[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Microsoft's Browser Unbundling Puzzles Europe here

[rgreen4]

Perhaps Microsoft should simply name it Windows 7 EU instead to make the point that it is only in the stupid EU market where it would be available.

[drf1499]

I don't understand the EU's hassel of Microsoft about enclosing the Media Player and IE of thieir OS. In my copy of Windows 7, RC1, I've found the option to disable IE if I chose. If Users in the EU don't want IE, then simply disable it and add the browser you want to use. I've not done it, I believe it's possible to have TWO browsers on your PC if you wish. I've tried 1 other browser (won't name) & found quickly out that some websites won't work unless you DO use IE. I think Microsoft should tell the EU to "like it or lump it" - that's all we're going to do to address the alleged problem. If the EU bans the sale of Windows, let them deal with the firestorm that European users will start!

[beachbums624]

This is tooooo funny . So the EU thinks that microsoft should be required to bundle the competitions products for free ? whats next , should they be required to bundle linux and the mac os as well ?

LOL Buy a copy of Windows and Get Every Other OS and Browser and Media Player and Email.................


i see about 80 DVD's and a 3 day Install.

[yankeeDDL]

There are a few things that "bother" me in all this story.
1) How do we know that MS will not twist OEM's arms to put back IE anyway? I mean, look at what they do with Dell ...
2) As much as I like the idea of a PC without IE, I wonder how would I download FireFox (or Chrome, or Safari) without IE?
I'll need a 2nd PC, a memory key ... Got to admit, having "some" browser coming with the OS is convenient from that point of view.

[acruzin]

Microsoft is an American company that chooses to do business in the EU, they are not forced to, just as the EU member countries are NOT forced to buy a windows license. Remember you are buying a license to USE Windows not own it. Microsoft should simply revoke all licenses out side North America and be done with it. In 90 days then file piracy charges directed at all who continue to use it illegally including schools,businesses, and especially goverments abroad. First charged filed: The EU. They can choose another operating system anytime they want now, but this would help them along.....remember the old adage: Be careful what you ask for....you might get it. Seems to be the case here.

[yankeeDDL]

@ Acruzin,

I believe the EU sees things differently than how you describe them. Specifically on the "monopolistic" part. Windows is (almost) a monopoly with 90% market share and for this reason it is believed to provide an un-fair advantage in the browser distribution.

About your idea that MS should just revoke the licenses outside of NA and be done with it ... wow. Imagine that: EU saving billions of dollars in software. I'm afraid that's only wishful thinking ...

[bombdiggady]

This is just ridiculous!
As much as I hate IE (Firefox is what I use), Microsoft SHOULD be able to bundle their own software with their OS.
They own both of those products, and should be able to bundle pretty much anything they want with their own operating system (just as long as it's not something like porn).
The EU must be running low on money or something, because there are not any legitimate reasons for what the EU is doing.

[bombdiggady]

So.....because Microsoft is doing supebly well in the EU means that they must be punished by the government there?

It is not like Microsoft is buying out Apple, or restricing access to linux or unix from their operting systems.

Don't forget that people can choose other OSs over Microsoft's offerings; it's not the fault of Microsoft if the general populace of the European Union is not bright enough to choose another product for their PCs other than Windows.

The EU does indeed seem to see things a lot differently.

Too bad the EU's point of view is short and blurred.

[yankeeDDL]

@bombdiggady

note that I was merely referring to the sentence, not to my opinion.

In any case, I think that yes, I think that positions of monopoly (or almost monopoly) need to be guarded in the interest of maintaining the market free and some competition. Does this mean that if somebody is "too good" it cannot "dominate"? No. Microsoft still have almost 90% market share (despite abot 5% decline in the past few years) which is quite high overall.

The problem is that Microsoft COULD abuse its position at the disadvantage of the customers. How? Some examples: they could force OEM to sell PCs with Vista even if they don;t want it or need it,or if they prefar XP. Just look at Dell, the largest PC manufacturer in the world. You cannot buy a PC without an OS. You have a few options with Ubuntu, but that's very recent history.
What does this have to do with the browsers? Well, install IE8 and you see that, without asking for confirmation, IE will be set as your default browser, even if IE7 was not the dafault browser. It will set msn.com as your default homa page, even if it wasn't on IE7. MSN brings money to Microsoft through advertisement: does this wualify as unfair competition? Maybe, maybe not, but in a world where internet is .. well, what it is today, a browser is critical and embedding yours in windows may not be considered fair. I'm not a lawyer, but as a user I welcome the idea of less IE.

[quackadilly]

Europe is being stupid about this.



You are buying MICROSOFT's product. Why should they bundle competitions' software? You want something else, go get it. That's what I do.





Another option for MS could be to provide links to other browser download locations the 1st time you run internet explorer.

[wrathforger]

the eu is being SO stupid.

[MarioJP]

yeah whats up with that. Now i know how they keep their healthcare system free. It has to give somewhere down the line. This is pathetic though its like saying "we are suing apple for not allowing other browswer other than safari".

EU is a joke.

[Evildave]

MarioJP said:

yeah whats up with that. Now i know how they keep their healthcare system free. It has to give somewhere down the line. This is pathetic though its like saying "we are suing apple for not allowing other browswer other than safari".

We keep our healthcare ruinously expensive (#1 cause of bankruptcy in America, and 50% of them DID have health insurance!). We also drive all of our jobs overseas (including to Europe and Canada) because it's so impossibly expensive to provide health and liability insurance to American workers.

The best health care nobody can afford.

ONLY in America (and third-world countries): "Blood in my urine? Well, it's not MUCH blood... I'll put off seeing a doctor and see if it gets better, I can't afford it right now."

[techwired09]

It doesn't make sense to me either. I totally agree with what a lot of you said, you are buying Microsoft's Product, so you take what they give you. If nothing else, take it with IE, uninstall and remove those files, and put your own stupid browser on there. If you want options, they will still be available as they are today... This is another reason that I think Microsoft should just say "whatever", stop wasting money on making a new OS that doesnt have a bundle, and tell EU to go figure out how to buy other PC's for their home users. Don't waste the time and money when you can be perfecting 7 for the rest of us who don't care if IE comes with it or not.

[LarryE]

I think Opera should be put out of business completely for starting this stupid thing. I had their useless browser installed, but as soon as I heard about their stupid move, I uninstalled it and will never put it on again. Half of my favorite sites didn't even work anyway. That's why they are ticked off at Microsoft. Their browser doesn't work and they think that by sueing Microsoft it's going to make it better. Well, it's not and you are going to lose even more market share as will those other "interested parties." It's all going to bite you in the you-know-what.

[MarioJP]

[quote name='Evildave']
>

MarioJP said:

> yeah whats up with that. Now i know how they keep their healthcare system free. It has to give somewhere down the line. This is pathetic though its like saying "we are suing apple for not allowing other browswer other than safari".We keep our healthcare ruinously expensive (#1 cause of bankruptcy in America, and 50% of them DID have health insurance!). We also drive all of our jobs overseas (including to Europe and Canada) because it's so impossibly expensive to provide health and liability insurance to American workers.The best health care nobody can afford.

ONLY in America (and third-world countries): "Blood in my urine? Well, it's not MUCH blood... I'll put off seeing a doctor and see if it gets better, I can't afford it right now."

apparently free health care I knew there was a catch. I only stated that somewhere it has to give EU is much different than the US but i wouldn't trade it especially how EU run things over there. And you can blame bush for outsourcing which could of been avoided. Now let just hope we can get those jobs back to the deserving Americans with BENEFITS.

[EmmJay]

Couple things to bear in mind while we argue for or against the decision:
1. Microsoft gave IE free just so it could topple Netscape back in the days when Netscape ruled.
2. The sites that don't work well with Opera isn't Opera fault. (Case in point, remember how sites were badly rendered in Firefox when it just came out?) Coders code to cater for MS miserable implementation of their own proprietary standards (learn CSS and you'll know what I'm talking about). Any site coded according to W3C specifications will render properly in ANY browser.
3. To those who think that IE can be disabled (is that the way for uninstal by the way?) think again. Try the help in Windows or Windows Mail or Outlook and see how much of IE runs in the background.

[LarryE]

If properly coded sites work with any browser, then why don't the sites that don't work properly in Opera, work perfectly in Google Chrome, Firefox 3.0.10, Safari 4.0, IE 8, and Maxthon 3.0 Alpha with the Webkit engine?

[BGG001]

LarryE said:

If properly coded sites work with any browser, then why don't the sites that don't work properly in Opera, work perfectly in Google Chrome, Firefox 3.0.10, Safari 4.0, IE 8, and Maxthon 3.0 Alpha with the Webkit engine?

Reasoning: they build their browser to lax the codes. Opera is a very strict browser when it comes to the web regulations, which is partially why it is faster than Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE8, and Maxthon.