[WinTard]

[quote name='smax013']
>

WinTard said:

> Neither did I? I thought it may have violated new German laws as per Google? But whatever. For the record: I didn't use it to violate anything. I used it so I can view Zone 2 (French) movies bought at amazon.fr and unavailable at (amazon.com) in North America which is zone 1. And I've got all the bills and original DVD's to prove it. LOL! Geez, this North American society is getting more and more fascist by the day ?!!!

It is related to the DMCA in the US. At the moment, ANY circumvention of copy protection is a violation of the DMCA (there may be some limited exceptions, but I am not currently aware of them). And in order to play a different region code DVD, you either need to adjust your region code in your DVD player software (which many programs allow a certain number of times before it "locks" into place) or you need something that bypasses the CSS so that you can bypass the region code. Thus, while you might be using this for a perfectly acceptable reason (i.e. to watch a movie that you legally bought), it does not matter if it strips the CSS copy protection.

I will note that it is still not fully known if the DMCA provisions "over rule" your copyright Fair Use exceptions/rights. In generally, it is perfectly legal to copy a CD or DVD or software install disk for the purposes of backing it up. However, in the case of a DVD, in order to excercise your Fair Use rights to make a backup, you have to circumvent the copy protection, which would be a violation of the DMCA. The end result is that there is a conflict between the two laws, which won't be resolved until a court system hears and decides a case on it. In the mean time, the PCWorld staff has ruled that discussing such removing of copy protection for DVDs (i.e. ripping DVDs) will not be permitted on the forums until they get word otherwise from their legal counsel.

Regardless, the real issue is that fact the AnyDVD removes the copy protection. From their own site:

"AnyDVD works in the background to automatically remove the copy protection of a DVD movie as soon as it's inserted into the drive, allowing you then to backup the movie using a DVD backup tool such as CloneDVD and CloneDVD mobile."

This would currently be construed as illegal in the US under the DMCA. Thus, linking to it is against the rules of the PCWorld forum.

And we would request that you don't try to "get around" such forum rules by posting links to Google search that find such products. This is a privately owned website and as such, THEY get to make the rules as THEY (as in PCWorld) would be the ones sued if someone wanted to do so. When you created your account and started posting, you agreed to abide by the rules of the Community, so we ask that you do so.

FWIW, if you wish to discuss such activity, there are plenty of other sites that are willing to risk the potential for being sued, so it is not like you cannot discuss it at all...just not here.

I appreciate what you say smax013.

I don't want to discuss it at all. I kept it a one liner. I am just trying to help members here, who may be experiencing oddities with Windows 7 or Vista. And I simply state that I have no technical problems or oddities... Nothing more, nothing less.

For the record, I didn't post a link to the software, or the software manufacturer, but to a google search result with the name of the software in it... I didn't even post a cut-and-paste going into any of the details, um, like you just did BTW... In effect discussing taboo, woooh, subject here at PCWorld...

And I am NOT trying to "get around" BS! Are we not adults? In a free society? Point well taken, from this point henceforth, in the future, I SHALL NOT POST LINKS TO GOOGLE referring 'said' software, because it is blasphemy here at PCWorld! You moderators are taking your jobs way too seriously, and blow things OUT OF PROPORTION ,while you BREAK YOUR OWN RULES! Geez! And then imply BULL intent on the part of the innocent PCWorld member posting harmless info, freely available. Like Galileo, discussing the Earth isn't the center of the Universe, and INQUISITION, ARREST AND ALL THE BULL of ignoramuses of the days...

And yet, another fundamental principle, freedom of speech is being trampled...
[quote name='smax013']
> [quote name='WinTard']
> >

bbvammy said:

> > I don't have $399 ]:)
> Then you can't complain! Stay with Ubuntu. Since I run both (actually most of the Linuxes and Windows) I can state that Ubuntu or for that matter, any Linux, isn't in the same class as Windows 7. Sorry, too bad, soo sad. But hey, what you don't know can't hurt you right?
>
> Oh you know you can boot any Linux under Windows, right?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~
> When you have given nothing, ask for nothing.
> {Albanian Proverb}

Anyone can complain...it ain't called Free Speech for nothing.

Now, whether or not the complaints have any "merit" migth be a whole other matter.

Which is more important? Draconian self-serving, selfish interests of a corporation, or the fundamental individual's rights?

Good thing I am NOT in the USA -- So I am NOT breaking any US Law... So legally purchasing what is available into another continent such as Europe, and coming to North America, and one can't use it? ??? ????? That is Fair Use? Do I or should I care about DVD regions? BS! I legally paid for the DVD. They accepted my money and shipped to me. I paid duty when it came into the country. I am going to view that legally purchased foreign DVD legally and fairly. Regardless of who says what. It is not my fault if the foreign language DVD sold in Europe, isn't available to purchase here in North America...

Well I am complaining about this ridiculous self-serving DMCA.

Whoever puts up with that kind of draconian self-serving DMCA logic, will become a slave to dictators, sooner than later... How about standing up for what is right? For a change? Oh, most are too too coward? And I am not saying break the law. I am saying CHANGE the law. Some could twist the law to their advantage? Kick them back into oblivion where they belong! Legally. Not that long ago, segregation and prohibition were legal? Things CHANGE... Usually for the better. :)

PS: Oh, I can't change that DVD region more than five times, then that's it. Basically rendering the issue moot... What's wrong isn't the end-user. It's the industry's greed! And BTW smax013, to make it perfectly clear, my fury isn't against you personally. No not at all. You provide reasonable info, and rationale, and like I stated, I appreciate what you have to say. My fury is directed at those lobbyist who paid for and bought those politician-for-rent to enact this infamous and morally wrong DMCA! More on that at http://eff.org

~~~~~~~~~~
They, who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Benjamin Franklin

To see what is right, and not to do it, is lack of courage or of principle.
~ Confucius

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
~ Edmund Burke

He who puts up with insult invites injury.
{Jewish Proverb}

[smax013]

WinTard said:

I appreciate what you say smax013.

For the record, I didn't post a link to the software, or the software manufacturer, but to a google search result with the name of the software in it... I didn't even post a cut-and-paste going into any of the details, um, like you just did BTW... In effect discussing taboo, woooh, subject here at PCWorld...

It is perfectly find to discuss the issue at hand...you just get into trouble when you put anything up that explains how to do or post links (either directly or indirectly) to software that can do it. Technically, you could say that I showed someone how, but I was trying to explain to you why someone took action. Maybe it would have been better to do it by way of a PM.

Quote

And I am NOT trying to "get around" BS! Are we not adults? In a free society? Point well taken, from this point henceforth, in the future, I SHALL NOT POST LINKS TO GOOGLE referring 'said' software, because it is blasphemy here at PCWorld! You moderators are taking your jobs way too seriously, and blow things OUT OF PROPORTION ,while you BREAK YOUR OWN RULES! Geez! And then imply BULL intent on the part of the innocent PCWorld member posting harmless info, freely available. Like Galileo, discussing the Earth isn't the center of the Universe, and INQUISITION, ARREST AND ALL THE BULL of ignoramuses of the days...

We Moderators are enforcing the rules as we are told to enforce the rules. And right now it is against the rules to post information on how to rip DVDs...even if that information is free available through Google searches, etc.

And as I have said before, if you believe a Moderators has gone too far, feel free to send a PM to Bill ([~2004]) with your complaint. If we overstep, then he will deal with us.

Quote

And yet, another fundamental principle, freedom of speech is being trampled...

Yes, but you have willing agree to "temper" your freedom of speech by agreeing to the rules (which you do when you sign up for an account). Again, this is a site that is privately owned. THEY are liable for it. Thus, THEY face the consequences of "improper" stuff that occurs on it. As such, they can impose limits. Besides, your freedom of speech is not really being trampled...you can go to any number of other sites and express yourself on this issue there. This is no different that if you enter my house and express yourself in a manner that I don't like, I have every right to not ask you to say those things and if you decline my request, I can toss you out of my house. This is PCWorld's house (not mine, not yours).

Quote

Which is more important? Draconian self-serving, selfish interests of a corporation, or the fundamental individual's rights?

Neither. Both are equally important as long as both are exercising their legal rights.

Quote

Good thing I am NOT in the USA -- So I am NOT breaking any US Law...

And thus, many would argue that you don't have any freedom of speech rights under the US Constitution, unless you are a US Citizen living outside the US. ;)

>So legally purchasing what is available into another continent such as Europe, and coming to North America, and one can't use it? ??? ????? That is Fair Use? Do I or should I care about DVD regions? BS! I legally paid for the DVD. They accepted my money and shipped to me. I paid duty when it came into the country. I am going to view that legally purchased foreign DVD legally and fairly. Regardless of who says what. It is not my fault if the foreign language DVD sold in Europe, isn't available to purchase here in North America...
Well I am complaining about this ridiculous self-serving DMCA.

Whoever puts up with that kind of draconian self-serving DMCA logic, will become a slave to dictators, sooner than later... How about standing up for what is right? For a change? Oh, most are too too coward?

Never said I agree with the DMCA. In fact, I find it to be a "end run" by the media companies around the Fair Use provisions of Copyright Law.

But, I don't get to pick and choose which laws I follow and don't follow. None of us do. We have to follow them all until a court strikes them down. If you feel a law is wrong, then contact a lawyer and see if there is a way to fight it and try to get it struck down.

PS: Oh, I can't change that DVD region more than five times, then that's it. Basically rendering the issue moot... What's wrong isn't the end-user. It's the industry's greed! And BTW smax013, to make it perfectly clear, my fury isn't against you personally. No not at all. You provide reasonable info, and rationale, and like I stated, I appreciate what you have to say. My fury is directed at those lobbyist who paid for and bought those politician-for-rent to enact this infamous and morally wrong DMCA! More on that at http://eff.org

I am not going to disagree. I strongly dislike the DMCA, but my dislike for it does mean that I get to ignore it unless I am willing to face the potential consequences.

[WinTard]

smax013 said:

And thus, many would argue that you don't have any freedom of speech rights under the US Constitution, unless you are a US Citizen living outside the US. ;)

Oh you mean the US Constitution doesn't believe in principles apply to all, and there are two classes of citizens? Like the Arians, blond-blue-eye that let to Hitler and practically caused a Genocide in WW2?... ;)
Naah, of course not. You and I are only joking right? As for the many would argue, well many allowed such a tragedy to occur in Germany, during WW2 as well?

Good thing as I say, I am not subject to the US laws, since I don't reside in the US. The laws of our country where I reside, I follow.
Bottom line is I don't feel I got into trouble. I feel some moderators justify their existence by raising trouble... Nothing personal. But frankly, over one obscure google search link, a one liner? Not discussing ANYTHING? To where it is now? Do you know what the term overzealous means?
You saying I got into trouble means nothing to me. I won't change who I am on account of moderators or PCWorld either. And I will cross the bridge when I get there. ;)
Oh, and I don't feel you guys overstepped anything. When I do, you will see... In the meantime, I won't play into your little games. I think, speak and act for my own, completely ignoring other's hidden or stated agendas. I don't report to PCWorld, unlike you.
Message was edited by: bcappel

[bcappel]

Lets keep this discussion on topic please.



Any discussion involving copyright infringement has been determined to be inappropriate by our attorneys and must be removed.



Thank you,

Bill

[WinTard]

Um, since you are the current 'boss' of these forums could you please answer this:

Was the implication raised by your moderator, smax013 appropriate, in talking about Freedom Of Speech only applicable to US Citizens? Does it only apply to US Citizens, or does PC World welcome everybody from the whole world? I was also assured by your predecessor, PCWorld isn't a dictatorship.

As to keeping this discussion onto topic, I fully agree, but am compelled use the exact same rationale that smax013 uses: Answering a point raised in the thread. In this case by your own moderator...

I will repeat and state that I do not want to discuss copyright infringements issues here at all. And won't; unless raised by somebody. And please note this thread went off-topic thanks to smax013. The edit by AuroraDizon was appropriate, uncontested, and would have been left at that. However the pages of thread that ensued, were (in part) attributable to smax013 as well. Credit to where credit is due.

Anyway, I know it's not easy to make such a large community work smoothly, I wish you the best of success in your endeavours. Also please note you don't have to worry about me. As long as the fun and interest is there, I shall engage into goodwill and civil discussions and contribute as much as I can towards our wonderful PCWorld Community. Once the fun is gone, I shall simply retire, no fuss from this community, and move on.

Cheers!

[smax013]

WinTard said:

Um, since you are the current 'boss' of these forums could you please answer this:

Was the implication raised by your moderator, smax013 appropriate, in talking about Freedom Of Speech only applicable to US Citizens? Does it only apply to US Citizens, or does PC World welcome everybody from the whole world? I was also assured by your predecessor, PCWorld isn't a dictatorship.

For the record, I said "some people" believed that...not me. You appear to have assume that "some people" included me, when it did not. I happend to disagree with those people that believe many of the "basic" freedoms in the US Constitution only apply to US Citizens...I believe that they apply to all in principle, if not legal terms.

Quote

As to keeping this discussion onto topic, I fully agree, but am compelled use the exact same rationale that smax013 uses: Answering a point raised in the thread. In this case by your own moderator...

I will repeat and state that I do not want to discuss copyright infringements issues here at all. And won't; unless raised by somebody. And please note this thread went off-topic thanks to smax013. The edit by AuroraDizon was appropriate, uncontested, and would have been left at that. However the pages of thread that ensued, were (in part) attributable to smax013 as well. Credit to where credit is due.

My primary response was to explain why your post was edited when you commented/complained about it being edited. The discussion then went from there due to BOTH of us contributing to it.

[ted1020]

to WinTard, you write like a USA citizen. I assume you live in Europe.

In today's WSJ is an article about MicroSoft you might like to read. it may be on the Net? Haven't looked.

MS is an interesting company. They have enough money to go anywhere and do anything they like. Too bad

their software, well, if you have the best, you don't always get the most money.

Check out Ubuntu 9.04 Live CD as an OS. Then read the info on comparative testing. Check out the history of

Unix/Linux. Then consider MS will move mountains to do it in becuase they have the means.

Think about OS and software that works well and does not imply a constant sending of $ to Redmond.

Linux is grass roots thing, a people thing. Not a *[censored].

In political terms I think you understand it's best not to have all your eggs in one basket, so why OS's and software?

Write and read beween the Lions! Best Wishes

[WinTard]

[quote name='smax013']
>

WinTard said:

> Um, since you are the current 'boss' of these forums could you please answer this:
>
> Was the implication raised by your moderator, smax013 appropriate, in talking about Freedom Of Speech only applicable to US Citizens? Does it only apply to US Citizens, or does PC World welcome everybody from the whole world? I was also assured by your predecessor, PCWorld isn't a dictatorship.
>

For the record, I said "some people" believed that...not me. You appear to have assume that "some people" included me, when it did not. I happend to disagree with those people that believe many of the "basic" freedoms in the US Constitution only apply to US Citizens...I believe that they apply to all in principle, if not legal terms.

> As to keeping this discussion onto topic, I fully agree, but am compelled use the exact same rationale that smax013 uses: Answering a point raised in the thread. In this case by your own moderator...
>
> I will repeat and state that I do not want to discuss copyright infringements issues here at all. And won't; unless raised by somebody. And please note this thread went off-topic thanks to smax013. The edit by AuroraDizon was appropriate, uncontested, and would have been left at that. However the pages of thread that ensued, were (in part) attributable to smax013 as well. Credit to where credit is due.

My primary response was to explain why your post was edited when you commented/complained about it being edited. The discussion then went from there due to BOTH of us contributing to it.

Um, when and where did I complain about my post being edited? Note I wish we could stay on topic... You know what? If you don't reply, I won't either, and we can put this tempest in a teacup to rest once and for all... For the record, If I have a complaint, you will know about it because I don't mince my words. If I felt being censored was 'wrong' I suppose we could both fill entire books... I didn't mind a bit being censored, since I didn't think or know that posting a google search link to a well known program was 'illegal'. And the google search isn't to break the rule. What rule? It is because it provides a more well-rounded view of what people say about this or that. Good and bad. A better perspective in other words... Finally note that people experiencing these kinds of problems with Vista, simply wouldn't with that filter. And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with ripping discs. Which makes it on topic IMHO. It's all the legaleze and constitution that has NO business in these threads.

[bcappel]

Since this is a privatey owned web site, Freedom of Speech is not applicable here, but I believe smax013's comment was in jest. Of course all are welcome here as long as we stay within the community standards.



The request to get back on topic was not intended solely for you, but for everyone.



Thank you,

Bill

[WinTard]

It is my personal opinion that:

Freedom of speech not being applicable at PC World, perhaps not from a legal perspective, but certainly from a moral and practical perspective. Or else, there wouldn't be many members in this online discussions community. As for everybody being welcome, that clarifies things, officially. Obviously, we must all remain within community standards, moderators included. I have no problems with that and strongly believe in the principle that what is fair is fair.

And in the end, we must all choose a path, some that will lead to better results than others... We must also be careful that 'in jest' or jokes not be misunderstood by others, or ignore the fact they could potentially escalate into unpleasant situations for all to the detriment of the entire PCWorld Community. Nor can anyone use a 'joke' to convey a veiled message either; or use a joke as cover for when the proverbial shite hits the fan...

Thank you for the quick reply. :)

~~~~~~~~~~
All virtue is summed up in dealing justly.
~ Aristotle

Wisdom is the best means to achieve the best ends.
~ Tony Orbin