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14 Replies Last post: Mar 7, 2008 7:51 PM by RastaMon  
Click to view KKovac's profile New Member 15 posts since
Mar 3, 2008
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Mar 3, 2008 6:41 PM

Looking to Buy a Mac Pro

I know this is a PC based website. But I was looking into buying a Mac Pro because Im a photography and also my buddies and me record some music sometimes. But im also into gaming. I didnt know if the Intel Xeon processor was a good proceesor for gaming. So if you could help me out. That would be great.

-Ken
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Click to view jbking's profile Member 967 posts since
Aug 29, 2006
1. Mar 3, 2008 9:34 PM in response to: KKovac
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro

The Xeon processor should be good for gaming though it is somewhat of a different class of processor as they tend to be found in servers rather than desktops or laptops. By server, I mean those that handle websites, databases, etc. so their processors tend to be pretty powerful. I would ponder if you'll use Parallels or Bootcamp to get Windows onto the system as most PC games aren't designed for the Mac OS, IIRC.

JB


Home Desktop: VoodooPC Hexx. AMD Athlon FX-60, 2 GB RAM, 2 x 250 GB HD, 7900 GTX video card. Home Laptop: HP dv4000, Pentium M, 2 GB RAM, 80 GB HD, ATi 700 Radeon Mobility
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
2. Mar 4, 2008 5:23 AM in response to: KKovac
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
Can you be more specific about your needs?

Are you going to be using Photoshop day in and day out (Mac Pro, iMac or MacBook Pro)? Or do you just need to remove red-eye from a few photos (any Mac)? Are you a hard core gamer (MacBook Pro), or do you just like to play Call of Duty 2 occasionally (any new Mac)? The Mac Pro is a powerful workhorse, and far more machine than the average person needs. It's not designed for gaming, though.

If gaming is your number one priority, a Mac may not be your best choice. However, the MBP does have a video card well suited for gaming, even if it's not a monster gaming machine, so if you need a gaming machine that does other things well, too, it is definitely worth a look.

If at all possible, go to an Apple store where you can play around with the different models.
Click to view VladTheImpaler1990's profile Enthusiast 753 posts since
Jun 4, 2007
3. Mar 4, 2008 1:54 AM in response to: KKovac
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro

Well what games are you going to play?

Vlad

Click to view AuroraDizon's profile Member Moderators 4,242 posts since
Jul 30, 2006
5. Mar 4, 2008 4:18 PM in response to: KKovac
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
For your uses I would suggest a mac. As stated previously go visit an Apple Store. If your worried about having Windows you can always bootcamp it.


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Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
6. Mar 5, 2008 2:58 AM in response to: KKovac
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
The problem with gaming on Macs isn't due to the operating system, but rather the video cards. The Mac Pro can be configured with some pretty powerful video cards, but they are not designed for gaming. The MBP is much better equipped for that purpose, and will run PS CS3 very well. I don't know how graphics intensive Flight Simulator X is. If you have a copy, I recommend taking it with you to an Apple store. Try out different models.
Click to view smax013's profile Old Hand 3,913 posts since
Jan 28, 2007
7. Mar 6, 2008 11:08 PM in response to: RastaMon
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
RastaMon wrote:
The problem with gaming on Macs isn't due to the operating system, but rather the video cards. The Mac Pro can be configured with some pretty powerful video cards, but they are not designed for gaming. The MBP is much better equipped for that purpose, and will run PS CS3 very well. I don't know how graphics intensive Flight Simulator X is. If you have a copy, I recommend taking it with you to an Apple store. Try out different models.

Actually, I believe that most of the cards available for the Mac Pro will run games just fine. The only graphics card that I am aware of that Apple offers for the Mac Pro that is NOT considered a "gaming" style card is the nVidia Quardo FX 5600. Both the ATI Radeon HD XT 256 MB (standard card for a Mac Pro) and the nVidia GeForce 8800 GT 512 MB are both "gaming" card, not "workstation" style cards. As such, either of those card will handle some fairly high level games and should easily handle Flight Simulator X.

A Mac Pro still might be overkill potentially unless you are doing some SERIOUS Photoshop work. If you are doing professional, heavy-duty Photoshop work, then a Mac Pro might be worth it.

Regardless, if Flight Simulator is the most advanced game you are playing, then a Mac Pro should be fine for that type of gaming. It should also do rather well for more "advanced" games. I will note, however, that if you primary goal is gaming and everything else is a distant second in terms of use, then a Mac is likely not the best choice and you should likely go with a Windoze PeeCee. You will have a LOT more choices and options for gaming with a Windoze computer.


[soapbox] Backup good...no backup bad!! [/soap box]
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
8. Mar 7, 2008 9:39 AM in response to: smax013
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
Actually, I believe that most of the cards available for the Mac Pro will run games just fine.

Personally I don't game enough to really know. My post was based on the general consensus among gamers (and a developer or two) on a different Mac forum. They pretty consistently recommend the MBP over the MP for serious Mac (or Bootcamp) gaming. For what little gaming I do (highly unlikely to play the latest, greatest version of any game), I can get away with using any new Mac.

If portability is not important, I think the OP would get the best performance per dollar from an iMac, which has the benefits of a dedicated video card, processing power comparable to the MBP, and does not suffer the limitations of a laptop display, which would be more apparent to heavy Photoshop users. It does have the drawbacks of poor expandability compared to the MacPro, and lacks the MBP's ExpressCard slot, which could be used to connect an external drive via eSATA. It does, however, have the FireWire 800 port (not available on the MacBook or the Mac mini), which still offers excellent, albeit inferior to eSATA, bandwidth for external devices.
Click to view smax013's profile Old Hand 3,913 posts since
Jan 28, 2007
9. Mar 7, 2008 3:12 PM in response to: RastaMon
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
RastaMon wrote:

Personally I don't game enough to really know. My post was based on the general consensus among gamers (and a developer or two) on a different Mac forum. They pretty consistently recommend the MBP over the MP for serious Mac (or Bootcamp) gaming. For what little gaming I do (highly unlikely to play the latest, greatest version of any game), I can get away with using any new Mac.

If portability is not important, I think the OP would get the best performance per dollar from an iMac, which has the benefits of a dedicated video card, processing power comparable to the MBP, and does not suffer the limitations of a laptop display, which would be more apparent to heavy Photoshop users. It does have the drawbacks of poor expandability compared to the MacPro, and lacks the MBP's ExpressCard slot, which could be used to connect an external drive via eSATA. It does, however, have the FireWire 800 port (not available on the MacBook or the Mac mini), which still offers excellent, albeit inferior to eSATA, bandwidth for external devices.

My guess is that that recommendation is more based upon the fact that the Mac Pro does not really gain you much (if anything) in gaming performance over the MacBook Pro, but costs significantly more...not because the Mac Pro is a poor gaming platform. In otherwords, why spend more than $3000 for a Mac Pro (with monitor) compared to a $2500 for a MBP (you would want the upper end 15" at a minimum for the "beefier" graphics card for gaming purposes) when the cheaper computer will likely do just as well for gaming. This all assumes that gaming is the only purpose or at least primary purpose by a wide margin. Frankly, if that is the case, then I would likely recommend NOT going with a Mac at all (as much as that pains me). You can get MUCH more bang for your buck with a Windoze computer for gaming purposes (or even just get a gaming console like a PS3 or Xbox 360 or Wii).

The whole picture changes is the primary use is for Photoshop...especially, heavily duty, professional Photoshop use. If the OP is using Photoshop on large picture files doing a LOT of filters or other big time manipulations, then a Mac Pro can REALLY pay off. The ability to have butt loads of memory is the first big benefit. But, then there is the tons of cores that you can get...I am pretty sure that Photoshop can fully take advantage of multiple cores. And then there is the ability to drive multiple 30" displays if you want/need.

I would agree that an iMac might be a good choice...if the Photoshop use is not off the scale. The more intensive the Photoshop use, the more likely a Mac Pro might be the better choice. But, if the Photoshop use is light to "average" in level, then an iMac might work rather well (ignoring for the moment the glossy screen which could be a major pain in the rear in some situations). And an iMac will be largely very similar in performance gaming wise to a MBP.


[soapbox] Backup good...no backup bad!! [/soap box]
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
10. Mar 7, 2008 7:04 PM in response to: smax013
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
I was wrong about the MBP's gaming performance. I'm confident it has even improved since the GeForce 8800 GT was offered as an option earlier this year.

And an iMac will be largely very similar in performance gaming wise to a MBP.

According to this comparison they are comparable, but the MBP is, overall, slightly better than the high end iMac. Note that the current iMac with either the Radeon HD 2400 GT or the Radeon HD 2600 Pro generally has worse gaming performance than the previous version with the optional GeForce 7600 GT.

If the OP is using Photoshop on large picture files doing a LOT of filters or other big time manipulations, then a Mac Pro can REALLY pay off.

Here's a comparison that uses PS CS3 as part of the benchmarking. The Mac Pro doesn't perform that much better than the iMac or MBP, but there is only 1 GiB of RAM in each machine, so the results have to be taken with a grain of salt. Still, considering that in the benchmark tests that specifically tested multiprocessing capabilities the MP trounced the iMac and the MBP, I have to wonder how effectively Photoshop utilizes the additional cores in the Mac Pro. It's unfortunate that they didn't test with realistic amounts of RAM.
Click to view smax013's profile Old Hand 3,913 posts since
Jan 28, 2007
11. Mar 7, 2008 7:22 PM in response to: RastaMon
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
RastaMon wrote:
It's unfortunate that they didn't test with realistic amounts of RAM.

I agree...RAM can have a BIG effect on Photoshop performance if doing a lot of filters or major manipulations. Photoshop gets a LOT slower if it has to go to a swap file.


[soapbox] Backup good...no backup bad!! [/soap box]
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
12. Mar 7, 2008 7:26 PM in response to: smax013
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
Photoshop gets a LOT slower if it has to go to a swap file.

It should have biased the test in favor of the machine(s) with the faster hard drive (not just the fastest spindle speed).
Click to view smax013's profile Old Hand 3,913 posts since
Jan 28, 2007
13. Mar 7, 2008 7:33 PM in response to: RastaMon
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
RastaMon wrote:

According to this comparison they are comparable, but the MBP is, overall, slightly better than the high end iMac. Note that the current iMac with either the Radeon HD 2400 GT or the Radeon HD 2600 Pro generally has worse gaming performance than the previous version with the optional GeForce 7600 GT.

I will note that I said similar. And I would argue that the link your provided bares that out...especially when you compare the 2.4 GHz iMac to the only MBP in the comparison. In most of the tests, there results are very similar.

I will also note that the comparison shows that a Mac Pro goes from being in the same basic range gaming wise with the older nVidia GeForce 7300 GT (which is not longer offered) to smoking the iMac and MBP when the Mac Pro is equipped with a Radeon X1900 XT (also no longer offered). I am guessing that a new Mac Pro with a nVidia GeForce 8800 GT will smoke those older Mac Pros. The point is that these are some serious gaming cards and it will show in playing games.

I will still stand by my statement that if gaming in the priority, then most likely a person will be better suited with a Windoze computer.


[soapbox] Backup good...no backup bad!! [/soap box]
Click to view RastaMon's profile Member 393 posts since
Sep 10, 2007
14. Mar 7, 2008 7:51 PM in response to: smax013
Re: Looking to Buy a Mac Pro
I will also note that the comparison shows that a Mac Pro goes from being in the same basic range gaming wise with the older nVidia GeForce 7300 GT (which is not longer offered) to smoking the iMac and MBP when the Mac Pro is equipped with a Radeon X1900 XT (also no longer offered). I am guessing that a new Mac Pro with a nVidia GeForce 8800 GT will smoke those older Mac Pros.

Yes, that's what I said, right after I said:

I was wrong about the MBP's gaming performance.

Are you getting too tired to read thoroughly, or are you just gloating?

:D :D :D

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