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37 Replies Last post: May 29, 2007 3:31 PM by macaddict   Go to original post 1 2 3 Previous Next
Click to view ImaPhake's profile Member 219 posts since
Sep 1, 2006
15. May 7, 2007 7:09 PM in response to: PCWorld
Okay -- I see what you're saying.

Doesn't seem like much to gripe about though since it's only needed the very first time.
Typing a password twice seems to be in every Web sign-up page these days, so it's not like this is a unique problem (if tha't what you want to call it).

I don't mind losing the extra 4 seconds it took me to do that. :P
Click to view chefmitch's profile New Member 7 posts since
May 7, 2007
16. May 7, 2007 7:22 PM in response to: PCWorld
ImaPhake wrote:Okay -- I see what you're saying.


Doesn't seem like much to gripe about though since it's only needed the very first time.

Typing a password twice seems to be in every Web sign-up page these days, so it's not like this is a unique problem (if tha't what you want to call it).


I don't mind losing the extra 4 seconds it took me to do that. :P


My goal was only to try and point out some of the little things that I found in OS X that just made me think "why doesn't everyone do it this way".

I try not to get into the us vs. them / mac vs pc debate. If someone is interested I will happily let them know my preference but I don't feel the need to win by having someone else lose.

For my tastes, I prefer the Mac platform, but I have nothing against PCs.

BTW. I use both Macs and PCs. I own both Microsoft and Apple stock.
Click to view Rndmacts's profile New Member 28 posts since
Jul 31, 2006
17. May 7, 2007 8:12 PM in response to: PCWorld
Hate the marketing campaign
For one thing it is inacurate and Vasic yes a new installation witll bring up the UAC in Vista, that is because most software installations think they need to have higher user rights than is really necessary. This usually disappears completely after a week as the system learns your habits. The Apple ad is referring to the firewall and is inaccurate because it only questions once about allowing applications access the internet. All good firewalls do the same thing, once trained most people can forget about it as they quietly go to work protecting you. Apple would never let users know about vulnerabilities if it wasn't that some of their programs like iTunes and Quicktime also operate on Windows and that those type of occurances would hurt a lot more people than Apple owners.

The authors also have an error in their statement that no viruses and exploits were ever released into the wild, there have been several viruses but OSX is such a small target that not much damage was done. When you go after an OS where there are hundreds of millions of users versus one that only has a few million users, well you can see which one will make you notorious.

Apple ads are innovative, they have taken all the Truth in Advertising rules and said that by tongue in cheek comparison we can deceive the public into believing their product is more hip and cool than the stodgy PC. But if I want to play games, I am going to need the ability to run Windows, if I am going to want to do the widest range of business applications, I am going to need Windows. I am not musical so I don't need Garageband, Windows movie maker is sufficient for my needs, Vista's media centre supplements my PVR which is superior to TiVo in the US and is offered directly from my cable company here in Canada. It even supports HDTV and so does my PC. So when I acquire Microsofts new Home Server, I will have all the components found in your Apple computer and still have a few dollars in the bank to buy a few more games.
Click to view bofh2's profile New Member 2 posts since
May 8, 2007
18. May 8, 2007 2:54 AM in response to: PCWorld
10 Things We Love About Apple
Ummm, this is PC word? I realize that we all want to be warm and fuzzy but come on. Get some B**Ls for crying out loud.
Click to view Skunky's profile New Member 71 posts since
Jan 28, 2007
19. May 8, 2007 6:05 AM in response to: PCWorld
Sorry... I don't like plastic anything... cars, phones, watches, nothing.... gotta have my metal... Aluminum, Titanium, Silver, Platinum..

Polycarbonate is a stretch but I have learned to live with it.

I wish Apple would make an aluminum keyboard to go with the Mac Pro
Click to view kvguser's profile New Member 4 posts since
May 8, 2007
20. May 8, 2007 8:59 AM in response to: PCWorld
chefmitch wrote:

I was comparing the process of initially joining a wireless network. There was no mention of needing to continuously type in wireless passwords.


This is one example that, to me, proves that Apple programmers are more effective than some of their competitors.


Another example of how the little things make a big difference :


Setting up routers. If you set up an Apple router and create a wireless password it is automatically used to connect to the network. No need to type it in even one additional time. Pretty slick!


Setting up a non-Apple router means you need to type in the wireless password once in the router set up utility / browser and then 2 more times when connecting to the wireless network for the first time.


It's like the difference between TiVo software and some of it's competitors. They both get the job done, but the TiVo has so many small little touches that it is the Gold Standard in it's category.


You can tell when people really try and make something the best it can be.


(see the bolded above)

Wait a second - what you mean you "automatically" used to connect to the network?

You have to type the password both in the router *and *in the wireless connection settings on your Mac.

The only difference in this whole task between Mac OS and Windows is typing the password twice in the Windows PC wireless connection settings.

This is only to make sure you have typed it correctly. If you have to type the password only once, there is by many times bigger chance to mistype it. Then you will be getting crazy why your connection doesn't work ...

Somebody already pointed above, that almost all web-based registrations for setting up accounts require typing the password twice.
Registering to PC World online requires it too - as I have just confirmed with my registration.
Click to view vasic's profile New Member 7 posts since
May 7, 2007
21. May 8, 2007 9:09 AM in response to: PCWorld
Not quite the same
Again, nitpicking here, but since I'm not the first one, I'll go ahead.

There is a difference between entering a password twice when registering, and entering password when logging in. If you mistype your password when registering, you wouldn't know it, since it's hidden. Subsequently, you wouldn't be able to log in, since the system recorded a mistyped password. Therefore, they have to ask you twice, to make sure you didn't mistype. When you log into Windows, you don't have to type it twice. If you mistype, it will just ask you again (and again, and again) until you get it right (or exceed the max number of attempts). This should be the case with wireless network settings as well. There is absolutely no valid reason for having to type it twice.

Here's another example where Windows just gives you too much information (unnecessarily), and Mac just does its thing. When you plug in a USB memory device, Mac mounts it on your desktop. Icon shows up and you're ready to use. Windows will actually give you a prompt (something like 'USB storage device found...', etc). It will do the same thing (map a drive letter to it), and you will be able to use it; it just pops up this unnecessary message. I know at least three (elderly) people that always get confused by this 'error' message they're getting on their screen; they cannot connect the two events (sticking in the USB memory, message popping up 5 seconds later). This is obviously a minute nuance, but it shows the essence of these subtle differences between a system that reports dutifully on anything it does, and a system that quietly does its thing and steps out of the way.

Again, bigger point here is, all these arbitrary, unintuitive and illogical inconsistencies continue to drive home the same point of usability of a system.
Click to view chefmitch's profile New Member 7 posts since
May 7, 2007
22. May 8, 2007 9:12 AM in response to: PCWorld
kvguser wrote:

(see the bolded above)


Wait a second - what you mean you "automatically" used to connect to the network?


You have to type the password both in the router *and *in the wireless connection settings on your Mac.


The only difference in this whole task between Mac OS and Windows is typing the password twice in the Windows PC wireless connection settings.


This is only to make sure you have typed it correctly. If you have to type the password only once, there is by many times bigger chance to mistype it. Then you will be getting crazy why your connection doesn't work ...


Somebody already pointed above, that almost all web-based registrations for setting up accounts require typing the password twice.

Registering to PC World online requires it too - as I have just confirmed with my registration.


I stand by my original post: When setting up Apple Airport Extreme: You set up wireless security info in the set up utility and it AUTOMATICALLY makes the password available to the Aiport Connection Utility. So, you type in the password once during setup and voila - your Apple laptop then automatically connects to the wireless network. It is slick!

Second - there is a difference between setting up a password and entering a password. The example of registering to PC World is a great example - it makes perfect sense to ask the user to type the password in twice during registration (eliminate typing mistake errors) but it makes NO sense to have them type in the password twice during login! Think about it. Have you ever seen a web login (login, not registration) that asks for you type your password in twice? I haven't and if I did, I would wonder why the web desigers did it. This is the same idea as LOGGING in to a wireless network.
Click to view dmills21's profile New Member 4 posts since
May 7, 2007
23. May 8, 2007 10:02 AM in response to: PCWorld
I think the real debate here is why there is this big PC vs Mac fight. Or for that fact PC vs Mac vs Linux.

Like I said. It is all a personal preference and what brand you are loyal too. Mac users are so touchy about a PC user banging on a Mac or even if a Mac is talked about negatively from another Mac user.....My God! It is not like we are talking about your Mom here. There are positives to a Mac and there are negatives, just as there are to PC's....just as the article states.

The facts are that Apple has a long way to go to reach the level Windows is at....and I can guarantee that at that point, Apple will have the same problems Windows has. So in reality, Mac users should just stay quiet so this doesn't happen....because then it will be Windows users claiming how little viruses they have and blah, blah, blah.

I will say it again....It is all relative.
Click to view kellie's profile Community Manager 3,360 posts since
Jun 27, 2007
24. May 8, 2007 10:03 AM in response to: PCWorld
Re: 10 Things We Love About Apple
bofh2 wrote:Ummm, this is PC word? I realize that we all want to be warm and fuzzy but come on. Get some B**Ls for crying out loud.

Perhaps you would enjoy our companion story, 10 Things We Hate About Apple


Kellie Parker | Online Community Manager | PC World
Click to view kvguser's profile New Member 4 posts since
May 8, 2007
25. May 8, 2007 12:06 PM in response to: PCWorld
chefmitch wrote:

I stand by my original post: When setting up Apple Airport Extreme: You set up wireless security info in the set up utility and it AUTOMATICALLY makes the password available to the Aiport Connection Utility. So, you type in the password once during setup and voila - your Apple laptop then automatically connects to the wireless network. It is slick!


Second - there is a difference between setting up a password and entering a password. The example of registering to PC World is a great example - it makes perfect sense to ask the user to type the password in twice during registration (eliminate typing mistake errors) but it makes NO sense to have them type in the password twice during login! Think about it. Have you ever seen a web login (login, not registration) that asks for you type your password in twice? I haven't and if I did, I would wonder why the web desigers did it. This is the same idea as LOGGING in to a wireless network.


Wow!

Wait a second, my friend, I don't understand something here: if you choose the password yourself, at the moment of the setup, how does your Mac know WHICH router to connect to?

What if there is another, same type of router in your house/apartment, or even more dangerous - in your neighbors house/apartment?

It is very interesting for me to find how is this whole thing set up.
Click to view gundark's profile New Member 58 posts since
Aug 18, 2006
26. May 8, 2007 2:19 PM in response to: PCWorld
"Cottage Industry of Cool" is actually one of the things I HATE about Macs.

Everybody and their brother is making some chintzy little thing-a-ma-jig for your iBook, iPod, or iWidget. I've got no problem with people wanting to personalize their stuff, but much of the add-on stuff is real junk.

You know the market is reaching saturation when you find someone selling home-made knitted iPod holsters at the county fair...and people actually BUY them.
:shock:
Click to view vasic's profile New Member 7 posts since
May 7, 2007
27. May 8, 2007 2:20 PM in response to: PCWorld
It is actually very simple, intuitive and quite logical
From the manual available publicly on Apple's support site (a few clicks away), one can find out that when you initiate your 'Airport Utility' software (Available for Windows, too), it will search for all available Airport Extreme or Airport Express (or just plain old Airport) access points/routers. You will know which to select to configure by the default network name which will be the last six hex values of your router's MAC address. (label on the bottom) If you accidentally select an already configured SSID, it won't let you in without a password (makes sense, doesn't it?). On a Mac, the 'Airport Utility' will guide you through the process and, when you choose a password (WEP/WPA/WPA2), the utility will automatically save this password into your Mac's network settings, so you don't have to put it separately.

Now, I don't have Airport base station (D-link was all I could afford). It took me all of 120 seconds to find this information online. Aren't we all becoming a bit too lazy...?
Click to view kvguser's profile New Member 4 posts since
May 8, 2007
28. May 8, 2007 3:12 PM in response to: PCWorld
Re: It is actually very simple, intuitive and quite logical
vasic wrote:From the manual available publicly on Apple's support site (a few clicks away), one can find out that when you initiate your 'Airport Utility' software (Available for Windows, too), it will search for all available Airport Extreme or Airport Express (or just plain old Airport) access points/routers. You will know which to select to configure by the default network name which will be the last six hex values of your router's MAC address. (label on the bottom) If you accidentally select an already configured SSID, it won't let you in without a password (makes sense, doesn't it?). On a Mac, the 'Airport Utility' will guide you through the process and, when you choose a password (WEP/WPA/WPA2), the utility will automatically save this password into your Mac's network settings, so you don't have to put it separately.


Now, I don't have Airport base station (D-link was all I could afford). It took me all of 120 seconds to find this information online. Aren't we all becoming a bit too lazy...?


Wow wow!

So the Airport Extreme/Express router is broadcasting its MAC address as a SSID ?!?!?

So if I power on my new (just out-of-the-box) Airport Extreme/Express router, then ANYONE with Airport utility in the range of the router and who "gets" to see the router BEFORE me in their Airport utility, will be able to setup the password for the router ?!?!?!

Hijack my router? So easily?

Oh my god ... this is the so legendary Apple "security" ???

I can't believe it !!
Click to view vasic's profile New Member 7 posts since
May 7, 2007
29. May 8, 2007 3:25 PM in response to: PCWorld
You can't be serious...
...commenting about this as a serious security issue...??? As opposed to other brands of routers?? When you take any wireless router out of the box, it is broadcasting its SSID in plain sight to everyone, until you go in and change its security settings. How is this any different from Apple? That the SSID contains a few characters from its MAC address is the only difference (as opposed to 'Linksys', or 'Netgear'). I cannot see how some seemingly random hex string can be a security issue. Once you set the password (and change your network's name), you're pretty much locked down (as much as the underlying technology allows). Not to mention that in order to configure Apple's Airport products, you need to have that Airport Utility (and you'll need know that you need it in order to do this); other brands can be configured using web browser. Their 'Admin' passwords are usually 'admin', 'password' or blank!

I live in a Manhattan high-rise. At any given time, I can see anywhere between 15 and 25 WiFi networks on my MacBook. A good third of them is usually unprotected. You can always easily spot them by their names: Linksys, Netgear, D-link, Default... I could have easily hijacked all those in minutes, if not seconds. Implying that there is some serious security issue with a brand that pretty much does the same as others makes little sense.

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