[ShannonVanWagner]

Ubuntu GNU/Linux is very easy to use, customize, and update. This is a
very nimble operating system, which is perfect for the netbook.
As said before, there are many customisations available for the GUI. To
see some, simply google "themes for jaunty" and then click the first
link result.
As for the updates process, it's not hard because all you do is click,
enter your password, and the updates download and install - and in most
cases it's not even necessary to reboot after the updates. The real
difference between Windows and Linux in terms of the updates is Linux
updates all of your package-manager installed applications, whereas
Windows only updates itself.
The Linux way of updating is actually better because a.)the updates
come out as soon as they are available(no patch tuesday), and b.) the
updates include security fixes for BOTH the operating system and the
installed applications. In windows, only windows gets the auto-updates,
whereas applications have to update themselves -- this leads to all
kinds of clutter in your taskbar and startup process because the apps
have to include their own mechanism for update.
Also, get this... you will never have to worry about your machine being
turned off remotely for lapsing your "activation" period by MSFT if
you are using GNU/Linux. In fact, if ever you experience a problem
while you are using GNU/Linux, you can be sure of one thing.... your
problem has NOTHING to do with "anti-piracy" mechanisms, DRM, invalid
license keys, or "Activation" of the operating system. Also, since
GNU/Linux is open source - it's actually easier to pinpoint problems
and get help with them from the GNU/Linux community.
The GNU/Linux way is the way to go. You will not believe the freedom
you have been missing once you switch over. You will also not believe
how much FREE(legally of course) software becomes available to you via
a click of the mouse and the pkg mgr (estimated at $10.8 Billion
dollars worth).
Take some time and look at a few of these sites to see what I'm talking about:
getgnulinux.org
ubuntuguide.org
ubuntuforums.org

I've setup Children, Elderly People, Longtime MS-Users, people in faraway places, and others with this awesome operating system, and in all cases the people have had no problem getting acustomed to GNU/Linux.

If you need any help at all, please contact me - I'd be glad to help...
same as many other members of the GNU/Linux community out there.
GNU/Linux is the gift of Freedom, and it's all yours. It's time to get the most out of computer systems by using this magnificent system.
humans enabled - that's what technology is for.

[yuki333]

ShannonVanWager,

I don't think anyone here is saying linux is a bad thing, I'm sure all the people here who have used it enjoy it, but this thread is about the Six editions of windows 7 and why it's not all bad, if you want to advertize how awesome linux is, make a blog, but don't post about it on a thread that has no relevance to it.

[Evildave]

Quote

Tell me again how Microsoft is losing.

http://marketshare.h...psp=101&qpnp=25

[yuki333]

oh no, they only own 87.75% of the market! It's a good thing they're offering 6 versions for those ~875,000,000 microsoft users to choose from.

[quackadilly]

Last time I checked, 87.75% was better than 9.81%......



Is my math wrong? Could someone please double check my work?

[cfw123]

Just one more instance why I have learned reluctantly to really hate Microsoft. As a result of this and many more instances of stupidity, I haver thrown out all my PCs and bought multiple Apple Macintoshes to replace them, and never been more happy that I did.

[swccman]

If Microsoft is selling Windows 7 Ultimate for $125, I'll take it.

The thing about being the at the top of the mountain is that you get to look down and find out what people want.

I liked XP, at the time I was less thn keen on Windows, but Vista Ultimate 64 Bit, now that is a good desktop OS. W7, even better, the people in Redmond must've been working overtime on kernel development.

I have grown quite used to the multimedia features and the finished software that doesn't die just because some 16 year old code monkey on AMP fogets to write an error handler.

My OS of choice will remain Vista Ultimate, until SP1 is released, then I will adopt W7 Uktimate.

[ShannonVanWagner]

Six editions of the same product with varying levels of built-in handicap is quite confusing and ridiculous indeed. Restricting technology like this is abusive and retards the evolution of computer science. Why on earth, other than pure $$$ would anyone want to sell a broken version of their product.. it's true insanity, and people really shouldn't accept this crap any more!
People have enough problems with Windows malware, activation, DRM, and all the "crap"-ware that comes preinstalled(but in useless, trial form), why would a company want to add six more levels of confusion?
In my opinion, there should only be three versions of windows:
* Corporate Business version
* Home Entertainment, regular use version
* Free version - For netbooks
As noted in this article "Will Microsoft hand the netbook market to Linux?", adding even $50 to the already low cost of a netbook is a failed business model, and so the only way to stay relevant is to provide a FREE version of windows for netbooks.
Also, if you think six versions is too much, you'll soon have the choice of using the friendlier open source Android (Linux based) operating system instead. And yes this comment is relevant to the article because if there are 6 versions of Windows confusion, than people may want to use Ubuntu or Android instead. Have a look at this article entitled "How Open Source Can Beat the Status Quo" to see what I'm talking about.
There's too much freedom out there to be wrapped around the axle in six versions of madness.. Seriously.
Oh and why is it that the yukki user is trying so hard to not let me add comments? Is there some money involved with that or something? Oh and I have written a blog, it's at http://humans-enabled.com. Humans enabled, that's what technology is for.

[Cernansky]

The next version of OS X, Snow Leopard, is going to cost current owners $29.
Yeah. Keep telling us about how Apple is overcharging us and Microsoft is the bargain.

[rgreen4]

ShannonVanWagner said:

Six editions of the same product with varying levels of built-in handicap is quite confusing and ridiculous indeed.

What handicap? The fact that it works with an infinitely greater number of wireless adapters than your chosen Linux? (Such as the broadcom wireless chip found in many notebooks made in the last decade).

ShannonVanWagner said:

Why on earth, other than pure $$$ would anyone want to sell a broken version of their product.. it's true insanity, and people really shouldn't accept this crap any more!

In what way is it broken? I have Vista Home Premium on three machines, two of which were clean installs. Everything works properly. No I do not have some of the features that are in the Ultimate version, which I chose not to have installed, but I would not call that broken. On the other hand a "free" OS that will not recognize my laptop wireless card and is touted by its zealots as the cure to everything, is useless on that machine.

ShannonVanWagner said:

In my opinion, there should only be three versions of windows:
* Corporate Business version
* Home Entertainment, regular use version
* Free version - For netbooks

Well in a way you are correct - Although there are six versions of Windows7 (more if you count the EU editions without Internet Explorer) if you were to walk into the store when it is released, you would only see two - Home Premium and Professional. What is so special about a netbook that you think Microsoft should give away their OS to be installed on it?

ShannonVanWagner said:

As noted in this article "Will Microsoft hand the netbook market to Linux?", adding even $50 to the already low cost of a netbook is a failed business model, and so the only way to stay relevant is to provide a FREE version of windows for netbooks.

Well, lets see - many netbooks came with Linux and have been returned as not having a useful OS. Many netbooks are also available with Windows XP, and the last time I heard, Microsoft was not giving that away, so why should the Windows7 edition be given away free? Oh, the the ones with XP have some being returned, but at rate less than 1/4 of rate of the Linux versions.

Everybody slams Microsoft and says their products are so bad and touts Linux. They call Vista a failure because it has 25% market share. Well, gee, it's only been out a little over 2 years, and XP didn't have appreciably more in it's first two years. Linux has been out for almost two decades and is given away free and has a 1% market share. Now Thats Failure. If six versions of Windows7 (4 OEM and Enterprise only editions) is confusing, what do you call an OS with over 100 different versions? (With a combines 1% market share).

[jeffwindowsteam]

One size (or two or three) does not fit all when you are trying to serve a billion customers. Hardware varies throughout the world, so do users' needs. To meet these needs, Microsoft has come up with 6 versions. It has been stated before, but just because these 6 versions exist doesn't mean you will ever see all of them, you will probably only see two, maybe three if you are intently looking for a specific version.

[yuki333]

Microsoft has the right the charge as much or as little as they want, they're corperation that has to pay their 90,000 employees and has spend millions on R&D. And if they charge too much, it wont sell. Yes, Leopord upgradie is only $29, but the upgrade to windows 7 home premimum is only $50. Not bad at all. Plus all PCs running Vista sold after July 1, 2009 qualify for a free upgrade to windows 7. At these price rates, the netbook version is probably sold to manufacturers at ~$20. Sure it increases the price, but not to an extent most people would care about. I'm not trying to prevent you from adding comments either Shannon, I assume most of us live in a country with freedom and can post all they want here, I'm trying to keep this topic at least fairly releven. But overall, there's not problems with the 6 versions, (1 sold to businesses only, one sold only to netbook manufacturers, and 1 sold to developing countries). The real freedom is being able to choose which OS you want, and not having to limit yourself to a single one.

[ShannonVanWagner]

"What handicap? The fact that it works with an infinitely greater number of wireless adapters than your chosen Linux? (Such as the broadcom wireless chip found in many notebooks made in the last decade)."
Yes it is a "handicap" when multiple versions of the same operating system ship on the same dvd but provide a different installation depending on the license key you enter. This is how they did it with Vista, see http://arstechnica.c...006/09/7820.ars , so I see no reason they would change this process with win 7. So since the installation DVD would include all versions, your installation would be "handicapped" to a certain version based upon which license key you entered while setting it up. The mere thought of having a developer waste time to engineer this type of restriction is painful, because the developer shouldn't be wasting time to engineer something only to restrict you (the user) from technology, rather - they should be using their time to ENABLE you (the user) MORE with technology.
As for Linux and wireless, yes there were some problems last year... due to the fact that the chipmakers were in bed only with MSFT at the time. But its a whole new world now(as it will be also in another six months), if you actually use Linux, you're more than likely to find a driver for your device. I notice you didn't leave the make/model of your wireless adapter and computer... if you would leave it, we can see about getting your wireless working. I just the other day installed the "restricted" wireless driver for a Dell D520 with broadcom 1390 WLAN for my Son's friend (and new Ubuntu convert). The installation via the restricted drivers utility in Ubuntu 9.04 involved clicking "enable" for the restricted driver, entering the user password, and rebooting the computer... very easy stuff, unlike removing the VUNDO or SMITFRAUD virus from a Windows PC.
"In what way is it broken? I have Vista Home Premium on three machines, two of which were clean installs. Everything works properly. No I do not have some of the features that are in the Ultimate version, which I chose not to have installed, but I would not call that broken. On the other hand a "free" OS that will not recognize my laptop wireless card and is touted by its zealots as the cure to everything, is useless on that machine."
As per my response above, different versions = difference levels of crippled software. Provide your laptop and wireless card make/model and we can get you going.
"Well in a way you are correct - Although there are six versions of Windows7 (more if you count the EU editions without Internet Explorer) if you were to walk into the store when it is released, you would only see two - Home Premium and Professional. What is so special about a netbook that you think Microsoft should give away their OS to be installed on it?"
Providing an OS without a browser as opposed to providing multiple browser selections is a purposeful joke in attempt to mock the whole idea in the first place. The IE lets you choose different default search engines, why shouldn't the OS let you select different default browsers? Netbooks are special because they are supposed to cost only a few hundred dollars(and so does a fully featured Ubuntu Dell Notebook.. see here: http://digg.com/linuxunix/299DellUbuntuLinuxLaptopcomputernota_netbook)... but when you add in an expensive OS and Office suite (around $500 worth, which is a DEAD business model according to John Dvorak) - that's unneeded because you can get a more nimble OS and full featured office suite for FREE. So DON'T let MSFT prevent very affordable netbooks from being a reality, use the FREE OS (i.e., Ubuntu or Android) instead... making win-7 netbook version FREE is the only way to compete with this... and that still doesn't make it worth it" And yes, I think they should give it away free. Google gives us a free product, and yet is still profitable, are you saying that you MUST pay a lot of money for software for it to be good?
"Everybody slams Microsoft and says their products are so bad and touts Linux. They call Vista a failure because it has 25% market share. Well, gee, it's only been out a little over 2 years, and XP didn't have appreciably more in it's first two years. Linux has been out for almost two decades and is given away free and has a 1% market share. Now Thats Failure. If six versions of Windows7 (4 OEM and Enterprise only editions) is confusing, what do you call an OS with over 100 different versions? (With a combines 1% market share)."
I call an OS, that is infinitely customizable, tightly integrated, with over 100 versions, that also works on 15 times as many hardware architectures (e.g., Arm), superior to one that doesn't. GNU/Linux is the Universal Operating System. Also, your 1% number only includes the latest venture in GNU/Linux products, that is the desktop. So is an OS only good if it has a lot of market share? I find that hard to believe. Dell sells 1/3 of its netbooks (every netbook has an Ubuntu version available) with Ubuntu GNU/Linux... is that a failure? GNU/Linux is already king in the web server market, at around 60%, and is very strong in many other areas. GNU/Linux is all around us my friend, whether it's web servers, Google, Amazon, Craigslist, Facebook, cell phones, TVs, Internet Devices, the list goes on and on... the real question isn't "who has used Linux", but "who hasn't used Linux" (-Zemlin). Over the next few years, we are going to see what GNU/Linux can do in the Desktop arena as well... and it's about time that humans are enabled(not restricted) with technology as they should be.

[jeffwindowsteam]

"so I see no reason they
would change this process with win 7. So since the installation DVD
would include all versions, your installation would be "handicapped" to
a certain version based upon which license key you entered while
setting it up."


Not seeing the arguement here. You want more features, you pay for more features. When you buy a strip down model of a car without AC or a CD player, is the car dealer crippling you because you didn't pay more for the model with AC and satellite radio?

[yuki333]

"but when you add in an
expensive OS and Office suite (around $500 worth, which is a DEAD
business model according to John Dvorak)"
They don't add in the office suite, you can pay for that or download a free one for windows, openoffice works perfectly fine on windows.



"I call an OS, that is infinitely customizable, tightly integrated, with
over 100 versions, that also works on 15 times as many hardware
architectures (e.g., Arm), superior to one that doesn't. GNU/Linux is
the Universal Operating System. Also, your 1% number only includes the
latest venture in GNU/Linux products, that is the desktop. So is an OS
only good if it has a lot of market share? I find that hard to believe.
Dell sells 1/3 of its netbooks (every netbook has an Ubuntu version
available) with Ubuntu GNU/Linux... is that a failure? GNU/Linux is
already king in the web server market, at around 60%, and is very
strong in many other areas. GNU/Linux is all around us my friend,
whether it's web servers, Google, Amazon, Craigslist, Facebook, cell
phones, TVs, Internet Devices, the list goes on and on... the real
question isn't "who has used Linux", but "who hasn't used Linux"
(-Zemlin). Over the next few years, we are going to see what GNU/Linux
can do in the Desktop arena as well... and it's about time that humans
are enabled(not restricted) with technology as they should be."


Not only are the linux dells rated at a 3.0 out of 5.0 by customers instead of the 3.9 that the windows models recieve, they are also technically more expensive. The linux model has a 40gb pata instead of a 60gb. It also comes with a 1 year warrenty instead of a 3 year that the windows model comes with. So if you upgrade your model to the exact same specs, you will pay $523 for the linux model and $499 for the windows model. I don't think servers plays into this either, we're talking on a consumer basis, not a high end web server basis. The only reason windows doesn't program ARM compatability into it's OS is cause they don't need to. There would be almost zero benefit from them doing this, but when the tegra chip becomes mainstream, you can except that they will havve done it.

[ShannonVanWagner]

"Not seeing the arguement here. You want more features, you pay for more
features. When you buy a strip down model of a car without AC or a CD
player, is the car dealer crippling you because you didn't pay more for
the model with AC and satellite radio?"

The argument is that you can get very powerful(not stripped down) operating system for your computer for FREE. So if there was a FREE car that had all the options of the purchased car, yes I would like to have that one instead.. and I wouldn't be doing everyone a favor by NOT mentioning it.

With GNU/Linux, people have figured out a way to give you the car, fully loaded, with the AC, satellite radio, power locks and windows, plus so much more installed, for FREE.

With a netbook, you pay the least amount possible for a computer.. until you add an expensive operating system. How is it a service to your fellow human being to be telling them that they should pay extra for an operating system that can be provided for absolutely free.

Is Freedom a bad thing?

[ShannonVanWagner]

"They don't add in the office suite, you can pay for that or download a
free one for windows, openoffice works perfectly fine on windows."
My point exactly.. you are on definately on the right track there.
"Not only are the linux
dells rated at a 3.0 out of 5.0 by customers instead of the 3.9 that
the windows models recieve, they are also technically more expensive.
The linux model has a 40gb pata instead of a 60gb. It also comes with a
1 year warrenty instead of a 3 year that the windows model comes with.
So if you upgrade your model to the exact same specs, you will pay $523
for the linux model and $499 for the windows model. I don't think
servers plays into this either, we're talking on a consumer basis, not
a high end web server basis. The only reason windows doesn't program
ARM compatability into it's OS is cause they don't need to. There would
be almost zero benefit from them doing this, but when the tegra chip
becomes mainstream, you can except that they will havve done it."
Where are you getting your Dell rating statement? It is not accurate..
These pages show 5/5 rating for Ubuntu GNU/Linux:
www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
These pages show 4.1/5 rating for Ubuntu GNU/Linux:
[http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-inspiron-10/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-inspiron-10&s=dhs&cs=19]
[http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-inspiron-10/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-inspiron-10&s=dhs&cs=19]
This pages show 3.9/5 but also for Windows XP home:
[http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-inspiron-12/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-inspiron-12&s=dhs&cs=19]
As for being cheaper, this page has a $299 Dell Notebook (not netbook), the specs are below:
[http://digg.com/linuxunix/299DellUbuntuLinuxLaptopcomputernota_netbook]
Intel® Celeron® 585 (1MB cache/2.16GHz/667Mhz FSB), Ubuntu GNU/Linux Desktop
Edition version 8.10, Glossy, widescreen 15.6 inch display (1366x768),
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 800MHz, 160GB SATA Hard Drive
(5400RPM), Intel Graphics Media Accelerator X4500HD, AND $13.8 Billion
dollars worth of FREE open source software for you to use/share/enjoy
And Intel is jumping on board with Moblin Linux for use with netbooks and the atom processor.
Here's the thing... I'm not part of any outreach marketing team, and I'm not going to profit if you buy a computer with GNU/Linux. I'm just a person who has found a better way, and I think the best thing I can do is to share it with you. If you need any help getting setup with Freedom.. contact me - I'd be glad to help.

[yuki333]

Evolve to what, another OS that can't do everything I need? I'd rather not limit myself to a single OS, which is why I use windows and linux.

[ShannonVanWagner]

I'll concede to that. No limitations is the way to go. And so let's try to spread the word, shall we?
You are enabling yourself with technology, way to go. Congratulations on your Freedom.
Enabling humans with technology is a beautiful thing.

[rgreen4]

ShannonVanWagner said:

Yes it is a "handicap" when multiple versions of the same operating system ship on the same dvd but provide a different installation depending on the license key you enter. This is how they did it with Vista, see arstechnica.com/business/news/2006/09/7820.ars , so I see no reason they would change this process with win 7. So since the installation DVD would include all versions, your installation would be "handicapped" to a certain version based upon which license key you entered while setting it up. The mere thought of having a developer waste time to engineer this type of restriction is painful, because the developer shouldn't be wasting time to engineer something only to restrict you (the user) from technology, rather - they should be using their time to ENABLE you (the user) MORE with technology.

I see you have never heard of modular programming. It is highly used in enterprise systems where the modules are customized for the location served by the application. The company I retired from had several inhouse custom written systems for the paper mill locations in different areas of the country. Modules were used so that the same application could be installed in each location, but the trade terms, unit measurements, and formatting could be differentiated by codes input to the codes file. The system read this when it loaded.

Vista uses a similar process during the installation. This also permits the Any Time upgrade where you simply contact MS and pay the upgrade fee, get a new COA and unlock the additional features you have now paid for. That is not a "crippled" or "handicapped" OS. Taking the lowest level of Vista, the Home Basic, it has all the basic OS functions, but lacks the encryption feature of Business, as well as the Media Player of Home Player. Does that mean Home Basic is crippled - apparently you think so, but you are the only one I have heard say so.

I agree the Win7 E edition is a joke, but since there is another thread discussing it, I will refer you to that for further comments.

I am not longer interesting in trying Ubuntu or any other Linux distro. I reverted my laptop back to it's original XP Home installation (simply reinstalled the original drive) when it became apparent that although Ubuntu 8.04 would recognize my network, it would not recognize my files on the NAS with CIFS file handling. Even though I am retired, I have better use for my time than fighting Linux. I was able to install Win7 on my laptop and connect to the network and access my files in less than 40 minutes. I fought Ubuntu for 4 hours over several days not including the search time to attempt to find solutions.