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17 Replies Last post: Apr 27, 2008 11:42 AM by jonrey   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view PCWorld's profile PCW News Bot 20,557 posts since
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Feb 19, 2008 12:40 AM

Toshiba abandons HD DVD

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Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
1. Feb 19, 2008 2:27 AM in response to: PCWorld
Toshiba abandons HD DVD
It's about time they stopped wasting shareholders' money. They never really stood a chance this time around. It's clear now that they should have jointly produced the next generation disc with Sony when the proposal was put forward a few year ago. This time they got burnt. The early adopters that wouldn't listen now have to wake up to find that they have a mini museum in their living rooms.
Click to view juveglc's profile New Member 13 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
2. Feb 19, 2008 7:41 AM in response to: PCWorld
Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
I am happy that the war is over. I have been an HD DVD Supported from the start, even before HD DVD had officialy been released to the market. I am sad that I will not be able to afford a Blu-Ray disc player any time soon. Having both formats was driving prices down on both ends. Format conflicts are good to drive prices to a reasonable level. In the last two years, I have seen Blu-Ray players go from $800 to $399 because of their competition. Now that HD DVD is officialy phasing out of existance, we will not see any further price drops any time soon on BD. Only good news for HD DVD owners such as myself is that now, we will be able to get movies in HD DVD at a discounted price. Already, on line retailers are selling movies for as little as $11 with free shipping, and a lot of these movies, specialy from Universal Pictures, will take a while before they find their way to BD. So stock up on those HD DVDs, and don't buy a Blu-Ray disc player until the prices are reasonable, or get a PS3.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
3. Feb 19, 2008 8:09 AM in response to: juveglc
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD

Once again think before you act. All the titles that you bought in the discarded format will be made available in BD soon enough. The price drops will probably slow as you predicted, but it will continue to drop once HDTV becomes fully established everywhere. The number of HD-DVD players and HD-DVD movie titles on the planet is now fixed forever. Your collection of HD-DVD titles are only useful as long as your machine continues to function. All optical devices fail eventually, more so when they are first generation devices. At that point you will be left with a large collection of shiny plastic discs since you don't have the option of getting a replacement device. It's better to just put that money aside and wait for the BD prices to fall.
Click to view juveglc's profile New Member 13 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
4. Feb 19, 2008 9:04 AM in response to: eMJay
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
I see what you are saying, but if all electronic devices fail eventually... Won't my BD player fail as well. When LaserDiscs came out, they were the step up from VHS. When DVD came out, I knew that was the format to go, but there were movies that were not coming out in DVD any time soon. I got a Laser Disc Player and bought the Star Wars Trilogy and the Back to the Future movies for it amongst many others that still hadn't made their way to DVD. My Laserdisc player still works, and I still have movies in Laserdisc that have not come out on DVD.

My point is, that for now, I will get HD DVD movies for a lot less and for the same 1080P resolution that Blu-Ray offers. Now, if a movie is already out on Blu-Ray, then I won't get it on HD DVD, I'll just wait till I can afford a BD player. But I am not going to fork out $400 plus for a player. Sony has control of the next gen market now, and they will not be generous with their consumers and drop the price any time soon. The only reason the PS3 went down in price is because it had competiotion, the 360. The Wii is a completely different console, so it would not even be considered a competitor, it stands on it's own little classification.

With luck, my HD DVD player will live as long as my Panasonic Laserdisc player has, and I will continue to enjoy 1080P movies with it and BD (When it becomes affordable) until the next generation of optical media either is released or becomes obsolete to the next best thechnology, witch may not require us to purchase any optical discs at all.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
5. Feb 19, 2008 9:41 AM in response to: juveglc
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
You have to remember that Laser disc technology is based on infrared laser technology (like CDs). Those operate at a lower level of precision. The more you increase the level of precision required to operate a machine the more likely you are to suffer from wear and tear, since it will take less wear and tear to throw off a higher precision machine. I'm sure you don't use your laser disc player very regularly as that would have pushed your device past it's operating life-span a long time ago. Add to the mix the fact that there was competition between the rival formats - this always leads to cutting corners at some level, most often at the components level. This means that first generation devices will be guaranteed to have manufacturing and mechanical defects that were not predicted or envisioned.These defect will likely affect the life of the product in the long term, no matter how well the machine appears to run now. Something as simple as a single gear wearing down or flash memory failure can render your device unusable. Operating temperatures can irreversibly alter the chemical nature of internal components.The cooling fan is guaranteed to fail. These are just a few considerations, and this is true for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray devices. It did take time for many older movies to make it to DVD, but that was because demand for them wasn't as great as contemporary films of the day and it required that costly electronic editing be carried out to digitize them and to bring these older films to the quality worthy of a DVD. This doesn't actually apply to movies already created in HD-DVD format. The raw digital data used to create the compressed data stored on the HD-DVD is already there lying around,and in most cases won't even need to be re-encoded since both formats support the same compression techniques (MPEG-4, MPEG-2, VC-1 etc). Transfering old film to HD format may present a problem since the raw data for encoding to high def must at least be in 1080p and additional editing will again be required to 'clean up' defects. It's up to you to determine how you will spend your money, but just know that you do so with some degree of risk-taking. Buying more movies for your HD-DVD device means that you will likely use it more often and consequently push it ever faster towards the end of it's operating lifespan.
Click to view juveglc's profile New Member 13 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
6. Feb 19, 2008 10:42 AM in response to: eMJay
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
True, but wouldn't that be the case as well if I buy a BD player with an ever growing selection of movies? Wouldn't I also reduce the life expectancy on that player as well? In any case, I already oredered the LG dual-format drive for my PC. I will not use this to play anything to my TV, this is just for school purposes and image captures for my school projects. But when my HD DVD player goes out, I can always use this drive as an alternative. Besides, if Sony does drop it's prices to where the more average consumer can make the transition to HD, then I will be able to afford to buy one by the end of the year, meaning that I would reduce the use of my HD DVD player, much like it happened with my Lasrdisc back in the day, expanding it's life span. But if BD players continues charging the same price by year's end...? Then it won't see a dime from me and I will continue to enjoy my HD DVDs and upscaled movies on my HD DVD player.

At this point, when my HD DVD player finally dies within the next couple of years, I can always take it to Best Buy as with other discontinued items I have bought there and get a store credit because of my replacement plan. Perhaps that will offset the price on a BD Player or a PS3. And I will still be able to play my movies on through my PC, witch by that time I would have likely upgraded to a newer PC and retired my current one to entertainment use out in the living room connected via HDMI to my HDTV.

Any way you put it, I am not buying a BD Player until the price is reasonable.

Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
7. Feb 19, 2008 11:19 AM in response to: juveglc
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
Yes, what I said is also true of current BD drives. The smart thing would be to wait until cheaper second generation BD drives make an appearance as you have just said. Buying a combo drive changes your equation immensely. The build standards of the combo drives tend to be higher than that used in the consumer electronics version of these devices. In addition, having the drive in your computer instead of a set-box allows you to move the drive to another computer if parts external to it fail to operate. You have more control over the operating environment as you can change the cooling fans, CPU, memory etc if anything fails. Remember that these new devices are really just computers with CPUs and memory just like modern PCs, and if anything happens, for instance, to the CPU fan in these HD-DVD or BD devices, it's toast. You now have the option of extending the life of your devices so buying HD-DVDs in your case can make economic sense. I own a bluray burner for data storage, but that's as much as i'm going to spend until the price is favorable and i'm confident that i can rely on what's coming off the production lines.
Click to view Kitrax's profile New Member 61 posts since
Oct 24, 2006
8. Feb 19, 2008 11:33 AM in response to: PCWorld
Re: Toshiba abandons HD DVD
Moving away from the laserdisk discussion...

Who here thinks Sony will once again try to pull off another Root-Kit scheme now that BR has won. I'm glad the "war" is over...but why did it have to be Sony. I hope there is an ever present eye watching Sony's actions, waiting for the day that they slip.
Click to view juveglc's profile New Member 13 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
9. Feb 19, 2008 11:32 AM in response to: eMJay
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
I agree with your assesment. And since I graduate school in December, I will not really need my dual format drive for school anymore and will be able to move that device out to my livingroom for viewing purposes. Hopefuly by then BD media will have dropped down in price and released some of the older, but more popular titles like Back to the Future and Star Wars. I look forward to that day.
Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
10. Feb 19, 2008 11:46 AM in response to: juveglc
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
I look forward to that day as well. I think the movie industry owes us that much after this fiasco.
Click to view juveglc's profile New Member 13 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
11. Feb 19, 2008 11:54 AM in response to: Kitrax
Re: Toshiba abandons HD DVD

Kitrax. I too don't like the fact that Sony has won the format war. And without competition, they'll have more freedom to do what ever they want. Let's hope that someone does keep a close eye on them and keep them from taking advantage of the consumers. But seeing how things are going, I doubt anyone really cares as long as they too are making money out of this. Competition was the key for control in price and technology developement. But now... What's going to happen?

Let's hope that the next step has everything to do with truely having technology move forward and not about money and power. Competitors need to take the best features of each other's tech and implemented unto a better and more affordable product. When companies share the development cost it often leads to more affordable products that can be sold at a massive scale and increase revenue.

Let's hope Sony, Toshiba, and other corporations put their pride aside and work together in the future.

Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
12. Feb 19, 2008 12:40 PM in response to: Kitrax
Re: Toshiba abandons HD DVD

That's an interesting question. Rootkits came about simply because there was no intrinsic DRM built into CDs. A totally bad idea to use it and worse, hide it. BD does have several layers of DRM : AACS, BD- ROM mark and BD.+ The last one is basically a virtual machine which would control how and where the data goes. I think the BD virtual machine also controls decryption at some level. The specs are only available to manufacturers though. Virtual machines aren't installed per say; they just run when the data is being use and are discarded afterwards, unlike rootkits. But if there's anything sinister about BD, it'll be found in the BD+ aspect of it's DRM. They built alot of control into it and made it dynamic so that they can halt pirating by plugging holes used to gain pirated material by updating the DRM on future media. If a method is found to get the data, they plug it and it can't be used to get data from future discs.
Click to view juveglc's profile New Member 13 posts since
Feb 19, 2008
13. Mar 28, 2008 9:27 AM in response to: eMJay
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD

Well, I took my own advise. The only way I would pay that much for a Blu-Ray disc player was if it was a PS3. Got it, love it, happy with it. DR Discs look great on it.

That is all.

Click to view eMJay's profile New Member 64 posts since
Aug 13, 2006
14. Mar 28, 2008 10:21 AM in response to: juveglc
Re: Toshiba Abandons HD DVD
Glad to hear it.

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