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The year is 2009. Technology is for the enablement of humans.
Thanks to the Planetary humanitarian efforts of GNU/Linux technologists, paying any type of "Windows Tax" is no longer necessary. GNU/Linux is the superior product that you need to get your hands on.
John Dvorak says "Microsoft's business model is done", and it's true. There's simply no longer a reason to play "stupid consumer" by purchasing something that you can get a better version of for free.
This is the FREEDOM of GNU/Linux, and for some reason, I suspect a monetary one, the tech-media doesn't want to tell you about it.
For $299, you can purchase a Dell Laptop (not netbook), with all the bells and whistles, and preloaded with Ubuntu GNU/Linux. Get your Freedom on, Google this "$299 Dell Ubuntu Linux Laptop computer (not a netbook)".
GNU/Linux is not only an Operating System, it's a powerful philosophy that provides you with thousands of software titles that you can use/modify/share for FREE - it's a gift from the world of computer science, to humans everywhere.
Humans Enabled, that's what technology is for.
Shannon VanWagner
humans-enabled.com
Six Editions of Windows 7: What's With All the Whining?
#41
ShannonVanWagner 
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 11:57 AM
MultiQuote
#42
yuki333
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:17 PM
Now I love linux as much as the next person, I think it's great and I
use it as one of my boots. But people have to realize that it still
does have it's limitations for some people and others are just too
afraid to give it a try. It's true that "windows" isn't necessary, but
if you're a hardcore gamer windows is the way to go. Or if you're
someone like my grandmother who can barely boot up a computer it's also
for you. Many people are afraid of the word linux and many also won't
bother with it because there will be the occasional bug that they might
have to fix or work around, or they need IE and are too afraid to use
WINE.
There's people here putting down windows, but honestly, it's not that bad. Evildave
himself calls it "crippled trial-ware" but the only limitations on the
intro version of windows 7 is hardware components. Yes, it's annoying,
but it's hardly a limitation. The rest just give you options to pick
from if you need them. If you want to take about limitation, talk
about Apple, it's the one with a single version where you do what they
let you do. Microsoft gives plenty of free options to consumers such
as Visual studio C Express, one of the best damn C compilers out
there. Or the new free antivirus they're putting out. Am I saying
it'll be good, no, but it's free, or you could get avast for free, or
AVG for free. The only thing you have to technically pay for is the OS
itself which will come free with the pc you buy if you don't build your
own like 95% of americans.
The point is, if you don't like windows, that's fine, no one is making you
use it. They're hardly even a monopoly, there's other choices out
there, but if people choose not to use them, is that their fault? You
can call me a MS fanboy if you want, I don't care. The people here seem to hate microsoft as a company and not as an OS, but we have a thing called Capitalism and if you don't like what they're doing, deal with it, we have freedom.
use it as one of my boots. But people have to realize that it still
does have it's limitations for some people and others are just too
afraid to give it a try. It's true that "windows" isn't necessary, but
if you're a hardcore gamer windows is the way to go. Or if you're
someone like my grandmother who can barely boot up a computer it's also
for you. Many people are afraid of the word linux and many also won't
bother with it because there will be the occasional bug that they might
have to fix or work around, or they need IE and are too afraid to use
WINE.
There's people here putting down windows, but honestly, it's not that bad. Evildave
himself calls it "crippled trial-ware" but the only limitations on the
intro version of windows 7 is hardware components. Yes, it's annoying,
but it's hardly a limitation. The rest just give you options to pick
from if you need them. If you want to take about limitation, talk
about Apple, it's the one with a single version where you do what they
let you do. Microsoft gives plenty of free options to consumers such
as Visual studio C Express, one of the best damn C compilers out
there. Or the new free antivirus they're putting out. Am I saying
it'll be good, no, but it's free, or you could get avast for free, or
AVG for free. The only thing you have to technically pay for is the OS
itself which will come free with the pc you buy if you don't build your
own like 95% of americans.
The point is, if you don't like windows, that's fine, no one is making you
use it. They're hardly even a monopoly, there's other choices out
there, but if people choose not to use them, is that their fault? You
can call me a MS fanboy if you want, I don't care. The people here seem to hate microsoft as a company and not as an OS, but we have a thing called Capitalism and if you don't like what they're doing, deal with it, we have freedom.
#43
quackadilly
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:21 PM
"I thought i was the only
one feels the same no?. You know at this point one would think that
maybe we should ignore people like him. Never have i seen so much
hatred towards a company. In any case as for me i have no problems with
microsoft products and what i fail to see is what trialware software??.
I have yet to see that on my pc. Oh thats right i don't deal with the
middle man as i only buy OEM Copy of windows directly off Newegg. This
is why i have stop paying attention to this guy."
-----
Start a poll.....we'll see what the general public thinks.....
Anyways.... have absolutely no problem with MS either. They make great software solutions. All the haters are just mad because MS can make far superior software than they can, or they're hippies and believe that spending 50% more will make you special.....just like healthy food.....screw that, I'll take my half pound cheeseburger and enjoy life over sticking to greens and low fat any day.
Dave:
Obviously you don't like MS....but quit being such a troll about it. Just because you don't like them doesn't make you right about everything......you need a bigger sock so you can expand your horizons.....
one feels the same no?. You know at this point one would think that
maybe we should ignore people like him. Never have i seen so much
hatred towards a company. In any case as for me i have no problems with
microsoft products and what i fail to see is what trialware software??.
I have yet to see that on my pc. Oh thats right i don't deal with the
middle man as i only buy OEM Copy of windows directly off Newegg. This
is why i have stop paying attention to this guy."
-----
Start a poll.....we'll see what the general public thinks.....
Anyways.... have absolutely no problem with MS either. They make great software solutions. All the haters are just mad because MS can make far superior software than they can, or they're hippies and believe that spending 50% more will make you special.....just like healthy food.....screw that, I'll take my half pound cheeseburger and enjoy life over sticking to greens and low fat any day.
Dave:
Obviously you don't like MS....but quit being such a troll about it. Just because you don't like them doesn't make you right about everything......you need a bigger sock so you can expand your horizons.....
#44
Evildave
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:21 PM
Quote
You can call me a MS fanboy if you want, I don't care.
Nah, I'd call ya a Microsoft online reputation management response.
"I love Linux, but windoze is A-OK!"
Yeah, realistic acting skills there, buddy.
"I love freedom, but fascists run the trains on time..."
#45
Grr8008
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:28 PM
Evildave said:
> You can call me a MS fanboy if you want, I don't care.
Nah, I'd call ya a Microsoft online reputation management response.
"I love Linux, but windoze is A-OK!"
Yeah, realistic acting skills there, buddy.
"I love freedom, but fascists run the trains on time..."
Nah, I'd call ya a Microsoft online reputation management response.
"I love Linux, but windoze is A-OK!"
Yeah, realistic acting skills there, buddy.
"I love freedom, but fascists run the trains on time..."
Well you can say that all you want but I agree him. I love linux, but I still love Windows too.
#46
yuki333
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:39 PM
It seems you don't understand the function of quotations, they're take something word for word, not to twist the words around to attack me. The only reason you attacked me is cause you couldn't seem to come up with a valid arguement against mine, or if you could, you didn't post it for who knows why. I don't see why I can't have my own opinon, but you seem to feel like I should share the same view as you. Which is facism, not your poor analogy of it. If windows actually was facist, none of us would be allowed to post about it here. And to clarify, I have no affiliation with microsoft or am i an actor, I'm just a computer user who uses many OSs depending on my needs. Find me a way to run all my games flawlessly on linux and maybe it would become my one and only.
#48
yuki333
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:52 PM
You're right, you are a troll. Trolls just use ad hominem instead of giving a counter-arguement. Which is why you'll never be able to prove I work for microsoft, cause the burden of proof is on you. But trolls are like idiots, and you should never argue with an idiot cause they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their years of experience.
Good Day
Good Day
#49
rgreen4
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:33 PM
Gentlemen: settle down. Let's not get too personal.
The topic at hand is a discussion of the six versions of Windows 7. If you have a post to make on that topic, then by all means do. If you want to say something about another topic, then please find an appropriate thread.
EvilDave - I think the other members in this discussion have made it clear that they have had enough of your attitude. So have many other members. You made the point in other posts that you do not treat your customers the way you do the members of this community, so one wonders why. If you want to make a civil comment on a discussion, please do. If you cannot be civil, perhaps you should find somewhere you are more comfortable, because it is evident that you are not comfortable here.
You slam Windows and derisively call Microsoft various hateful names, which is your right in a free society, but you should not be surprised when other members call you down on it when they have had enough.
If this thread does not settle down it will be locked.
The topic at hand is a discussion of the six versions of Windows 7. If you have a post to make on that topic, then by all means do. If you want to say something about another topic, then please find an appropriate thread.
EvilDave - I think the other members in this discussion have made it clear that they have had enough of your attitude. So have many other members. You made the point in other posts that you do not treat your customers the way you do the members of this community, so one wonders why. If you want to make a civil comment on a discussion, please do. If you cannot be civil, perhaps you should find somewhere you are more comfortable, because it is evident that you are not comfortable here.
You slam Windows and derisively call Microsoft various hateful names, which is your right in a free society, but you should not be surprised when other members call you down on it when they have had enough.
If this thread does not settle down it will be locked.
#50
quackadilly
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:35 PM
Thank you rgreen4.
That needed to be said.
That needed to be said.
#51
ivorycruncher
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:01 PM
Thanks rgreen4, for bringing this down to earth a bit.
Back on topic, I will say this. I never thought I'd see the day when people whine and complain about having too much choice. For as long as I can remember, the people having been crying about the right to have freedom of choice. Then when Microsoft tries to do that, you complain about having to make the choice? Honestly people, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Let me put this in perspective. When you go to a car dealership to pick out a new car, how would you feel if they only had a single model to choose from? Sure, each one might be customizable to a point, but they would all look virtually the same, and all cost the same amount. I can think of plenty of people who would have a fit if such a choice was removed from them. Plus, iIf the car was made affordable for all, it would be built so small and cheaply that it wouldn't be capable of doing the work the majority of the people would need it to do. And if the single vehicle was a big truck with a huge cab and box, which could do just about everything, hardly anybody would be able to afford the sticker price, let alone the fuel and maintenance costs, and the majority of the people would be paying for "features" that they never use or get any benefit from.
That same analogy could be applied to just about anything: restaurants with only one item on the menu, paint stores with just one color of paint, grocery stores with one kind of cereal, an electronics store with only one size of TV for sale...need I go on? The people have asked for more choices, and the people have now been given more choices. I'm personally thankful that we are allowed to only pay for the features we use, because we can save money by doing so. I seriously wonder how many people out there actually choose to complain about having too many choices when it actually benefits them, especially in this economy. If you're too lazy to be bothered with learning about your options and making an informed decision, then that's your problem, nobody else's.
And yes, Apple's Mac OS X and Linux are two more choices for consumers. They work great for many people, and just because they personally hold no benefit for me whatsoever doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and badmouth them. If they were really worthy of such scorn, they would be so horrible that nobody would use them in the first place. In the end, it's up to individuals to determine which solution works best for them. For those that feel the need to shove their opinions onto others, a few words of wisdom: you'll gain a lot more ground (and respect) if you preach about what makes your product so good, instead of what makes your competition so bad. I honestly feel really bad for some of the employees of Microsoft, because they work very hard to create a great product that's used by millions of people around the world, all while being the target of an unending torrent of undeserved hate speech. I can only hope that they use that as motivation for creating better and better products.
Back on topic, I will say this. I never thought I'd see the day when people whine and complain about having too much choice. For as long as I can remember, the people having been crying about the right to have freedom of choice. Then when Microsoft tries to do that, you complain about having to make the choice? Honestly people, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Let me put this in perspective. When you go to a car dealership to pick out a new car, how would you feel if they only had a single model to choose from? Sure, each one might be customizable to a point, but they would all look virtually the same, and all cost the same amount. I can think of plenty of people who would have a fit if such a choice was removed from them. Plus, iIf the car was made affordable for all, it would be built so small and cheaply that it wouldn't be capable of doing the work the majority of the people would need it to do. And if the single vehicle was a big truck with a huge cab and box, which could do just about everything, hardly anybody would be able to afford the sticker price, let alone the fuel and maintenance costs, and the majority of the people would be paying for "features" that they never use or get any benefit from.
That same analogy could be applied to just about anything: restaurants with only one item on the menu, paint stores with just one color of paint, grocery stores with one kind of cereal, an electronics store with only one size of TV for sale...need I go on? The people have asked for more choices, and the people have now been given more choices. I'm personally thankful that we are allowed to only pay for the features we use, because we can save money by doing so. I seriously wonder how many people out there actually choose to complain about having too many choices when it actually benefits them, especially in this economy. If you're too lazy to be bothered with learning about your options and making an informed decision, then that's your problem, nobody else's.
And yes, Apple's Mac OS X and Linux are two more choices for consumers. They work great for many people, and just because they personally hold no benefit for me whatsoever doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and badmouth them. If they were really worthy of such scorn, they would be so horrible that nobody would use them in the first place. In the end, it's up to individuals to determine which solution works best for them. For those that feel the need to shove their opinions onto others, a few words of wisdom: you'll gain a lot more ground (and respect) if you preach about what makes your product so good, instead of what makes your competition so bad. I honestly feel really bad for some of the employees of Microsoft, because they work very hard to create a great product that's used by millions of people around the world, all while being the target of an unending torrent of undeserved hate speech. I can only hope that they use that as motivation for creating better and better products.
#53
ShannonVanWagner
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:06 AM
"Now I love linux as much as the next person"
Not sure you've sold me on this one... Especially since you haven't given any details about just how ready GNU/Linux is for the Desktop. For example, Dell offers Ubuntu on a version of EVERY one of its Netbooks and sells notebooks and desktops preloaded as well. Don't belive me? Go here and click "continue" to see any of the Dell Mini offerings (and see for yourself the "Customize with Ubuntu" option): http://www.dell.com/...en&s=dhs&~ck=mn or you can even go here:http://www.dell.com/...en&s=dhs&~ck=mn If you want the HP version of Linux, just google the HP Mi.
"If you're a hardcore gamer windows is the way to go."
I'll partially concede to this, but only for the "hardcore" gamers part, and only for a VERY limited time(check back soon)... That being said, this certainly doesn't mean that games aren't available for GNU/Linux. Between the long list of free games that are available, games that can be run in WINE, and online games - there are plenty of games to keep any typical gamer busy playing games for a long time. Checkout this link for more Linux games information - you're likely to be surprised at what's available: http://en.wikipedia....i/Linux_gaming] Want to see the games working for yourself? Checkout this link: [http://digg.com/d1ejez]
"Or if you're someone like my grandmother who can barely boot up a computer it's also(assuming you were trying to say "not") for you."
This couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, setting up your grandparents with the VIRUS-FREE, Ultra-Safe, Absolutely FREE(yes legally), GNU/Linux... is the best thing you could ever do for a loved one in terms of helping them out with technology. I setup a neighbor of mine (who's an older person) and she couldn't be happier. See this link for information on how I setup my neighbor with a FREE computer and FREE Internet access: [http://www.humans-enabled.com/2009/04/my-example-of-pci-56k-dial-up-modem.html]
"Many people are afraid of the word linux"
Are you kidding me? Many people are afraid of the word "Vista" not Linux. Besides, there are many names for GNU/Linux and what it provides, like Google for instance, or Palm Pre, or Amazon, or a myriad of techno-gadgets, the list Linux uses goes on and on and on. So many people are using Linux(yes often times unknowingly) that the real question is Who is NOT using Linux!! Read more about "Why Linux" here: [http://system76.com/articles.php?tPath=2]
"...and many also won't bother with it because there will be the occasional bug that they might have to fix or work around, or they need IE and are too afraid to use WINE."OMG - I'm laughing so hard I'm about to fall out of my chair!! People need IE? You're joking right? Is this why so many people are using Mozilla Firefox these days? Is this why I'm constantly hearing web developers groan, because they have to program 2 versions of their web apps - 1 for Open Stds Compatible web browsers, and 1 for IE. Actually what you should say is that people DON'T need to have IE.. because it has the side effect of trying to destroy OPEN WEB STANDARDS!! Linux is also more advanced in terms of evolution than other OSes. For example, Linux is the first OS to support USB 3 - which is much faster than current USB! See here for more information: [http://www.programmica.info/2009/06/linux-first-to-support-usb-3.html] Ubuntu and other Distros come out with a new release of their GNU/Linux software about every six months... not 5 years like Vista.
If you're truly the technologist that you put out to be, you're not doing anyone any favors by saying they can't benefit from the FREEDOM of GNU/Linux. Seriously, telling people they are too dumb to handle anything but Windows is just not helping humanity with technology.
Freedom. Get yours now!! Go to.... [http://getgnulinux.org
Not sure you've sold me on this one... Especially since you haven't given any details about just how ready GNU/Linux is for the Desktop. For example, Dell offers Ubuntu on a version of EVERY one of its Netbooks and sells notebooks and desktops preloaded as well. Don't belive me? Go here and click "continue" to see any of the Dell Mini offerings (and see for yourself the "Customize with Ubuntu" option): http://www.dell.com/...en&s=dhs&~ck=mn or you can even go here:http://www.dell.com/...en&s=dhs&~ck=mn If you want the HP version of Linux, just google the HP Mi.
"If you're a hardcore gamer windows is the way to go."
I'll partially concede to this, but only for the "hardcore" gamers part, and only for a VERY limited time(check back soon)... That being said, this certainly doesn't mean that games aren't available for GNU/Linux. Between the long list of free games that are available, games that can be run in WINE, and online games - there are plenty of games to keep any typical gamer busy playing games for a long time. Checkout this link for more Linux games information - you're likely to be surprised at what's available: http://en.wikipedia....i/Linux_gaming] Want to see the games working for yourself? Checkout this link: [http://digg.com/d1ejez]
"Or if you're someone like my grandmother who can barely boot up a computer it's also(assuming you were trying to say "not") for you."
This couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, setting up your grandparents with the VIRUS-FREE, Ultra-Safe, Absolutely FREE(yes legally), GNU/Linux... is the best thing you could ever do for a loved one in terms of helping them out with technology. I setup a neighbor of mine (who's an older person) and she couldn't be happier. See this link for information on how I setup my neighbor with a FREE computer and FREE Internet access: [http://www.humans-enabled.com/2009/04/my-example-of-pci-56k-dial-up-modem.html]
"Many people are afraid of the word linux"
Are you kidding me? Many people are afraid of the word "Vista" not Linux. Besides, there are many names for GNU/Linux and what it provides, like Google for instance, or Palm Pre, or Amazon, or a myriad of techno-gadgets, the list Linux uses goes on and on and on. So many people are using Linux(yes often times unknowingly) that the real question is Who is NOT using Linux!! Read more about "Why Linux" here: [http://system76.com/articles.php?tPath=2]
"...and many also won't bother with it because there will be the occasional bug that they might have to fix or work around, or they need IE and are too afraid to use WINE."OMG - I'm laughing so hard I'm about to fall out of my chair!! People need IE? You're joking right? Is this why so many people are using Mozilla Firefox these days? Is this why I'm constantly hearing web developers groan, because they have to program 2 versions of their web apps - 1 for Open Stds Compatible web browsers, and 1 for IE. Actually what you should say is that people DON'T need to have IE.. because it has the side effect of trying to destroy OPEN WEB STANDARDS!! Linux is also more advanced in terms of evolution than other OSes. For example, Linux is the first OS to support USB 3 - which is much faster than current USB! See here for more information: [http://www.programmica.info/2009/06/linux-first-to-support-usb-3.html] Ubuntu and other Distros come out with a new release of their GNU/Linux software about every six months... not 5 years like Vista.
If you're truly the technologist that you put out to be, you're not doing anyone any favors by saying they can't benefit from the FREEDOM of GNU/Linux. Seriously, telling people they are too dumb to handle anything but Windows is just not helping humanity with technology.
Freedom. Get yours now!! Go to.... [http://getgnulinux.org
#54
yuki333
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:57 AM
You seem to have misinterpreted what I have said, or I may have phrased it incorrectly, either way, I am not a linux naysayer at all, but I am not one to limit myself to a single operating system.
I'm not quite sure what me loving linux as much as the next person has anything to do with Dell selling it on their notebooks.
Linux does have some great games, I enjoy them, but there are too many that aren't compatable enough with WINE to make it viable, but the progress they're making is great.
I am familiar with linux though, I use ubuntu frequently, but I can safely say, it's not for everyone, not yet at least. And when I said people need IE, it's because some sites are only compatable with it, but since there is an IE plugin for firefox, I retract that statement.
I'm also not denying the use of linux on websites, I know that any server worth anything runs on linux. I'm not denying that it isn't advanced either, I know it is, but let's be honest, how good is USB 3.0 support when no hardware supports it. If I plug in my mp3 player, it's still only going to go at 2.0
All I'm saying is that some people just aren't ready for linux or may need more than just linux. Most people can agree that Apple is the way to go for multimedia tasks and Windows has it's advantge in certain areas, especially the entiprise area. I'm not trying to sell anyone linux or microsoft or solaris, or that really old car in my shed, I just see no reason why all 3 can't live in harmony, they seem to be doing fine right now. But as stated earlier, this thread is about why 6 versions of windows 7 isn't bad, so I will leave it as this.
I'm not quite sure what me loving linux as much as the next person has anything to do with Dell selling it on their notebooks.
Linux does have some great games, I enjoy them, but there are too many that aren't compatable enough with WINE to make it viable, but the progress they're making is great.
I am familiar with linux though, I use ubuntu frequently, but I can safely say, it's not for everyone, not yet at least. And when I said people need IE, it's because some sites are only compatable with it, but since there is an IE plugin for firefox, I retract that statement.
I'm also not denying the use of linux on websites, I know that any server worth anything runs on linux. I'm not denying that it isn't advanced either, I know it is, but let's be honest, how good is USB 3.0 support when no hardware supports it. If I plug in my mp3 player, it's still only going to go at 2.0
All I'm saying is that some people just aren't ready for linux or may need more than just linux. Most people can agree that Apple is the way to go for multimedia tasks and Windows has it's advantge in certain areas, especially the entiprise area. I'm not trying to sell anyone linux or microsoft or solaris, or that really old car in my shed, I just see no reason why all 3 can't live in harmony, they seem to be doing fine right now. But as stated earlier, this thread is about why 6 versions of windows 7 isn't bad, so I will leave it as this.
#55
BNAMack
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 02:21 AM
First, to stay on subject, I agree that whining over the number of Win7 versions is a waste of time and energy. I personally don't want to pay for more than I need.
now . . .
@shannonvonwagner - ok, Linux is pretty great, but giving it to my Grandma? Not on your life. (Not yet, anyway)
I keep at least one linux partition on my box. I program for a living and repair as a side gig. I'm known for being able to explain anything to anyone & everyone calls me for help first. I installed an Ubuntu distro on a friends computer who FUBAR'd their XP and lost the disc - and spent the next 2 months on the phone w/ them while we tracked down one mystery glitch after another. (and I'm not even going to count getting her graphics drivers installed and working correctly) It got bad enough that a weekly visit was set up so I could get my hands back on the machine and also to catch them up on the 100MB or more of updates that had happened over the previous week. (she lives in a rural area w/ 56k dial-up as only option)
On my own machine a little detective work actually breaks up my day and entertains my brain a little bit. But when supporting someone else on their machine it gets tiresome very quickly.
I really don't mean to put Linux down. It's a strong system and proves open source can work. BUT it's no more magical than any other OS. Each has strengths and weaknesses, without exception. Linux is weak when it comes to use by non-technical end-users, no matter how much sunshine you try to blow up our exhaust fans.
I'll use what is needed, whether MS, open source or Apple, but I'm not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
now . . .
@shannonvonwagner - ok, Linux is pretty great, but giving it to my Grandma? Not on your life. (Not yet, anyway)
I keep at least one linux partition on my box. I program for a living and repair as a side gig. I'm known for being able to explain anything to anyone & everyone calls me for help first. I installed an Ubuntu distro on a friends computer who FUBAR'd their XP and lost the disc - and spent the next 2 months on the phone w/ them while we tracked down one mystery glitch after another. (and I'm not even going to count getting her graphics drivers installed and working correctly) It got bad enough that a weekly visit was set up so I could get my hands back on the machine and also to catch them up on the 100MB or more of updates that had happened over the previous week. (she lives in a rural area w/ 56k dial-up as only option)
On my own machine a little detective work actually breaks up my day and entertains my brain a little bit. But when supporting someone else on their machine it gets tiresome very quickly.
I really don't mean to put Linux down. It's a strong system and proves open source can work. BUT it's no more magical than any other OS. Each has strengths and weaknesses, without exception. Linux is weak when it comes to use by non-technical end-users, no matter how much sunshine you try to blow up our exhaust fans.
I'll use what is needed, whether MS, open source or Apple, but I'm not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
#56
PoorBird
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 04:01 AM
Ah, so many words, so little time....thoughts:
1. Decent article...says about all that needs be said, at least for now.
2. Hire a guru. Gurus ain't cheap. We paid for ours
on a 4-year plan...its called tuition/fees/expenses at N.C. State.
3. Tell the guru what you WANT ...let him worry about the rest of it.
4. I seriously wonder about the fellow that builds his own boxes nowadays. Our guru says he can't do it a cheap as we can buy. Call Dell..or whoever...get your best deal...THEN turn the guru loose
upon it...save money AND time AND get what you need/want.
5. My last, best thought: Avoid the crowds, save gas, live simply... stay with with XPPro...live long and prosper.
1. Decent article...says about all that needs be said, at least for now.
2. Hire a guru. Gurus ain't cheap. We paid for ours
on a 4-year plan...its called tuition/fees/expenses at N.C. State.
3. Tell the guru what you WANT ...let him worry about the rest of it.
4. I seriously wonder about the fellow that builds his own boxes nowadays. Our guru says he can't do it a cheap as we can buy. Call Dell..or whoever...get your best deal...THEN turn the guru loose
upon it...save money AND time AND get what you need/want.
5. My last, best thought: Avoid the crowds, save gas, live simply... stay with with XPPro...live long and prosper.
#57
rgreen4
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- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 7,677
- Joined: 22-October 06
- Location:S. Georgia
Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:22 AM
PoorBird said:
Ah, so many words, so little time....thoughts:
4. I seriously wonder about the fellow that builds his own boxes nowadays. Our guru says he can't do it a cheap as we can buy. Call Dell..or whoever...get your best deal...THEN turn the guru loose
upon it...save money AND time AND get what you need/want.
4. I seriously wonder about the fellow that builds his own boxes nowadays. Our guru says he can't do it a cheap as we can buy. Call Dell..or whoever...get your best deal...THEN turn the guru loose
upon it...save money AND time AND get what you need/want.
For the most part that is true, if it is just the raw dollars that you are using to make the decision. However, once you get off the bargain basement machines, the custom built machines (if you do it yourself) provide you with a knowledge of what is in the machine, and a choice of components that is not available on a manufactured machine.
Compare the last two desktops I "bought", one from HP manufactured and delivered in a box and the other, delivered in many boxes and assembled by me. (First on in several years). The manufactured machine came with a "recovery" disc designed to return the machine to it's factory delivered condition or refresh the drivers that shipped with the machine. My built machine has an installation disc, so if a recovery were necessary I can try a "repair" without going all the way back. The manufactured machine had to have a great deal of "bloatware" in the form of trial and promo offers deleted from the machine before I could start installing the applications.
My "built" machine has a case of my choice, not the manufacturer. My "build" machine has the full range of options in the BIOS setup, not the "crippled" BIOS setup common on manufactured machines. In their defense, they do this so uninformed customers do not try to change to memory speed, or CPU multiplier just to see what would happen. In the end, my manufactured machine, an upper end constructed of mostly quality parts (no name wireless card, still in use, and weak special purchase graphics card since replaced were exceptions). On the built machine, the original Nvidia 8600GT video card has been bumped over to the manufactured machine when I got my 9800GT video card that physically is too big to go in the manufactured machine.
The advantage of the manufactured machine is that it comes assembled in the box with a warranty. The disadvantage is you don't have a lot of flexibility in designating the parts even with a custom order like mine was. The advantage of the manufactured machine is that you have the flexibility of almost infinite choice by the time you get to the end. The disadvantage is a sometime bewildering choice of parts starting with hundreds of cases, hundreds of motherboards, dozens of CPU chips, hundreds of memory modules, hundreds of hard drives and hundreds of video cards and hundreds of optical drives.
If you go with the cheapest option at every step, you can come close to the price of the bargain basement PC at the discount houses, but not quite. If you are in the mid to upper range you can beat them. I put together a machine with a faster CPU chip, more flexible MB with drivers readily available on the web as well as on the supplied disc, upper end memory, the same version of Vista Home Premium (both OEM editions), a much better graphics card, the same HD, equivalent DVD burner and a far more flexible and access friendly case for about $300 less than I paid for the manufactured machine. Which did come with a new mouse (on the self) and new keyboard (on the shelf as well) and a year of tech support.
I will agree that if you never work or modify your machines, and have no desire to do so, then the manufactured machines offer a good product. I do like my media center, but like it better now that the internals have been transplanted into a new more accessible case.
I'm not saying that everyone should build their own by any means. I am just trying to point out that there is more to building your own than just the price. After all that, I did build another machine, a bit lower end that was to be given to someone, but because of circumstances, it is still here. I now use it for a spare when someone loses a machine so they don't have to run right down and by what ever is on the shelf at the discount store. A lot of the exercise is also the pleasure of knowing that you put the machine together - as the ad says, when you fire up a machine you built for the first time and it boots - priceless. And over the years I have built more than a dozen. Will I ever buy a manufactured machine again - most likely. I don't hate them, nor do I thnk that everyone should.
#58
rgreen4
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:45 AM
No Dave. It's the entire hateful angry tone of your posts that virtually drip with venom. It's your entire attitute that comes across in your posts. And from the comments, I am not alone. When you are trying to explain something to someone about how to fix something, you posts are completely different. It's the Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde attitude that members don't like. You even had one post recently that had the mods laughing (the iprod) so you do have a sense of humor.
No, your posts do not violate the standards, Microsoft as well as other manufacturers can be derided and made fun of all day long, as you well understand. You also understand the line about actual members, as you don't cross it as well. What eveyone is trying to say is that your posts are many time unpleasant to read. The target of your recrimination never sees it, just the other members.
When I was a regular member and was reading a news discussion regarding MS or one of its products, and saw your avatar, I skipped over it. I think many of the regular members do. I now have to read most of the posts, and one of us has to read almost all, but I just take it with a grain of salt and say it's just Dave. I just think you would get further with most of the members, if you would take out the venom and instead explain the problems with MS products as you see them.
Who know, a more pleasant Dave may find his blood pressure dropping as he exchanges ideas with other members in a more pleasant manner. Life is too short to be so angry all the time.
No, your posts do not violate the standards, Microsoft as well as other manufacturers can be derided and made fun of all day long, as you well understand. You also understand the line about actual members, as you don't cross it as well. What eveyone is trying to say is that your posts are many time unpleasant to read. The target of your recrimination never sees it, just the other members.
When I was a regular member and was reading a news discussion regarding MS or one of its products, and saw your avatar, I skipped over it. I think many of the regular members do. I now have to read most of the posts, and one of us has to read almost all, but I just take it with a grain of salt and say it's just Dave. I just think you would get further with most of the members, if you would take out the venom and instead explain the problems with MS products as you see them.
Who know, a more pleasant Dave may find his blood pressure dropping as he exchanges ideas with other members in a more pleasant manner. Life is too short to be so angry all the time.
#59
quackadilly
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 07:28 AM
The only thing keeping me from beating the bargain computers is the cost of the OS. Without it, I can pretty much match dell with their cheap computers. The last on I made was a mid-grade designed for home stuff and the occasional game.
About $500 after shipping (no OS):
1 x Thermaltake WingRS VG1000BNS Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
1 x Antec earthwatts EA380 380W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.0 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
1 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
1 x G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail
1 x AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor Model ADH4850DOBOX - Retail
1 x Logitech Deluxe 250 Black USB Standard Keyboard - OEM
1 x Sony Optiarc 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model AD-7220A - OEM
1 x Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
1 x Rosewill RFA-120-K 120mm Case Fan - Retail
1 x Logitech SBF-96 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Mouse - OEM
1 x ASUS M3A78-CM AM2/AM2 AMD 780V Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
1 x Hanns·G HB-191DPB Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail
Add $80 for Vista Home Basic or XP Home for $90......it's really not bad.
It's really about the customizability (real word?). The options are endless with acustom PC.
About $500 after shipping (no OS):
1 x Thermaltake WingRS VG1000BNS Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
1 x Antec earthwatts EA380 380W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.0 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
1 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
1 x G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail
1 x AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor Model ADH4850DOBOX - Retail
1 x Logitech Deluxe 250 Black USB Standard Keyboard - OEM
1 x Sony Optiarc 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model AD-7220A - OEM
1 x Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
1 x Rosewill RFA-120-K 120mm Case Fan - Retail
1 x Logitech SBF-96 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Mouse - OEM
1 x ASUS M3A78-CM AM2/AM2 AMD 780V Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
1 x Hanns·G HB-191DPB Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail
Add $80 for Vista Home Basic or XP Home for $90......it's really not bad.
It's really about the customizability (real word?). The options are endless with acustom PC.
#60
rgreen4
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 07:47 AM
I agree. Around the first of the year I got a call from the mother of a good friend. Their old PC had died. Apparently they had bought it in town years ago and they took it to that store (which still does service). They were kind enough to move their data onto a CD as the computer was not repairable. They only sell high end customized machines now, which is not the maket this couple on fixed income was in, so they went to Wally World and came home with a Dell slimline and were having a nightmare.
Working on the machine, several red flags popped up. There was already a user account on the machine when they set it up. But, I got her internet fixed (modem needed a reset) and I left, not disparraging their choice of machine or vendor. They called a few days later because they had tried to register the machine with Dell, but were unable to as it had already been registered. I quickly loaded Vista onto a HD placed in my loaner and went out to their house. I got the loaner all set up with their old monitor, keyboard speakers and trackball so they could package the Dell back up and return it. I think they had paid about $500 for the entire rig with a 19" WS monitor, and when we got through specing out the new machine with a 22" Samsung WS monitor it was $575. I had an upgrade package for Vista that I was not going to use and threw in a 320GB HD from my stash. They are tickled pink and really like the larger monitor. We got all of her old programs running except for MS Works, which I simply got them into Office 2007 Home and Student. She uses Office at her work and liked the new version better than the old MS Works.
Of course looking back, the monitor was the big thing. The 22" Samsung was a big improvement from the 19" Dell and contributed to the higher cost. I also showed her how to reset her DSL modem if it ever acts up again like that. The only place I really cut corners was the case. It is ok, but not one I would use because I swap out too much stuff in mine. For a case that you assemble, setup and forget, it works. It was a $30 case without a PSU, and I caught the Antec Basiq 500W on sale when I was ordering the components, so we got that for $39. That is another thing, if we plan and catch good stuff on sale, then we can really save money. It just takes longer.
Working on the machine, several red flags popped up. There was already a user account on the machine when they set it up. But, I got her internet fixed (modem needed a reset) and I left, not disparraging their choice of machine or vendor. They called a few days later because they had tried to register the machine with Dell, but were unable to as it had already been registered. I quickly loaded Vista onto a HD placed in my loaner and went out to their house. I got the loaner all set up with their old monitor, keyboard speakers and trackball so they could package the Dell back up and return it. I think they had paid about $500 for the entire rig with a 19" WS monitor, and when we got through specing out the new machine with a 22" Samsung WS monitor it was $575. I had an upgrade package for Vista that I was not going to use and threw in a 320GB HD from my stash. They are tickled pink and really like the larger monitor. We got all of her old programs running except for MS Works, which I simply got them into Office 2007 Home and Student. She uses Office at her work and liked the new version better than the old MS Works.
Of course looking back, the monitor was the big thing. The 22" Samsung was a big improvement from the 19" Dell and contributed to the higher cost. I also showed her how to reset her DSL modem if it ever acts up again like that. The only place I really cut corners was the case. It is ok, but not one I would use because I swap out too much stuff in mine. For a case that you assemble, setup and forget, it works. It was a $30 case without a PSU, and I caught the Antec Basiq 500W on sale when I was ordering the components, so we got that for $39. That is another thing, if we plan and catch good stuff on sale, then we can really save money. It just takes longer.
