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How Does Unbundling IE in the EU Solve the Problem?
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#2
GorgeClimber 
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 03:18 PM
Dear Pamela,
It seems to me that the Windows OS you're referring to was an earlier one, i.e. XP. Perhaps Microsoft got smart between the prior court cases and today.
Microsoft is just giving the Europeans what they claim to want after all the whining by the Opera CEO.
Perhaps people need to recognize we're only talking about inexpensive software (less than $100). People don't have to buy it if they don't want it. Microsoft offers a good product for the money.
You can always download and use another browser if you don't like IE7 or 8 or whatever.
Perhaps the Europeans should develop a decent OS instead of their Linux garbage!
It seems to me that the Windows OS you're referring to was an earlier one, i.e. XP. Perhaps Microsoft got smart between the prior court cases and today.
Microsoft is just giving the Europeans what they claim to want after all the whining by the Opera CEO.
Perhaps people need to recognize we're only talking about inexpensive software (less than $100). People don't have to buy it if they don't want it. Microsoft offers a good product for the money.
You can always download and use another browser if you don't like IE7 or 8 or whatever.
Perhaps the Europeans should develop a decent OS instead of their Linux garbage!
#3
beakman
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 03:43 PM
Apple includes Safari in every OS they ship, so why point the finger to microsoft? The browser is a FEATURE of an operating system. And besides, look at other 'disadvantaged' browsers - Chrome, Firefox - they're killing IE and yet they're not complaining.
#4
nickr123
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 11:19 AM
This is so stupid. If you dont want IE uninstall it. I dont know how they expect to install firefox or whatever browser they want without having IE to download it or buying a cd That'll save them money alright having to buy a cd for every browser they want. Good job EU.
#5
Evildave
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 11:35 AM
>Perhaps people need to recognize we're only talking about inexpensive software (less than $100). People don't have to buy it if they don't want it. Microsoft offers a good product for the money.
An OS that costs less than $100, which YOU CAN NOT AVOID PAYING FOR with most new PCs.
Currently your choices for most PCs are Windoze Crippled Botnet Edition, Windoze Just Crippled, Windoze Almost Useful, Windoze Deluxified (MORE THAN $100), or Windoze With Everything It Should Have Had (WAY MORE THAN $100). Take your pick. You'll PAY your Microsoft tax one way or another.
What would 'fix' the problem would be mandating FULL DISCLOSURE of ACTUAL software licensing cost in each PC from EVERY manufacturer, and providing an alternative OS. Put $50 into 'Escrow' with the purchase, and after a trial period, send it to whichever software manufacturer the end user activates after the trial period, and 'recover' the wasted space to be a mirror backup of the OS partition (or let them use a credit card if they want to activate both). Or refund the $50 like a rebate if the end user chooses 'none of the above', or a free OS.
A truly FAIR way to purchase a fully functioning computer.
An OS that costs less than $100, which YOU CAN NOT AVOID PAYING FOR with most new PCs.
Currently your choices for most PCs are Windoze Crippled Botnet Edition, Windoze Just Crippled, Windoze Almost Useful, Windoze Deluxified (MORE THAN $100), or Windoze With Everything It Should Have Had (WAY MORE THAN $100). Take your pick. You'll PAY your Microsoft tax one way or another.
What would 'fix' the problem would be mandating FULL DISCLOSURE of ACTUAL software licensing cost in each PC from EVERY manufacturer, and providing an alternative OS. Put $50 into 'Escrow' with the purchase, and after a trial period, send it to whichever software manufacturer the end user activates after the trial period, and 'recover' the wasted space to be a mirror backup of the OS partition (or let them use a credit card if they want to activate both). Or refund the $50 like a rebate if the end user chooses 'none of the above', or a free OS.
A truly FAIR way to purchase a fully functioning computer.
#8
jazzy5
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 06:50 AM
What the EU commission should have done it's fine the Computer retailer, not Microsoft. They can build and sell any Computer with any OS, except Apple OSX, and any browser they or customer want. But wait, the customer wants Windows and by default IE. They can have Firefox, Opera or even Chrome install with the purchase of a computer, no need to remove IE. IE can be hide. Just like the sell of Windows 7 without IE is just hidding IE. It's still there. But some companies feel the need of the goverment support to sell their product even if the majority of people do not care for it. Or maybe is the anti-american feeling in EU. It's their way of giving the finger to the Americans thru bashing Microsoft.
#9
JimH443
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 07:39 AM
jazzy5 said:
Or maybe is the anti-american feeling in EU. It's their way of giving the finger to the Americans thru bashing Microsoft.
This is what I believe. I'll be convinced the EU is actually looking out for people when DeBeers is brought up on charges relating to monopolistic business practices - including, but not limited to, price fixing.
But NO! They're a European business.
#10
SmilingCarcass
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 11:38 AM
The point is you cannot uninstall IE- at least not easily or completely. And a browser will be included by OEM's but now they will be able to choose and maybe .will ask which browser you prefer.
#11
SmilingCarcass
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 11:45 AM
I'm amazed. Assuming most of you are USA citizens, don't you believe in the freedom to choose?
Or are the choices Henry Fords? Any colour you like as long as it's black?
Or are the choices Henry Fords? Any colour you like as long as it's black?
#12
MarioJP
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 11:56 AM
SmilingCarcass said:
I'm amazed. Assuming most of you are USA citizens, don't you believe in the freedom to choose?
Or are the choices Henry Fords? Any colour you like as long as it's black?
Or are the choices Henry Fords? Any colour you like as long as it's black?
uhh download and install?? how hard is that. Microsoft isn't stopping you.
#13
Evildave
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:41 PM
The issues is UNINSTALL.
You're still forced to deal with IE, because it's stuck into the M$ Windoze guts like a cancerous tumor in your brain.
What interface do you need to use to set a proxy, that EVERYTHING in windoze will use? Internet Exploder's 'Internet Settings'.
You hear about a new, horrible WORM/BOTNET and need to install an update... what pops up when you invoke 'Update'? M$ Internet Exploderz.
And when there's a back-end issue in Internet Exploder that can install nasty ActiveX exploit, can you guarantee it's DEFINITELY never running and waiting to be triggered? Of course not. Everything but the top-level GUI of IE is already running, all the time, just as soon as Windoze boots.
You're still forced to deal with IE, because it's stuck into the M$ Windoze guts like a cancerous tumor in your brain.
What interface do you need to use to set a proxy, that EVERYTHING in windoze will use? Internet Exploder's 'Internet Settings'.
You hear about a new, horrible WORM/BOTNET and need to install an update... what pops up when you invoke 'Update'? M$ Internet Exploderz.
And when there's a back-end issue in Internet Exploder that can install nasty ActiveX exploit, can you guarantee it's DEFINITELY never running and waiting to be triggered? Of course not. Everything but the top-level GUI of IE is already running, all the time, just as soon as Windoze boots.
#14
coolbreeze
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Posted 15 June 2009 - 12:48 PM
You can't uninstall I.E. from your O.S. Try it if u don't believe me, it's impossible. U can delete all the short cuts, or just not use it, but uninstall, noway jose.
#15
bbvammy
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Posted 15 June 2009 - 02:54 PM
@rkinne01
>It won't make a difference at all, most people will choose IE.<
Please don't includ me.
I hope that was base on some scientific data.
A browser that come with any new computer doesn't counted as "CHOOSE".
>It won't make a difference at all, most people will choose IE.<
Please don't includ me.
I hope that was base on some scientific data.
A browser that come with any new computer doesn't counted as "CHOOSE".
#16
GOED
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Posted 15 June 2009 - 02:56 PM
So what if you can't uninstall IE 8.
This is not keeping anyone from using another browser.
Win 7 installation RC already does away with
1-Windows Media Player
2-Email Program from MS
3-MS Chat
4-Photo Gallery
and if I am not mistaken, MovieMaker which is a more powerful program in Vista.
You have the OPTION TO DOWNLOAD WINDOWS LIVE APPLICATION IF YOU SO CHOOSE TO.
This is a big effort on the part of MS, you always have a choice with PC's.
Regarding other comments about MS forcing vendors to include only IE 8, really, don't you think that eventually all these partners would suffer in terms of sales if they choose not to provide options, and in doing so revolt against MS ?
The money that OEM's would loose would certantly make them probably sued MS for not allowing them to include other choices.
Let's be realistic here, MS has done a great job with IE 8 for Vista and Win 7, just because some people prefer other does not mean you don't have a choice.
In addition, not to start an argument of Apple / MS here, but is there no sales of Apple computers in the EU ?
How come Apple is not being investigated by the EU ?
I really don't understand this, even IE 8 services can be turn off in Vista with something like Autoruns, a program from MS that list everything that is loaded with the OS from the register, I have been able to unload a lot services with this program including drivers for other CPU's like AMD since my laptop is running an Intel processor.
Even USB drivers crated for Windows Me are included and not needed.
My point being Experts can and will see the oportunity for more choices, other people feel confortable with IE, and yet other will simply use what comes with the computer.
So OEM's providing choices even if IE 8 is included, would not be armstrong by MS, if at all, because they are complying with providing IE as well.
This is not keeping anyone from using another browser.
Win 7 installation RC already does away with
1-Windows Media Player
2-Email Program from MS
3-MS Chat
4-Photo Gallery
and if I am not mistaken, MovieMaker which is a more powerful program in Vista.
You have the OPTION TO DOWNLOAD WINDOWS LIVE APPLICATION IF YOU SO CHOOSE TO.
This is a big effort on the part of MS, you always have a choice with PC's.
Regarding other comments about MS forcing vendors to include only IE 8, really, don't you think that eventually all these partners would suffer in terms of sales if they choose not to provide options, and in doing so revolt against MS ?
The money that OEM's would loose would certantly make them probably sued MS for not allowing them to include other choices.
Let's be realistic here, MS has done a great job with IE 8 for Vista and Win 7, just because some people prefer other does not mean you don't have a choice.
In addition, not to start an argument of Apple / MS here, but is there no sales of Apple computers in the EU ?
How come Apple is not being investigated by the EU ?
I really don't understand this, even IE 8 services can be turn off in Vista with something like Autoruns, a program from MS that list everything that is loaded with the OS from the register, I have been able to unload a lot services with this program including drivers for other CPU's like AMD since my laptop is running an Intel processor.
Even USB drivers crated for Windows Me are included and not needed.
My point being Experts can and will see the oportunity for more choices, other people feel confortable with IE, and yet other will simply use what comes with the computer.
So OEM's providing choices even if IE 8 is included, would not be armstrong by MS, if at all, because they are complying with providing IE as well.
#17
bbvammy
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Posted 15 June 2009 - 03:06 PM
Internet Explorer should be treated as malware.
1. IE can't be removed.
2. IE is loaded as soon as OS is on and turn not turn off.
3. ActiveX is the gateway to download more malware and other viruses.
EU just solved the problem by not bundling IE.
I think I will get Win7 EU edition.
1. IE can't be removed.
2. IE is loaded as soon as OS is on and turn not turn off.
3. ActiveX is the gateway to download more malware and other viruses.
EU just solved the problem by not bundling IE.
I think I will get Win7 EU edition.
#18
rkinne01
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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:13 PM
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}@bbvammy{size}{font}
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}You're kidding right? A vast majority of the computer users are not tech savvy, they don't know Firefox or Chrome but they do know Internet Explorer and thats what they'll choose it for a browser. No facts needed its just common sense, but I am sure the data is out there to prove my point. People tend to stick with the brand name they know and trust and thats IE, you could put a choice of 20 browsers on a Win 7 disk and most will still choose IE. {size}{font}
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}I think the problem is that most of us that post here ARE computer literate and we forget that most people are not. People just want to send email, Instant Messgage, or use Facebook; they don't care about the browser just as long as it does what they think it should do. I think that as the informed people that we are, that we have a responsibility to let the less knowledgable know that there are other options out there. {size}{font}
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}Let's dial down the drama a little bit shall we? Nobody from Microsoft is forcing you to use IE. People act as if Microsoft has planted a bomb in the PC that will explode if you don't use IE every so often. Internet Explorer takes up a miniscule amount of space on today's hard drives, just set your browser of choice up as default then forget about it.{size}{font}
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}You're kidding right? A vast majority of the computer users are not tech savvy, they don't know Firefox or Chrome but they do know Internet Explorer and thats what they'll choose it for a browser. No facts needed its just common sense, but I am sure the data is out there to prove my point. People tend to stick with the brand name they know and trust and thats IE, you could put a choice of 20 browsers on a Win 7 disk and most will still choose IE. {size}{font}
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}I think the problem is that most of us that post here ARE computer literate and we forget that most people are not. People just want to send email, Instant Messgage, or use Facebook; they don't care about the browser just as long as it does what they think it should do. I think that as the informed people that we are, that we have a responsibility to let the less knowledgable know that there are other options out there. {size}{font}
{font:Times New Roman}{size:3}Let's dial down the drama a little bit shall we? Nobody from Microsoft is forcing you to use IE. People act as if Microsoft has planted a bomb in the PC that will explode if you don't use IE every so often. Internet Explorer takes up a miniscule amount of space on today's hard drives, just set your browser of choice up as default then forget about it.{size}{font}
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