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9 Replies Last post: May 20, 2008 4:04 PM by ImaPhake  
Click to view PCWorld's profile PCW News Bot 19,895 posts since
Aug 1, 2007
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May 16, 2008 1:50 AM

Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel

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Click to view dannysdailys's profile New Member 10 posts since
Apr 23, 2007
1. May 17, 2008 5:23 AM in response to: PCWorld
Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
OK, let me see if I have this right.

1080i takes a half frame every 1/30th of a second and displays a full progressive frame every 1/60th time a second. Fully more the twice the rate of human perception.

1080p takes a full frame every 1/30th then doubles it, thereby yielding an effective frame rate of 120 per second. Fully more they 4x's human perception.

120mghz doubles it again for an effective frame rate of 240 frames per second, fully more then 8x's human perception.

Now 240? Keep in mind folks, the material is written at 30 frames per second, human perception is around 25 and motion pictures in the theatres are at 28fps.

How does doubling the same frame, then doubling it again, then doubling is still again, help motion? IT DOESN'T!!!

I think the lowly 1080i at twice human perception is MORE then enough, don't you? When does this madness end.

Just another attempt to sell the same product to the same people over and over again. What crap...
Click to view coastie65's profile Old Hand 3,306 posts since
Apr 2, 2007
2. May 17, 2008 2:38 PM in response to: dannysdailys
Re: Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
Hey danny, I agree with trying to sell the same product to the same people. I mean, look at how many different versions of The Exorcist were ultimately released. I wonder how many people bought that thing over and over again for an addional minute or two of new footage each time. Now they are using the same formula more or less in a different area. coastie65


eMachines T5212.... Intel Pentium D 945 3.4Ghz..... evga 8600 GT 256 Mb PCI-E video card..... Realtec HD audio......2 Gb 533 Mhz DDR2 memory..... Lite on CD RW; DVD +R / RW DL optical drive...... Windows XP MCE 2005....... Antec Basiq 500w PSU......200 Gb PATA HDD
Click to view ImaPhake's profile Member 212 posts since
Sep 1, 2006
3. May 18, 2008 2:19 PM in response to: PCWorld
Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
Obviously, you guys aren't gamers or you would understand that a TV screen which can't keep up with what a game console/PC or other device puts out results in "screen tearing."

The screen will have a "tear" when an image is sent to it faster than the screen can completely render it -- the bottom of the screen is still rendering one frame while the top begins rendering the next frame. This doesn't just happen in games, either. I see it in video files on some monitors all the time; a distinct diagonal, flickering which is due to the monitor not being able to keep up.
Click to view ImaPhake's profile Member 212 posts since
Sep 1, 2006
4. May 18, 2008 2:20 PM in response to: PCWorld
Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
Click to view dannysdailys's profile New Member 10 posts since
Apr 23, 2007
5. May 19, 2008 4:05 AM in response to: PCWorld
Re: Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
"Obviously, you guys aren't gamers or you would understand that a TV screen which can't keep up with what a game console/PC or other device puts out results in "screen tearing."

Console games put run at 24 fps, even slower then motion pictures. 1080i runs at 60; and your point is??

Incidently, this article isn't talking about computer monitors, it's talking about televisions. Are you saying a 1080i TV can't keep up with 24 frames a second? What planet do you live on?

I believe your talking about super gaming computers that can put out 100's of frames per second and computer monitors that can't keep up. Which, I believe, would have to be one OLD monitor. Incidently, this article isn't talking about computer monitors, it's talking about televisions. Are you saying a 1080i TV can't keep up with 24 frames a second? What planet do you live on?

I believe your talking about super gaming computers that can put out 100's of frames per second and computer monitors that can't keep up. Which, I believe, would have to be one OLD monitor.
Click to view ImaPhake's profile Member 212 posts since
Sep 1, 2006
6. May 19, 2008 12:51 PM in response to: dannysdailys
Re: Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
I don't know what console you're using, but most consoles put out 60 fps. PCs these days are frequently hooked up to a television for gaming and often have to use v-sync to prevent screen tearing if the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate (60 Hz NTSC or 50 Hz PAL). A video game running at 24fps would be nearly unplayable.

And here's a forum discussion regarding screen tearing on the Xbox 360:

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=572937
Click to view coastie65's profile Old Hand 3,306 posts since
Apr 2, 2007
7. May 19, 2008 12:59 PM in response to: ImaPhake
Re: Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
Thanks for the bit of info on NTSC and PAL. I've been meaning to research that, but it ends up on the back burner. I had almost inadvertantly ordered a movie in PAL format and was wondering what the difference in format was. There is a third format that I am aware of, SEACAM, that is in Asia. Japan and S. Korea has since adpoted the NTSC format, but I don't know of any others. I would like to see everyone on a single format. Sure would make things easier and less frustrating. coastie65


eMachines T5212.... Intel Pentium D 945 3.4Ghz..... evga 8600 GT 256 Mb PCI-E video card..... Realtec HD audio......2 Gb 533 Mhz DDR2 memory..... Lite on CD RW; DVD +R / RW DL optical drive...... Windows XP MCE 2005....... Antec Basiq 500w PSU......200 Gb PATA HDD
Click to view dannysdailys's profile New Member 10 posts since
Apr 23, 2007
8. May 20, 2008 4:04 AM in response to: PCWorld
Re: Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
"don't know what console you're using, but most consoles put out 60 fps." Actually, it came from that very article you told us to read. That said, if there is such a thing as "screen tearing" and believe me, I've been in the game for over 20 years and have never heard of it, it would most probably be because of two factors.

Either you're trying to pump too many frames (which are mearly repeats of the same frame) into a monitor with a low response rate, or the algorithims are off. Meaning, the actual frame count of 24 to 30 of the source material, is being distorted by repeating it 200 times; which is more likely the problem.

If you're running a heavy metal gaming rig, you need the same in a gaming monitor. You'd never confuse my 3ms Viewsonic gaming monitors.

In TV, everything's an algorithim, since motion picture source is 28 frames, two have to be doubled to reach thirty. Different TV's do this in different ways. Until 28p sets hit the market, it'll stay that way.

As an aside, TV's are not meant to be gaming monitors (except for consoles) and never will. Even the 120mhz models never mention that. They're making false claims about action in movies. Have you ever seen studdering at the theatre? Thought not, it runs at a pathetic 28fps. I rest my case... By the way, and I don't mean this as a slight, how old are you? Like 19? The article were supposed to be talking about is how 240mgz is supposed to mean smoother action, IN MOVIES!
Click to view ImaPhake's profile Member 212 posts since
Sep 1, 2006
9. May 20, 2008 4:10 PM in response to: dannysdailys
Re: Samsung to Unveil 'Blue Phase' 240Hz LCD Panel
The fact that you've never heard of it simply means you are uninformed.

I'm 58 years old and have been dealing with computers and video since 1979. Screen tearing is a real phenomenon which, while most common in video gaming also exists when any device sends frame rates at a higher rate than the display's refresh rate -- regardless of whether it is a computer monitor or a television screen. The 24 fps in the first article relates to that country's standard refresh rate of 50 Hz and not necessarily what the console's game frames per second might be. In video software, you will often find settings related to PAL vs NTSC and frame rates of 24.97 (25 at 50 Hz) and 29.97 (30 at 60 Hz).

Screen tearing defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_tearing

Vsync defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_synchronization

Refresh rate defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refresh_rate

Pay particular note in the last link to this regarding displaying movie content on a TV:

"The combination of content production, playback-device, and display device processing may also give artifacts that are unnecessary. A display device producing a fixed 60frame/s rate cannot display a 24frame/s movie at an even, Judder-free rate. Usually, a 3:2 pulldown Judder#3:2_pulldown is used, giving a slight uneven movement."

"While common multisync CRT computer monitors have been capable of running at even multiples of 24 Hz since the early '90s, recent "120Hz" LCD displays have been produced for the purpose of having smoother, more fluid motion. As 120 is an even mutiple of 24, it is possible to present a 24frame/s sequence without Judder on a well-designed 120 Hz display. If the 120 Hz rate is produced by frame-doubling a 60frame/s 3:2 pulldown signal, the uneven motion could still be visible."

"50Hz" tv-sets (when fed with "50Hz" content) usually get a movie that is slightly faster than normal, avoiding any problems with uneven pulldown."

Notice that the Samsung 240HZ display is an even multiple of 24. This television claiming better display of action scenes is not hokum and is quite factual in how 240Hz will provide a better viewing experience in both movies and console gaming, whether they make the latter claim or not.

Case closed. Buh-bye.

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