[TechieXP]

Here is a fact.

Windows SP2 introduced a Security Center. The SC controls teh firewall and also how Windows Updates works.
Security Suites like Norton Internet Security and McAfee Security both come with there own Security Center. During install they both ask if you would like ti use their SC vs teh one in Windows. if you answer yes...ay setting you did in Windows Security Center will be disable to allow the new software to take over. That software has its own settings. Which means if you want WU to work as you wanted it...you need to set it that way in the new software.

Some users overlook this bec they don't read they simply install and move on. The biggest issues tied to Windows coes from not being educated. However it is not like the inforation isn't there.

But hey there are millions are car owners who still depend on roadside assistance to change a flat even tho the car as a book to tell u how. SOme peoplr are always going to be lazy...i suppose cars sould have wheels like the Mach 5. Just press a button and whammo...new tire.

[Pokester]

Out of probably ten computers @ home, only two are problem children... Sadly, one is my personal notebook w/ Vista.
The issue is with product cycles of 4-18 months, the focus is on cranking out the new... not fixing bugs with the old. No one cares if a service pack breaks your year-old scanner... because they know most people will either stop using it or just go buy a new one.
At work, we had over 15,000 systems that ran fine for almost a year... then one morning, we started coming into hundreds of randomly blue-screened computers. It took us months to discover it was an incompatibility between memory, mobo, that didn't surface until AFTER a service pack. After a month of legal wrangling, the mfr helped us swap out the memory & the desktops were fine again. Yet there was no problem with ANY of the memory... or the systems...

This is why I typically stick to systems that are in wide-scale corporate deployment... because Gateway or Dell are NOT going to dump 500,000 computers on a customer with a driver that causes blue screens. Well, they could... but then they'd also get sued and lose.

But, all manufacturers have a bad habit of dumping devices with poorly written drivers on the consumer market... and typically only high-end chips get regular re-visitation to ensure compatibility with service packs and bug fixes. Which means that with every new bug or vulnerability fix... or service pack... your chances of a device causing problems grows.
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Message was edited by: Pokester

[bbvammy]

wow ... so many complains .....

but, what have you done to stop this from Microsoft.

Nothing.

Everyday, Microsoft bend over all the PC users just like a good biotch and beg for its treat.

We the consumer should tell Microsoft what to do, not the other way around.

At least, Europeans got a pair. They stood up against Microsoft while Americans bend over and take it from behind.

Either stand up or shut up.

I stood up. ]:)

[quackadilly]

It's all about finding the root cause of the problems.


My computer still works after a patch....yours jacks up. I'd say something with your computer is not right.....not the patch. Since MS makes the standards, something on your computer did not follow that standard. Absolutely NONE of my computers have ever been messed up from a patch.....and they shouldn't if you've done it right.





Now I haven't been doing this for 30+ years, but I can tell you I know more than Asus's top tier tech support. I've proven that to Asus. The amount of experience you have with something means jack. It's the quality of experience. I know people that have been working with computers for the same amount of time as you and I completely school them tech-wise. Now you take guys like WinTard......there's another story. I haven't gotten nearly as in-depth as him. But the stuff I do know, I know like the back of my hand.





......I'm just sayin'......


?:|
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[quackadilly]

"At least, Europeans got a pair. They stood up against Microsoft while Americans bend over and take it from behind."



Stood up against a FREE browser???? That was smart.....

[quark]

Thanks poponcape, I learned something from your comment that I had never seen before! Very useful to know, and appreciated.

[bbvammy]

@quackadilly


>Stood up against a FREE browser???? That was smart.....<


You and I both know that its NOT about "Free Browser".


Its about "Freedom"


Freedom to choose, Freedom to use without any catch.


If Microsoft is a bigger man. He would have charge Europeans the same price with or without the "Free Browser"


This show the true color of Microsoft.


GREEN.

[Pokester]

Message was edited by: smax013
Message was edited by: Pokester

[Pokester]

But to finish the discussion...
You also failed to realize I wasn't ASKING for help. I was confirming that the problem mentioned in the article existed.


Edited by: smax013 on Jul 2, 2009 - no personal attacks please
Message was edited by: Pokester

[quackadilly]

"You and I both know that its NOT about "Free Browser".
Its about "Freedom""




You can still use whatever browser you want.....that is freedom.

[quackadilly]

If MS wanted to install updates under the radar, there would be no "question" about it.....you'd know it was being done and it would be happening to EVERYONE.
Message was edited by: smax013

[quackadilly]

Sure, as Techie said:


WinUpdate causes problems for some software used in corporate environments. Which is why I have it set to download (when I'm on free bits) so it don't download when I'm mobile (when I might be paying per megabyte).


But thats not the issue. The issue is installing updates that are unapproved by the user. FYI.....When you set WU to automatic, that means you approve of whatever patch MS comes out with. You set it to ask you first if you don't want it.


MS can not test their updates for every single software package available....that would be insane. That is 1 reason why there is such a thing as "IT"..... to make sure these things work when they are released to the workforce. If those computers fail, you didn't do your job.
Message was edited by: smax013

[TechieXP]

The problem with the native Windows Updates is it not only can cause Windows problems, but can cause issues with other software.
THis is one reason MSFT introduced WSUS. WSUS is similar to Windows Update, but it is a direct connection to the Windows server. IT PRo can set it to download updates to there own server and then test them and then push them out to various workstations.

This is why sometimes your workstation will take longer to go to teh desktop. Some Pros push the updates while you are working and they will install while shutting down. I stopped do that bec soe poeple wonder why the machine takes to long to shutdown and press and hold the powr button to force it down. Pulling at boot-time is another hassle bec people cant work until the updating is finished. For a very large company there is no choice to use one way of the other. For a small company like where I work with 25 users I can simple go and turn them on and off. However where I work we don't use MSFT enterprise tools. I am simply manually update each workstation, bec we don't have very powerful servers and we need them for other things. We also don't have a lot of bandwidth on our network as it is shared with our phone system.

Windows Update simply isn't flawless. But it is better than none at all. I think MSFT pusing updated driver using WU is bad. Here is why. The biggest problem I have come upon is with ATI cards and Creatives old Soundblaster line. The problem is there are several makers if cards that use ATI chips...
Most people who install these cards doit using the full software package. The ATI Catalyst software will only work with the version of the driver it coes with. If you download MSFT WDDM driver off WU...it causes lots of problems. Also other card makers even tho they use the same chips...alter the drivers to take advanatge of features they may add to the card. Again MSFT driver only support the basic function og the card...so other features break. The Soundblaster also have several cards that use the sae main chips, but offer different features. Thus if MSFt pushes an updated WDM/WDDM driver it breaks the software that cards come with. However it isn't totally MSFT fault. The process doesn't know that you used the software paclage to install it vs extracting the drivers and just installing them only.

When you run WIndows updat you also don;t have to install every patch. Some people do. You need to READ them. Some patches only apply to people having certain problems. If you're not having that problem or teh hardware installed on your pc that teh patch is for, why would you install it? Would you wrap your arm in a cast if it wasn't brokem? Some people simply just download everything.

However address this issue, I have never send a case where Windows simply just installed updates on it own...only in cases where another software which is designed to override the setting was goven permission to do so. Some people are simply not aware bec they don't read. Secirty Suites and WLOC is teh only progras designed to change this setting. For losers (like mydelf) who choose not to run anti-virus softwares are risking these setting be changed by malware software. But I don't have any or worry about it. If I get one I will know by other means.

I have port sniffers. nothing will get in or out that I won't know about.

I would never advise any home user to ever turn off Windows Update. It is best to use the recommended setting. And set them to run at night when you are not working at your computer. That way if something goes wrong, it doesn't happen in the middle you working. By default Windows Update is set to run at 3AM. Some people to this day still turn their pc off everytie they finish. There is never a reason to turn it off. You can leave it on as long as you have the power serttings set properly. The screen will shut off and so will most of what is in the pc after a time of non-usage. WIndows can thien update late at night and restart the pc with hurting u. At this point all programs should be closed...if u weren't using it why leave the appz open...do u leave them open at work?

some people jsut invite problwms by not using common sense.
In this case there are so many variables to consider, that you simply just can't outright blamed MSFT. But many do as soon as they here bad news they simply just blame them with identifying the full scope of the issue. In that case for those who were or were not effected..if you thin Windows is so bad, why even use it?

Apple's updates proces shas issues too...updates that don't complete, stall, break, cause the computers/phones to overheat and a host of other issues.

I choose to install updates 1 at a time...not a whle bunch at one time unless it is a service pack. I do that so that a restore point is created for each update. If you install a bunch of updates and somethings goes wrong...the restore created will remove all the updates that were install. Not all of them are cauing your problem. Since I run Windows Update ofte..i seldom have a lot to install. For those who do it once a month...again you;re creating a potential for problems.

I am willing to bet this problem is cause by a 3rd party app..it Windows itself. If MSFT finds it i a Windows issue they will fix it. However it never had been in the past and I can see whay it would be now.

[bbvammy]

@quackadilly


>You can still use whatever browser you want.....that is freedom.<


When an OS bundle its own browser and charge more without it.


Its message were very clear.


"Included my browser or pay"


I am not sure if you understand the word "Freedom", but I do.


I might use IE or not, but its my own choice.


Stop bundle something that I don't want.
Message was edited by: smax013

[bbvammy]

@quackadilly

Quote

Back on topic....

If MS wanted to install updates under the radar, there would be no
"question" about it.....you'd know it was being done and it would be
happening to EVERYONE.<

again, that doesnt sound like "Freedom" to me.



It sounds like I am being "Forcefed"



If MS wanted to install updates, I would have question about it.



At the end, its my computer and my personal time.



If I set it on "Manual Download", MS will ask for my permission. PERIOD.

[Pokester]

The fact that the article was written says others have experienced this BUG.


Message was edited by: smax013
Message was edited by: Pokester
Message was edited by: Pokester

[quackadilly]

"When an OS bundle its own browser and charge more without it.
Its message were very clear.
"Included my browser or pay"
I am not sure if you understand the word "Freedom", but I do.

I might use IE or not, but its my own choice.

Stop bundle something that I don't want."

Seeing as how you can download IE8 for FREE, how is MS charging you for it? They are probably charging more for 7E because they had to jump through hoops to remove IE.

You might want IE unbundled, but what about everyone else in the world? Do you represent the world? NO. Personally I don't care if they bundle it, I don't use it.

You don't have to buy Windows you know..... If you don't like it, go somewhere else for your OS.

That's freedom.
-----
On a side note, where are the final retail prices for Windows 7 and 7E?
Check out the Prices for Vista Business and Vista Business N (No Windows Media Player)...... no price difference.

[quackadilly]

What I meant was, if MS was installing updates without anyone approving it, there would be no question about "are they or are they not"....



Yeah, it is your personal time, that's 1 reason to set your updates to automatic..... they go automatically, even while you are away from your computer. MS gives you the option to choose which updates are installed......

Thats freedom.

[quackadilly]

"BUG"..... not necessarily MS installing stuff unapproved. If MS was installing stuff without permission on purpose, it would be happening to EVERYONE.


Excuse me? I don't get my instructions from a magazine. I've NEVER gotten help from a magazine. All of my experience is from trial and error and working with others who have experience. You assume too much....

My field experience? Sure.

I've been building, fixing and upgrading computers since I got into college. I went to the Colorado School of Mines for Computer Science for about 3 years and switched to engineering. While I haven't had a job with the title of "IT" or anything, my jobs have included some of those duties. A food producing company that I worked for recently as a manager didn't have a designated IT person. I serviced all of the computers (maybe 200 or so) and made sure everything was working. The place I'm at now, as a manager, does have an IT department. But I still do a lot of teaching to fellow employees about computers. Since I work the night shift, IT is not here. They are not on call. I fix the problems we encounter.

You gonna sneeze at that or what?







Like I said, if MS was doing it intentionally, EVERYONE would know it and they would have a lawsuit right now. And like you said, it's a BUG. Some people experience it, some people don't. Where I work, we're not having that issue.

[Pokester]

Let me point out the article started out with
bq. "Windows is installing "surprise updates" against the wishes of some users, who have expressly set up the operating system not to deploy patches without permission, researchers charged today."
There you have it... the VERY first line of the article.... I'm not the only person who's experienced this problem.
Message was edited by: Pokester