[PoorBird]

Ah so, and I will not argue your points....I replaced our office desktop in late December, '07....and have to tell you, the box we retired was almost 8 years old...the last 6 of those years it ran 24/7... minus power outages and the like.....and that box WAS built by the guru.....over the years, it got upgrades, hardware and software..... I replaced with a Dell box with LCD (20") included, a new wireless router, external HD.... and the price was very good at the time, all less than $800, including tax.....I do NOT expect the Dell replacement to last anywhere near that long....but the fact remains that the new box is magnitudes faster with much more storage. You might surmise that I am not a "power user", and you would be correct. My needs are general office stuff.....wp, spread sheets, etc, and net surfing, emailing and the like....I do not NEED a supercomputer.... and I will hazzard a guess that at least 75% of computer owners actually have more than they need...I dunno..... and I definitely look at costs...we are not the fed, can't print our own money. At about 50% of the cost of new box vs. older one, I'm estimating I will spend about the same for two of the "new" types vs. the cost of guru-built...and get approximately 2-3 more years out of those dollars than I got on the custom-built......assuming my needs/wants change little or none. I fear tooooo many people nowadays are hyped into more than they need..... and I expect those days are fast coming to an end.... many people are finding that cheap, underpowered netbooks are the thing..... kinda want one of them for myself.... the aircard monthly charges are the stopper for me.

[obviocapitao]

use Linux - all versions are ultimate

[rgreen4]

I agree. The netbooks are appealing, but unless you spend a lot of time traveling or carrying around a laptop, I'm not sure of the return. My most recent laptop is an almost two year old HP 17" 7lb laptop that rarely leaves the living room. I use it in the evening responding to questions while watching TV. Maybe a little more than I need, but it has two HD bays and an included numeric keypad on the keyboard. As a retired Accountant, it is more comfortable to me than one without.

Guru could probably have built one for you as inexpensively as your manufactured machine, but then it would have taken his time. The key is how fast a processor and what bells and whistles do you want. Memory is almost a non decision now at current prices (4GB in two modules is $50 to $100). The most expensive component is the CPU/Motherboard combination based on speed and features on the MB. After that will generally be the Power Supply. This is an area where manufactured machines cut corners.

We had a recent post from a member about adding a graphics card to his machine. The problem is it has only a 300W power supply which was adequate for the machine as shipped with an integrated graphics chip. Adding the new card will mean an upgraded power supply. That same machine with a dedicated graphics card is shipped with a 350W Power Supply (I have a similar machine from the same mfg). I will not put less than a 500W in a build.

The only real criticism I have on manufactured machines is their tendency to load up the machines with all the promos, adds, download links and trial software. When I build a machine and set it up, it only has the trash can on the desktop. Of course it gets cluttered after that, but it's my clutter, not someone else's ads. On the business side those machines are shipped without the bloatware. But, they get paid to put the ads on which cuts the cost of the consumer machine a few dollars.

As I said, the big advantage of the manufactured machine is that everything is already in the box and covered by a warranty. Those of who build them, just prefer th fun of building our own. Sometimes we even take the guts out of a manufactured machine and put it in a new case - as I did recently as I wanted more access when I worked on the machine. Manufactured machines are designed to be assembled and shipped, and if all goes right, not be opened for years. That is good because it provides folks with good source for the product. Some people like to work on cars, some of us like to work on the computers. Thankfully we can all have what we need because of the diversity of the industry. It is actually easier to build machines now than it was in the '90's and the manufactured machines are far more diverse and much better as well.

[PoorBird]

On the "loaded up" purchased machines....oh yeah.... but I have been buying thru Dell's business side...... if one can do this, it beats the heck ouf their consumer side.....and there is less software gobbledegook to deal with..... that being said, first step has been to open the boxes, plug in everything, and format the HDD....further details are unnecessary. Our last such foray into the Dell world didn't even require that.....a laptop preloaded with XPPro at no additional charge.... admittedly, a 1-day deal onto which I jumped...fast... it was for me wife whose requirements are les than mine....that data transfer went quick, smooth, no reformat.... major coolness.... and as we were replacing an old Sony laptop - one very good machine, Dell or anybody else should build one that good nowadays..... pentium III, 368Mhz, 11 gig HDD...does that give u an idea of its age? - the new vostro lap is a relative speed demon...core 2 duo, 2 ghz., 3 gigs ram, 160 gb Hdd......no comparison to the old Sony, but I promise you the new will last nowhere near as long as that old boy. At the same time, my Gateway (yeah, I know) laptop got a new HDD and an added gig of ram and I felt like we had two new laps rather than just one..... incidentally, that Gateway laptop HDD was beginning to fail at a little less than 3 years....we installed a toshiba drive from Newegg that is more than twice the size,half the access time, and uses 50% the power of the original, at least according to the labeling. The new HDD, RAM, a cellphone wall charger, 2, 2-gig micro-SD cards for cell memory was $112, to the door. Newegg is a prime source! The guru uses them all the time.

By-the-by...the Gateway is the ONLY computer I have ever purchased "off the shelf".... all the others including the very first one over 20 years ago have been built from scratch or custom ordered from an independent shop or Dell. I know many folks don't care for Dell, but my experience has been good...I get as close as I can on the basic powertrain and we go from there. If I have to spend a little money on an upgrade, that's OK..... to date, major mods have been software, not hardware..... there is more than one way of skinning a cat..... the biggest drawback I see with the Dell stuff I buy is the soundcard.... but I have all our music on HDD now and the computer is plumbed to an entertainment center, so no real biggie. As I said before, I am no power user!

[rgreen4]

No, but you are certainly no novice either. You have all your ducks in a row, and know what you are doing.

[TheBigOldDog]

Having too many version just confuses customer most of who are barely computer literate. If MSFT and the system vendors want lots of confusion and unnecessary problems then they should produce lots of versions. If they want to keep it simple and have happy customers then they have to not have any more than 2 or 3. It's that simple and anybody who has to support Users knows it.

[rgreen4]

If you walk into the store you will only see two. Home Premium and Professional. If you neet to attach to a domain, then you use Professional, if you don't you use Home Premium. Simple. Two of the other four will only be available to manufacturers of PC's, one will only be available to large corporations as part of their subscription and Ultimate will most likely only be available through the Anytime Upgrade.

That's why this whole discussion is so ridiculous. Did you know that there were five versions of XP? Did you know that there were 8 versions of Vista? No, most people were only aware of two or three on each.

[ivorycruncher]

TheBigOldDog said:

Having too many version just confuses customer most of who are barely computer literate.

Apparently you didn't read my earlier post. Not knowing anything about computer is no excuse. I didn't know much of anything about HDTVs before I went to the store and started looking over a few dozen different models. I did the research, ran comparisons, read reviews, etc., and made an informed decision, knowing full well what I was buying. You should be glad that you are given the option of saving money, because I guarantee you that a single version of Windows would make the licensing cost go up for everybody, meaning you'll lose money. Besides, Microsoft has clearly listed all major feature differences between the versions, so it would take you all of 5 minutes to look the list over and decide which one works best for you.

Here, I'll make this easy for you. Buy Windows 7 Home Premium. There, end of story. Just so you don't have to pay 'the guru', I will tell you that Home Premium will be the perfect edition for the vast majority of home users. If at any point in the future you discover you need one of the features of Professional, all you do is punch your credit card number into Windows Anytime Upgrade, and the missing features will be instantly unlocked. Windows XP didn't have the luxury of Anytime Upgrade, so upgrading from Home to Pro was a tedious and time-consuming process, so be glad it's been made so easy for you.

[PoorBird]

I'll take the compliment! ...but its not as difficult as it may sound.... I am not that smart, but I still have some ability to exercise that which the good Lord above placed between me ears..... anyone can do that although it does seem that fewer are doing it these days. ...and one does need an ability to define "need" vs. "want"....

Our "basic" machines work very well for our needs.... we put some of our dollars into a LAN rather than burn all of it on the boxes themselves.... we use one printer for 3 computers, the LAN has its own UPS, separate from that of the office box...the laps have their own batteries, so no UPS for them....we have a hybrid wired/wireless LAN that works quite well for our NEEDS...and we run good antivirus software on all three boxes, wireless router is encrypted to each specific lap, office box is wired, as is printer..... we try to pay attention to the important stuff, not bells and whistles....we do a good bit of work from the laps via remote desktop on office box....all boxes run XPPro.... we are to the point in life that we just want to git 'r done, not fiddle with stuff .... point and shoot, if you will.....and are quite happy with the current set-up...we have little interest in the latest, greatest whamma-jamma doo-dad...... I am comforted by the fact that we have a fairly sophisticated SYSTEM with comparatively few dollars invested..... a system that works well for us..... biggest complaint I have with our system is the ISP.... we use Roadrunner, and as much as I dislike Timewarner Cable, RR has worked very well for the almost 9 years we have had it.....EXCEPT, our node is grid-powered,when power goes out, so does RR.... to most this would not matter, but we have a stand-by power system, so I'm sitting here all dressed up with no place to go..... drives me crazy.... we will likely switch to DSL sooner than later and that should eliminate the problem except in very prolonged power outages.. and at the same time, we will go to satellite TV.... but changing the whole "system" -cable and ISP- over is something I dread!!!

[wrathforger]

DAMN RIGHT!

[Azazel]

Who cares what the different editions are going to be called?! You get the idea right? This article's headline is for you. Lol, finally an article that calls out all the whining members of this site. I NEVER post here simply because all people do is complain and cry about stuff that's not even the topic.

[jeffwindowsteam]

HERE is an explanation of the versions from the Windows 7 Team blog worth looking at. It hasn't been updated to include the change to Starter Edition (no more 3 app limit), but still does a good job explaining the reason for having all the versions that will be distributed. I hope this cuts down on whining and increases understanding :)

[WinTard]

I would only consider Windows 7 Ultimate x64 for home, and Windows 7 Professional x64 at work. Simple eh?

Are two versions too complicated?

Costs? Don't gimme BS about something that will cost around $200 (OEM brand-new) or $50 as an upgrade. Something that will be as critical as your OS for at least the next 3 years or so. Working out to a mere $0.18 per day for the next 3 years (24x7x365) x 3 ? ?? ???? ?:|

Whiners are cheapskates!

~~~~~~~~~~
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
~ Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519, Italian Painter and Sculptor

He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
~ Benjamin Franklin, 1706-1790, American Scientist/Publisher/Diplomat

If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain.
~ Maya Angelou

[marko386]

To all who think this is something to worry about: Get a life. Worry about yourself. You will be able to understand how to get what you want so why whine that you have "too many choices". All this unproductive criticism of a nonissue is foolish. You are not businessmen, don't understand business, and what you are whining about doesn't matter. Take care of your own side of the street. Where is the love? I for one am glad to have choices, a soundproof front door (can't hear u), and an off button --goodnight!

[Evildave]

Still... HATEFUL? REALLY, REALLY????

I guess it's according to which side of it you're on.

If you feel the need to defend your favorite abusive monopoly in the face of overwhelming evidence that they're a malignant influence on the industry, get to it.

[quackadilly]

Really, we're all on the side of:



You have nothing positive to contribute and you continually trach talk MS and anyone that disagree's with you. You state nothing of fact, everything is merely your opinion.







Just be cool and quit insulting everyone and their opinions. You'll be hated much less......

[Evildave]

Well, why bother? I used to do that, but people who defend 'The Micro$uck Way' ignore all facts, anyway. Like merry little lemmings stampeding into the sea.

I mean, sure, you don't wanna hear that Microsoft is an abusive monopoly, that the U.S. federal court and court of appeals has found them to be a monopoly, and even split them up and forbade the pieces to cooperate, because they'd just crush everything and everyone in their path to world domination. Chopped 'em up like a hydra and more heads keep growing back.

Microsoft's CEO and his cronies thought they were untouchable. Their pompous display of disrespect of the law earned them no friends. Their shameless and relentless astroturfing leading up to (and during) the trial brought more district attorneys into the fight against them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnitedStatesv._Microsoft
http://www.usdoj.gov...es/ms_index.htm

And Bill Gates is a lying weasel, too.

Quote

Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his deposition.[2] He argued over the definitions of words such as "compete", "concerned", "ask", and "we".[3] BusinessWeek reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge had to chuckle. Worse, many of the technology chief's denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received."[4] Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied the allegations.[5]

http://cyber.law.har...sdoj/trial.html
http://video.google....-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

Funny how old Billy Boy sounds just like Bill Clinton talking about his time spent with Monica Lewinski. "Define 'is'".

What's so hard about this concept?

Just admit they're an abusive monopoly as they have been found to be in multiple courts, in multiple nations.

They can keep appealing until doomsday in every nation they have been ruled against, like a rapist who doesn't like prison, but in the meantime they're still buggering the public all they can.

[yuki333]

What does being a monoply have to do with quality of software, by your logic none of us should use Intel hardware cause they were slapped with an even bigger antitrust fine than Microsoft. I'm pretty sure Intel paying companies to not use AMD is worse than what microsoft has done, but does that make their products bad? No. Google someday soon could also be slapped with an antitrust case, but I'll still continue using them. Odds are everyone uses at least one company that has had an antitrust against them, it's just the goverment attempting to regulate, but has nothing to do with quality.

[quackadilly]

Ok, fine.....MS is an abusive monopoly....



But that doesn't stop them from putting out good products. Why do you think they have that huge marketshare in the first place? Because people use their products. They all started from nothing and Microsoft came out on top.....way on top.



Tell me again how Microsoft is losing.

[rgreen4]

You very conveniently left out a few relevant quotes from the Wiki document:

Quote

The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Judge Jackson's rulings against Microsoft. This was partly because the Appellate court had adopted a "drastically altered scope of liability" under which the Remedies could be taken, and also partly due to the embargoed interviews Judge Jackson had given to the news media while he was still hearing the case, in violation of the Code of Conduct for US Judges. Judge Jackson did not attend the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals hearing, in which the appeals court judges accused him of unethical conduct and determined he should have recused himself from the case.

>However, the appeals court did not overturn the findings of fact. The D.C. Circuit remanded the case for consideration of a proper remedy under a more limited scope of liability. Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly was chosen to hear the case.

Not only was the remedy stricken, but when the case was remanded, Jackson was not permitted to hear it, a new Judge was chosen, quite a rebuke to the Judge. No the finding of fact was not altered, but the DOJ then simply went after a dollar penalty (always the dollar) so NO action was ever undertake to break Microsoft up.

Those who go back to the early days of Micro Computers when every machine had a separate OS and different versions of the software because of it, are actually thankful that we have benefited from the presence of Microsoft. The size of Microsoft has actually had the effect of lowering our costs, not increasing them. Even in the early days of IBM compatibles, you could not take a Microsoft PC-DOS disc from an IBM PC and boot any of the clones, but one - Compaq. You could not run the BasicA that came with PC-DOS on any machine other than IBM. But you could run the version of BasicA that came with Compaq on the IBM. The clones all ran MS-DOS and GWBasic, and if you wrote a Basic program sometimes it would run in one, but not the other.