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110 Replies Last post: Jun 17, 2008 7:21 AM by Kilme   Go to original post 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 Previous Next
Click to view garrisonjs's profile New Member 7 posts since
Aug 19, 2007
90. Aug 19, 2007 8:28 AM in response to: PCWorld
10 Things We Hate About Apple
Toilet Seat laptops are collectibles. When Apple hits a foul ball, time usually brings it back into fair territory. Same applies with the Twentieth Century Mac and the Cube. Good design turns the duckllings into swans.
Click to view getdusty's profile New Member 1 posts since
Nov 28, 2007
91. Nov 28, 2007 9:10 AM in response to: PCWorld
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
First, I want to say that I like the concept of the apple products and I love the look and feel of them. My problem is with the company and their policies. They seem to farm out the cheapest labour and products and charge a ridiculous premium for poor quality hardware. I was also concerned about the price differential between Canada and the US even when the Canadian dollar was worth $1.10 US. When I bought my macbook I found out why. They ship from China (seems odd not to have North American warehouses). The plane lands in Alaska? Then to Kentucky and finally to me up in Canada. Now any other company that tried to pull that on my would be instantly banned forever on my list of companies to deal with. Unfortunately, I'm curious and obviously my clients are curious so I have begrudgingly agreed to pay more for a service delivery model that is 20 yrs old and is the furthest thing from being customer focused or customer friendly. I love the software, look and concept - hate the company...
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
92. Nov 28, 2007 4:51 PM in response to: PCWorld
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
Okay, I'll bite.

2. Apple used to have a reputation as a ship with the unusual characteristic of leaking from the top. Their current secretiveness is not without good cause.

6. Puck Mouse? Bad idea.

Original iBook? Amazingly durable laptop, probably much more than the Dual USB iBook, which itself was far more durable than the PowerBook. iBooks were designed as workhorse portables that could take the abuse of daily use by students.

Shuffle Gen 1a mistake? Try and find another portable MP3 player with equivalent or better signal quality at the headphone port under load.

On the other hand, whose bright idea was it to put the Spotlight icon in the corner of the screen? What can you do with the mouse in the Spotlight Menu? Why waste an infinitely large mouse target on an application that relies on a text based interface?

7. If you realized your front door lock was broken, would you put a sign out advertising that fact before you fixed it? Sounds like MS are the ones that handle this in a boneheaded manner.

9. LOT's of Mac users upgrade their Macs. I've seen G3s B&Ws upgraded to G4s, and heard of Core Duo Minis and iMacs upgraded to Core 2 Duos. As far as the power of Apple's portables, PC World readers know that the fastest Windows Vista notebook is a Mac.

10. The iPod also supports WAV, AIFF and Apple Lossless, not just AAC and MP3. Since it is Apple's contractual obligation to make sure FairPlay is not cracked (or at least not left unpatched), it makes perfect sense to not license their DRM. If you don't like DRM, complain to the RIAA.
Click to view Gomadic's profile New Member 1 posts since
Nov 30, 2007
93. Nov 30, 2007 9:30 AM in response to: PCWorld
10 Things We Hate About Apple
What about the cost of accdessories like iPhone wall chargers and iPod car chargers? these high cost solutions are why we removed offer apple charging solutions at about half the cost and they work with just about any other hand held device. While apple products are innovative and cutting edge, the closed system concept isn't always best for the customer.

Message was edited by: Cosmo, no spam allowed
Click to view FHDWOIFHWEROIPH's profile New Member 1 posts since
Mar 4, 2008
94. Mar 4, 2008 12:54 PM in response to: PCWorld
10 Things We Hate About Apple
Pcs have stayed the same for ever and they still suck
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 46 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
95. Mar 24, 2008 9:32 PM in response to: PCWorld
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
I've liked OS X and would have considered using it but for one major issue - I've got far more freedom and intellectual growth from using a PC. I've never owned a Dell or HP etc. because i've always been able to built my own high end PCs. Everything inside all my computers is researched and handpicked for highest performance. I don't view computers as mere consumer electronic devices like Mac users do, and it's always been odd to me that a Mac user will actually like a computer based on it's external glossy appearance; to me that's irrelevant and downright silly. It's what's inside it that counts. The hardware used in Macs is always so far behind what you can get for a PC that i have always owned a computer more powerful than any Mac. So as long as there is no OSX version that can be run on a PC i'll never use it. Mac users also seem to be less inclined to be logical and have problems thinking without having emotional tantrums. They live in much simpler computing environments and yet believe that they benefit intellectually from it. I fear that the net result of exposure to a Mac world is a general decline in intellect. It can't be healthy for a modern human mind to be exposed to a world where basic logical thinking, self-criticism and problem solving are rendered optional. Simplicity fosters the simple-minded. The world of the PC is just too complex a thing for the simple minds of the Mac users to endure.
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
96. Mar 25, 2008 9:05 AM in response to: eMJay
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
The hardware used in Macs is always so far behind what you can get for a PC that i have always owned a computer more powerful than any Mac.

You realize that, aside from moving away from legacy BIOS in favor of EFI, Macs use the same hardware as PCs, right? It has been my experience that the ones who complain the loudest about Macs are the ones who know the least about them.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 46 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
97. Mar 25, 2008 10:16 AM in response to: RastaMon
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
Oh i know plenty about Macs, which is why i don't ever buy them. Only persons who are capable of BUILDING their own will know the real difference between a Mac and a PC. Get out of this consumer electronics way of thinking. I'd like to see you try to put an AMD chip in a Mac. Or upgrade the motherboard to support the next generation of memory modules or harddrives. With a Mac you're stuck with the mainboard and CPU...if it gets fried you have to buy a whole new Mac. With a PC absolutely everything is swappable from the case inwards. Just having components also found in a PC doesn't make Macs the same because your ability to change them is limited and this limits your computer's performance ceiling forever. This isn't rocket science.
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
98. Mar 25, 2008 9:09 PM in response to: eMJay
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
I'd like to see you try to put an AMD chip in a Mac.

Why would I want to reduce the performance of my Intel Mac?

. With a Mac you're stuck with the mainboard and CPU...if it gets fried you have to buy a whole new Mac.

Many Macs have motherboards that allow for CPU upgrades. Most other parts are module as well, just like with PCs.

Just having components also found in a PC doesn't make Macs the same

True. You can't run OS X legally on just any PC. Which means I can run one more operating system on my make than you can run on your homebuilt PC. OTOH, my Mac can run any other OS just as fast as a PC with the same hardware.

BTW, I upgrade the hardware in my Macs, and it isn't rocket science.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 46 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
99. Mar 25, 2008 10:38 PM in response to: RastaMon
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
Clearly you still miss my point. Not surprising; Mac users think in only one dimension....if at all....


Clearly you dont know that Intel only just recaptured the lead over AMD where CPU power is concerned. Prior to Core Duo, AMD had the best chips on the market. It's just a matter of time before they retake the lead again. When that happens Mac users will be scratching their heads...again...and be left eating dust...again...

And I'll say it again..with a Mac you're stuck with the Mainboard and CPU....Just being able to replace a C2D with another C2D doesn't count in my book as a real upgrade. With a PC i can move to triple core or quad core from dual on a whim. And as long as your apple mainboard remains the same you only get limited performance boosts using module upgrades. When you change the mainboard in a PC you get improved performance of your modules and daughter boards as well and you can buy modules that take advantage of new features in your new mainboard. AND WITH A MAC YOU LOOSE YOUR COMPUTER WHEN YOUR MAINBOARD GETS FRIED!!! Why on earth would i settie for that? If i fry a PC mainboard i just get a better one.

Yes you can run OSX while I still can't. And yes, your computer will run only as fast as a PC with the same components now that you're using intel...But that's my point - your computer's components don't compare to the best that the PC World has to offer on any given day, so your Mac computer will always be slower than mine.....I'm already using DDR3......you can only watch...END OF STORY...

And yes, upgrading hardware is a piece of cake, especially since the days of pin config are long gone...but the real challenge is in the tweaking...what? you thought that just sticking hardware in there was all it took to get the most out of your system? At the end of the day you've settled for a good OS on a mediocre machine. I'm not moving to OS X until Apple allows clones of its mainboards to return to the PC market. But Apple would never allow it because PCs running OS X would outperform anything they could sell themselves.

Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
100. Mar 26, 2008 10:14 PM in response to: eMJay
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
Clearly you still miss my point. Not surprising; Mac users think in only one dimension....if at all...

I understand your point, and recognize it for what it is: incorrect.

Clearly you dont know that Intel only just recaptured the lead over AMD where CPU power is concerned. Prior to Core Duo, AMD had the best chips on the market.

Do you really consider two years ago "only just" recaptured?

Just being able to replace a C2D with another C2D doesn't count in my book as a real upgrade.

I seem to remember reading a few articles about people upgrading their G3 CPUs to G4 CPUs and Core Duo processors to Core 2 Duo processors.

AND WITH A MAC YOU LOOSE YOUR COMPUTER WHEN YOUR MAINBOARD GETS FRIED!!!

Why would you believe that the logic board on a Mac is non-replaceable? It's as easily replaceable as in a PC.

But Apple would never allow it because PCs running OS X would outperform anything they could sell themselves.

You might want to check out some PC World benchmarks of Macs running Windows. Apple builds some of the fastest Windows capable machines on the market.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 46 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
101. Mar 27, 2008 12:47 AM in response to: RastaMon
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
"I understand your point, and recognize it for what it is: incorrect. "

I'm laughing at you now :^0

"Do you really consider two years ago "only just" recaptured?"

Of course it is! The war for the most powerful microchip has been raging for many years. Two years is nothing compared to the length of time we've been having a chip war. AMD will be back in charge before another 2 years passes. In any case you should be thanking all of us PC users for the opportunity to use an Intel microchip. Had it not been for the war between Intel and AMD that WE fostered, you would still be trying to jump-start a G5. Competition in the PC market pushed CPU specs outside the range of Apple's developers' capability to match it. It was only when Apple realised that the innovations of the PC market were leaving it behind that it embraced Intel to stay viable.

"I seem to remember reading a few articles about people upgrading their G3 CPUs to G4 CPUs and Core Duo processors to Core 2 Duo processors."

:^0 I throw my head back and laugh again...You still dont get it. Can YOU upgrade a G3 to a Core 2? NO...Can I change a Pentium 2 to an AMD XP? Yes i can! By just swapping chips, boards and DIMMs! YOU can only upgrade your chips as long as the upgrade CPUs share the same socket architecture. I can switch to any new socket type that i choose, even across chip brands, by simply switching mainboards. And before you try to distract again...no..i wouldn't choose an AMD today because Intel rules the benchmarks (for now), but at least i have the choice to do so whenever they come up with the next Intel crusher. Your fate is that of Intel's so you have to hope that they can contnue to dominate. We can switch to whomever takes the lead.


"Why would you believe that the logic board on a Mac is non-replaceable? It's as easily replaceable as in a PC."

No it's not. Your narrow mind is thinking only along the lines of physically taking it out and putting in another...that's not what i meant and you know it...You can obviously take one out and replace with another. But that's where the similarity ends....*APPLE DOESN'T SELL REPLACEMENTS FOR MAINBOARDS!!!....*the only way you can GET a replacement is to buy an old rusty one on ebay or buy yet another COMPUTER from Apple. I can go anywhere on the planet and choose from a selection of mainboards the same way you can choose underwear!


"You might want to check out some PC World benchmarks of Macs running Windows. Apple builds some of the fastest Windows capable machines on the market."

Some of the fastest? That's my point...the very fastest computer possible is ALWAYS a PC, because your hardware becomes outdated a month after your gear gets released to market... and your Macs gets more and more outdated as the year passes until the next models appear..And yeah, you're going to say that you can stick modules in to make it faster, but those boosts are modest as long as you stick with the same mainboad. The key to boosting PC performance is the mainboard..you improve it and your PC gets faster, even with the same chip in place. Two PCs can have the same CPUs but the one with the best board will most often be the faster. PC users have access to combinations of the best boards, the latest and fastest ram, the fastest harddrives, the best possible graphics cards....so our benchmarks climb all year long as new technology enters the market, while yours remains flatlined. While your macs improve yearly, our PCs improve daily. A Mac will never ever best a PC because the latest hardware is always inside ours.

Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
102. Mar 27, 2008 10:38 AM in response to: eMJay
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
I'm laughing at you now

Laugh all you want. It won't validate your point.

Of course it is! The war for the most powerful microchip has been raging for many years

Two years is a LONG time in the computer world. Moore's Law says the number of transistors on an integrated circuit doubles approximately every two years. (Performance actually doubles about every 18 months.)

Competition in the PC market pushed CPU specs outside the range of Apple's developers' capability to match it. It was only when Apple realised that the innovations of the PC market were leaving it behind that it embraced Intel to stay viable.

Yep. The G5 was superior to the P4, but when IBM could no longer deliver the goods, and Intel released their technologically superior Core platform, Apple switched to the newly superior architecture. (It could be argued they made the switch slightly prematurely, since the first Core Duos were outperformed in many ways by the last G5s, but realistically that was because Intel ran behind with the release of the 64 bit Core platform, and released a crippled 32 bit version to tide the market over.) Of course, OS X, was x86 compatible from day one. Apple had kept their options open. There is little doubt that they already have plans to implement in the event that someone releases a consumer grade chip with performance superior to that of Core technology.

Yes i can! By just swapping chips, boards and DIMMs!

Yes, I can change out the primary components in a Mac, too. Of course, it's typically more trouble than it's worth, considering the performance of the other components are also subject to performance improvement rates similar to components covered by Moore's Law. It's more cost effective to buy a new machine, and sell the old one (Macs tend to maintain resale value nicely.) or relegate the old one to server status or other secondary use.

the only way you can GET a replacement is to buy an old rusty one on ebay or buy yet another COMPUTER from Apple.

Incorrect again. It's certainly not as easy as ordering from NewEgg, but it's not difficult, either.

Some of the fastest? That's my point...the very fastest computer possible is ALWAYS a PC, because your hardware becomes outdated a month after your gear gets released to market

You probably should be aware that PCW hasn't tested the fastest Macs (i.e. Mac Pro with 2x quad core Xeon).

The key to boosting PC performance is the mainboard..you improve it and your PC gets faster, even with the same chip in place.

Upgrading the motherboard can improve performance. But rarely does such an upgrade offer the best performance boost per dollar spent. Upgrading RAM and HDDs both tend to offer bigger performance boosts for less money, and both can be done on Macs. In fact, I completed the upgrade of both within minutes of delivery of my MacBook. It took me longer to find my screwdriver than it took to upgrade the components.

the best possible graphics cards …

This is the single area where PCs have consistently out-shined Macs. That's why Macs have only recently become good (not great) gaming machines.

While your macs improve yearly …

Just a quick check reveals that four different revisions of the MacBook have been sold in the past 12 months. That seems a lot more like every three months than annually. Heck, since Leopard was released in late October 2007, there have been two major MacBook revisions. That's about one major revision every 2-3 months. Perhaps you should recheck your "yearly" claim.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 46 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
103. Mar 27, 2008 2:38 PM in response to: RastaMon
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple

RastaMon wrote:
'Laugh all you want. It won't validate your point.'
  • >
    My points could never be valid in your mind...you and I are used to different levels of hardware freedom...I'm making sure that PC users who are used to upgrading their gear know that a switch to a mac limits their options and takes away their freedom to upgrade in any direction they choose. Simply put, the Mac way threatens my freedom to upgrade as i choose to.
'Two years is a LONG time in the computer world. Moore's Law says the number of transistors on an integrated circuit doubles approximately every two years. (Performance actually doubles about every 18 months.)'
  • >
    Two years is a long time in the Mac World...we live in separate worlds with different choices available to us...i've got more choice, you've got less. Just because YOU and other Mac users are satisfied with having less choices than i do in hardware and upgrading doesn't mean that i should make the same stupid choice. The world benefits from this choice that i've made, only apple benefits from yours. Moore's law is the reason why AMD will eventually take the lead again. In case you haven't noticed, neither company has ever managed to dominate indefinitely...such is the nature of competition.
"Yep. The G5 was superior to the P4, but when IBM could no longer deliver the goods, and Intel released their technologically superior Core platform, Apple switched to the newly superior architecture. (It could be argued they made the switch slightly prematurely, since the first Core Duos were outperformed in many ways by the last G5s, but realistically that was because Intel ran behind with the release of the 64 bit Core platform, and released a crippled 32 bit version to tide the market over.) Of course, OS X, was x86 compatible from day one. Apple had kept their options open. There is little doubt that they already have plans to implement in the event that someone releases a consumer grade chip with performance superior to that of Core technology. "
  • >
    ??? G5 superior to P4...your G5s never came close to outperforming P4s in graphics..Only in Aps requiring more floating point. Furthermore AMD's XPs outperformed P4s for years! P4 was crap.
"Yes, I can change out the primary components in a Mac, too. Of course, it's typically more trouble than it's worth, considering the performance of the other components are also subject to performance improvement rates similar to components covered by Moore's Law. It's more cost effective to buy a new machine, and sell the old one (Macs tend to maintain resale value nicely.) or relegate the old one to server status or other secondary use."
  • >
    Primary components again... as predicted:^0 *
  • >
    yeah , keep trying to evade the mainboard issue, because you and i both know that you have NO answer to that. More cost effective to buy a new machine?? Only in the Mac world, dude. A PC user only needs to buy a mainboard with a suitable chip and ram to match the FSB and swap the old ones out . Presto, you've got a much faster system. And you can do it for hundreds less than the cost of a new PC and a save a thousand by avoiding a Mac, while still matching or exceeding the performance of Macs...You keep your display and all other peripherals instead of having to buy them all over again from Apple. And to lower costs even further, you could still sell the old parts too! If you don't need ultra high performance you can get a much cheaper deal using an AMD CPU and save hundreds more on the upgrade as well as pay less on your light bill due to AMD's power-saving features...

"Incorrect again. It's certainly not as easy as ordering from NewEgg, but it's not difficult, either."
  • >
    Yeah? PROVE IT!!! Show me one link to a site or a store that sells BRAND NEW Mac mainboards. There's no such thing. I can google up 100 links to forums with people trying to find a replacements for their ruined boards and getting their hearts broken when they realise that they have to fork over the cash to Apple yet again.

"You probably should be aware that PCW hasn't tested the fastest Macs (i.e. Mac Pro with 2x quad core Xeon)."

  • >
    So What. Systems with a top-end PC mainboard and exactly the same CPU and modular configurations will outperform it!

"Upgrading the motherboard can improve performance. But rarely does such an upgrade offer the best performance boost per dollar spent. Upgrading RAM and HDDs both tend to offer bigger performance boosts for less money, and both can be done on Macs. In fact, I completed the upgrade of both within minutes of delivery of my MacBook. It took me longer to find my screwdriver than it took to upgrade the components."
  • >
    Upgrading your HDDs and ram without upgrading your mainboard gets you very little...a ram upgrade only helps if you do alot of multitasking, multimedia and gaming...after a point there's no benefit at all and the CPU then becomes the bottleneck in most cases. The capacity of your mainboard to efficiently channel data limits any benefits derived from just upgrading ram and using another harddrive...each board has it's data transfer limits that are affected by numerous factors intrinsic to the boards design...For instance, a friend of mine bought a board that had performance degradation once he filled up his PCI Express slots. Newer system boards are designed to maximally use the latest hardware, are corrected for design errors and can squeeze more performance out of both old and new components....some new components can actually degrade performance when installed in older mainboards. Upgrading both CPU and mainboard will always guarantee a significant boost in performance because it will allow other components such as the HDD and graphics cards to work with greater efficiency and fewer system bottlenecks will exist. In any case, upgrading your CPU alone will always give you more performance benefits than upgrading the HDD and ram only but a mainboard upgrade maximises the CPU upgrade and increases your overall upgrade capacity.
"Just a quick check reveals that four different revisions of the MacBook have been sold in the past 12 months. That seems a lot more like every three months than annually. Heck, since Leopard was released in late October 2007, there have been two major MacBook revisions. That's about one major revision every 2-3 months. Perhaps you should recheck your "yearly" claim. "
  • >
    Your revisions don't make any real changes to the architecture of the mainboards, only to the components seated on them. That intrinsically limits the performance benefits. Mainboard design is far more dynamic and progressive in the PC market. New and improved designs are always available.
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
104. Mar 27, 2008 7:05 PM in response to: eMJay
Re: 10 Things We Hate About Apple
<shakes head and walks away laughing about eMJay's "knowledge," wondering if he's eight or nine>