
Message was edited by: smax013 - no personal attacks please

[mickytricky]

What a shame that PC World has to hire people like David to write factless inflammatory articles just to draw some traffic. Shame on PC World. This is a new low for you guys. I have wasted 15 minutes of my life reading and commenting on this article. I feel like removing PC World articles from my list of daily reads.

[Roddly]

"anyone who buys a $199 Pre over a $99 iPhone 3G is seeing something that has quite eluded me."
For one, you can save over 1,000 bucks over the life of the contract with the Pre which is a lot more than the 100 bucks you'd save upfront with the iPhone. It only takes 90 seconds of research to find this out.

[swagg]

Porthos said:

swagg says:
Thu Jun 11 05:59:53 PDT 2009:
Please!! Someone answer that!! And, dont talk about apps, cause thats not out of the box; and if you do talk about apps, then give me some specific apps that make the iPhone better..

OK:

Beejive, 1Password, NewNewsWire, Remember the Milk, Facebook, JAM!, Yelp! (with GPS services), Google Maps (with GPS services), Skype, NYTimes, Shazam, Remote, Parallels, Air Sharing, and a bunch of games.

Please tell me what these apps do..

Beejive

1Password

NewNewsWire

no need to type them up, just explain what they do that will put the Pre in the dirt.



Facebook? Wow, comes on the Pre out the box, and pulls all info from your friends profiles and keeps your contacts up to date with no duplicates. Too easy.



GPS? C'mon, with the everything plan with sprint, GPS is standard with turn by turn, i wont need a compass.



Skype? Wow, skype is used for webcam chatting, does the iPhone have a webcam? Nope, in return Skype is useless.



Shazam has never worked for me on a song that really is rare.



Again, out of the box, without having to download any apps, the Pre kills in functionality..



Maybe you need to research Palm's Synergy and Universal Search technology, then get back to me.

[ozoneocean]

Wow. That's nonsense.
You're comparing different things: That's a "price" on contract. What kind of moron doesn't realise they're paying more because something seems like a deal at face value... Bad question I suppose since idiot's attitude to "credit" deals like that led to the current economic crisis to begin with. Suffice to say that only seems like a good deal to a fool, unfortunately for us all those are pretty common.
Secondly the numbers of sale are different things. Of course the iphone sold so much because it had a dedicated, customised, pre-packaged, salivating fan-base of customers just waiting for it. That's like Microsoft crowing about being the best operating system in the world because almost all non-Apple PC users will always buy Windows OSs. It's so silly it's irrelevant. All that it means is that it's a good thing to have a dedicated (Mac) or captive market (Windows) for your product.
So, whatever. Buy whatever phone you want, it doesn't matter, but only a real freak advocates some particular brand of product everywhere they go, regardless of its relevance to the matter under discussion. That's VERY strange behaviour. Don't proselytise, it's stupid.

[andrewspriggs]

"The best hope for Pre, in the short term, is for Sprint to take such decisive pricing action on its service contracts that it makes Verizon and AT&T look hideously overpriced. How likely is that?"
Uh, that is exactly the case we have. We don't have to wait a day or question how likely ANYTHING is. Verizon and AT&T are hideously overpriced compared with Sprint's Simply Everything plans. I mean, I have AT&T right now, but even I'm smarting at $150 vs. Sprint's Simply Everything for $99 per month.
I mean...seriously now. I know this is PCWorld, not BusinessWeek, but let's try to use time value of money and calculate some market values. $199 up front (or, heck, I'll even grant you it's $299 up front with a rebate that is mailed in later) at most $99 per month (x 24 months) OR $99 up front $150 per month (x 24 months). Even if you discount the values of monthly payments up to today's date, I don't think you can make up the $50 more you're paying with AT&T for all of the plan features.
The problem is that you got the wrong idea from the beginning.
"The problem with the Pre is not that it's a bad product so much as it's a bad idea. A business plan that begins with, "First, Apple or Research in Motion needs to screw-up royally," can't be a good one."
No business plan begins with this that I know of except the one that Mr. David Coursey dreamed up for an article. While people keep hyping the ideas of BlackBerry killers or iPhone killers, this is not necessary for a success in the industry in the least. However, what matter is...will the Pre be shown to be at least sufficient to get people looking at Palm and trusting in Palm again? This will happen and is happening.

[jespin21]

You fail to mention any type of relevant information that makes the Pre a great phone and focus only on how the iPhone is just "so much better"

I have no further comments
Message was edited by: smax013 - no personal attacks please

[niboned]

Once again, due to knee-jerk fanboy-ism, most of you are completely missing the point. It's not about Pre vs. iPhone: it's about the Pre being too little and too late to the market. He is absolutely right in all respects. The Pre will have modest success and limp along. It has nothing to do with Blackberry or iPhone or Android being better, it has to do with the fact that they have overwhelming marketshare and/or mindshare and the Pre does not bring enough to the table to overcome that. If you want proof, just look at the specs and wait a week or two for actual user reviews to come out rather than specultate.

[KaptainKirk]

David apparently did little homework to determine the market Palm is after. There is still 80% of the market not using smart phones. Many want a physical keyboard and multitasking. The $99 iPhone has a much slower processor and runs on AT&T. For many like me, AT&T has poor coverage in my area. Palm is not after gamers or music lovers. They want people who need their contacts and calendars combined and synced. PC World should pull this article for the sheer B.S. it is based on.

[IcantCu]

Guys, being angry isn't going to help.
Try this instead:
"Granted having AT&T as sole carrier has become a ball-and-chain for Apple of late, but anyone who buys a $199 Pre over a $99 iPhone 3G is seeing something that has quite eluded me."
Sprint
Palm Pre $199
2yr service plan at $69/month
450 min/month
free nights & weekends
unlimited data
unlimited text
GPS
AT&T
iPhone 3G $99
2yr service plan at $99/month
450 min/month
free nights & weekends
unlimited data
unlimited text
GPS
Savings over two years for selecting Palm over Apple: $620.
Does this continue to elude you?

[Froppy]

A much better article is here:

http://arstechnica.c...erry-killer.ars

This writer did some research, used the device and understands the market slightly better.

[andrewspriggs]

re: niboned



Actually, no. By this new calculation, the pre is not too little nor too late. In fact, the Pre is enough or more than enough. The Pre will establish itself as a premier phone for Sprint and will be the envy of other carriers (Verizon's people seem to want it so bad that they publicly announce that they are going to get it as soon as possible, if Hesse at Sprint doesn't have anything to do with it)...Again, you act as if too many slices of the pie have already been taken and there's nowhere left...but this is unsound.

[swagg]

niboned wrote:Once again, due to knee-jerk fanboy-ism, most of you are completely missing the point. It's not about Pre vs. iPhone: it's about the Pre being too little and too late to the market. He is absolutely right in all respects. The Pre will have modest success and limp along. It has nothing to do with Blackberry or iPhone or Android being better, it has to do with the fact that they have overwhelming marketshare and/or mindshare and the Pre does not bring enough to the table to overcome that. If you want proof, just look at the specs and wait a week or two for actual user reviews to come out rather than specultate.

okay, well back it up with numbers and facts, and dont compare it to the iPhone if it isnt a comparison... Go re read the post..

[bigal55]

It's not what's "better" but what it's used for. Different folks have different uses. The Pre sounds great but I have had bad experiences with Sprint billing and customer service (AT&T has spotty coverage, though). My wife prefers her small Samsung phone. I like the iPhone (3G) for the apps and Internet ease of use. My best friend is sold on the Blackberry because it's used in his company and he likes a physical keyboard. Choice is what it's all about...

[niboned]

@IcantCu: If your main concern is price over value/features then you are correct. A Kia will get me to work just as well as a BMW. But a large segment of the market wants the BMW and the percieved value of the Pre may not be enough to bring customers in.

@Froppy: Why, because you agreee with it?

[lani]

also with sprint, adding on a new line (including unl data, texting, shared minutes) is 19.99/month each line. is that the cheapest of all major US carriers?

[JetpackJesus]

"...but anyone who buys a $199 Pre over a $99 iPhone 3G is seeing something that has quite eluded me."
-Evidently you are blind.
Let's start with the above. First, the $99 iPhone is inferior to the Pre. It is the 3GS that is a comparable phone technologically and feature-wise (has at least double the memory, though). There, you are starting at the same price point, but I'll stick with your $99 3G argument.
Second, you raise this point in your terrible piece, "The best hope for Pre, in the short term, is for Sprint to take such decisive pricing action on its service contracts that it makes Verizon and AT&T look hideously overpriced. How likely is that?"
-Answer: Extremely, in that Sprint already makes AT&T look hideously overpriced.
The AT&T Unlimited Voice, Data, Messaging Plan: $150/month (99 for voice, 30 for data, 20 for messaging).
Sprint Unlimited Voice, Data, and messaging: $99 for a network that seems to consistently beat AT&T in coverage and reliability.
Going back to your first point, Coursey - in just two months I have already recouped the extra $100 I spent on the technologically superior Pre. After that, I'm saving $50 a month for the next 22 months by not purchasing that iPhone for $99. I sure was insane for spending $100 more when I grabbed that Pre wasn't I, Dave?
But what if you don't need unlimited minutes (I fall into this group)? You can get 450 minutes with everything else unlimited for 69.99. The same plan on AT&T costs 89.99 per month. If you want 900 minutes, you pay $89.99 (what did that get me on AT&T again?) on Sprint. On AT&T you pay $109 for 900 minutes. For the intellectually challenged among us (re: David Coursey), I'll point out that is more than the everything unlimited plan from Sprint.
The other thing Palm (not Sprint) has in its favor is the short exclusivity. The Pre will be on Verizon in 6 months (mainly why I didn't bother comparing their plan rates above), greatly expanding the available user base. This is why the developers aren't going to shy away from the Pre, as you suggest. It may not raise Sprint from their current third place position, but when the Pre can be had on both Sprint and Verizon it will sell a lot more units. Developers will definitely want to tap that market.
Sorry for how long this post was, but the sheer idiocy in the article just blew my mind.

[andrewspriggs]

re niboned: The problem is, as reviewers and consumers both nearly universally recognize, the Pre goes head to head rather well with both market competitors on features well. You can't say it's some trash phone without causing controversy because, quite frankly, to say that the phones are of different classes is controversial. If we were talking Instinct, then I could see your point. If we were talking BB Storm (in comparison to iPhone), I could see your point. But in the case of the Pre, you can at best lament over how Palm emphasized some things and de-emphasized others, so some areas are more developed than others, but this is the same you could say for a BlackBerry or for an iPhone. Regardless, lamentations over these emphases recognize personal preference, and not the objective superiority or inferiority of the phone. I think it's clear that the Pre has value, is perceived as having value, and more important, potential.