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PCWorld

16,060 posts since
Aug 1, 2007

Feb 27, 2008 10:00 PM

$200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

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freedom

5 posts since
Feb 27, 2008

1. Feb 27, 2008 11:36 PM

in response to: PCWorld

$200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

freespire or linspire by any other name is a piece of crap, that being said, once these folks are introduced to linux and hit the forums on the net they will find that theres hundreds of choices when it comes to linux, they can if they choose try and use what works for them, they're not stuck with one operating system like the would be with windows, thats worth 200 bucks right there, and what do you mean you couldn't test the computers, cause your software only works with windows boxes, what were you thinking ?

Janvl

6 posts since
Feb 28, 2008

2. Feb 28, 2008 4:27 AM

in response to: PCWorld

$200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

This is the worst review I have read in years. I have windows- and linux-machine at home and my wife jumps between them, is absolutely uninterested which OS, just uses OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc. on both hardly noticing the difference.
Has this "journalist" any idea about IT? to me it does not seem so.
These machines are cheap, a bargain BUT it is not windows. That should be made more clear to the customers, that would be fair, but who is fair in business?

Kilme

85 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

3. Feb 28, 2008 5:36 AM

in response to: PCWorld

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

Like the article says, the kind of people that shop at Sears and Wal-mart are not the kind of people that would understand Linux. In fact, even if I were to buy a PC from a retail store (which I never would, since building is much cheaper and better), I would never, ever, go to a place like Wal-mart. That's what Best Buy or Circuit City are for, although they'll try and strongarm you into buying more stuff. If someone really wants a cheap PC like that, without having to worry about Linux, they could buy the one, get the rebate, and spend the rebate on a copy of Windows XP.

I run Ubuntu on a laptop at home. It's fun to mess with, but I prefer XP for doing any actual work. I don't think the average computer user is ready for it yet. Maybe in a decade or so, when the average user isn't so computer illiterate (I don't mean that as an insult, but it's the truth).

Athlon X2 5000 BE 3.1GHz, Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro, Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 AM2+, MSI 8600GTS 256MB GDDR3, Corsair XMS2 2GB DDR2 800, OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU

Janvl

6 posts since
Feb 28, 2008

4. Feb 28, 2008 6:13 AM

in response to: Kilme

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

Maybe there is a diffence between the USA and Europe but in Germany Linux is a steadily growing phenomena.

This is because it is perfectly usable for average computertasks. In Holland the use of FOSS is even promoted

by the governement for all things considering governemental businesss.

Now I know changing is difficult but it has become far more easy since the last few years and if I consider

that my wife who is not at all interested in OS's even says that the linuxbox more reliable, has less problems with

all these antivirus, antimalware etc. etc. then I guess it is ready for the average user.

The category of people having trouble with linux are those that think themself to be a specialist by knowing how

to point and click in Windows and having no idea of real OS's with permissions like RWED, because due to

a greater security you must know what you are doing, not just doubleclicking setup.exe and brainless clicking

on Yes a dozen times.

And $200,- really is a bargain for a simple usable PC. Even if you might want to pay an extra $15,- for a better keyboard.

chipbennett

79 posts since
Oct 5, 2007

5. Feb 28, 2008 7:41 AM

in response to: Kilme

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

I am an ex-Windows refugee, living comfortably in the Linux world and using Kubuntu. I got my feet wet a year ago, dual-booting my older XP laptop with Ubuntu. A few months ago, I eliminated the safety net, giving my wife the XP laptop, and buying a Dell*buntu laptop for myself. (I promptly installed KDE, finding for my own needs/tastes to prefer it to GNOME.) Thus far, I have found only one thing for which I still require a Windows machine: programming my Logitech Harmony 880 universal remote. (And even that has work-arounds.) I am perfectly happy - and fully productive - using KDEPIM, Pidgin, Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Amarok, etc.

I do not understand the prevalent belief that Linux is not ready for "average" computer users. Granted, I will never get my parents to switch to Linux. They have used Windows for as long as they have been computer users; they are also retired, and don't care to spend their time learning a new OS or new applications.

That said, I don't believe my parents to exemplify "average" computer users. My wife better fits that description. Ninety percent of her computer time is spent in the browser - including web mail - and instant messaging. A very small percentage of her time is spent in office software. She is just as comfortable using Firefox as she is using Internet Explorer. She also uses OpenOffice.org without difficulty, for her word-processing needs.

In her case, the operating system underneath these applications does not matter at all. In fact, while we were out of town with only my laptop, she had no problems whatsoever working in Kubuntu.

She is the average computer user - and Linux is ready for her.

That said, I still don't believe that the Linux community at-large is ready for the "average" computer user. It is getting better, but a large gap still exists between the world of terminology such as bash/vim/grep/apt-get/etc. and the world of those who still sometimes confuse MS Windows and MS Office.

So, yes, some education is still necessary, but the "average" computer user is capable of receiving that education. Many in the at-large Linux community are also becoming better-educated in how to communicate with non-native Linux users.

Sometimes, I think our standards are just too low. My daughter will be raised to be OS-independent. She will know both Windows and Linux, and thus will have true choice.

Dell*buntu Inspiron 1420n, running Kubuntu 7.10

S3Indiana

2 posts since
Feb 28, 2008

6. Feb 28, 2008 7:52 AM

in response to: PCWorld

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

I've used Freespire on a number of desktops and laptops on a daily basis w/o any issue. How is Freespire less windows friendly when it operates more like windows (not MAC-like)? BTW CNR.com is Beta software, so one would expect issues until final release...

rtfire1

201 posts since
Jan 24, 2008

7. Feb 28, 2008 8:45 AM

in response to: PCWorld

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

I am taking the first steps in to going linux. I have to say that it is a great os I am hoping at some point to dump the ms chains. one thing I hope that will happen soon is that there will be a directx for linux so I can play my many pc games. but a $200 pc is a great deal with any os.

Kilme

85 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

8. Feb 28, 2008 8:46 AM

in response to: chipbennett

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

If you're just running Firefox and OpenOffice, then yes, Linux is just fine for most people. When I say the average computer user isn't ready for Linux, I don't mean they can't operate it, but that they can't do what they're used to. If someone wants to install software or hardware that isn't compatible, or doesn't have Linux drivers, there's usually some work looming ahead in the console. I'm sure most Windows users wouldn't want to do that. Now granted that if the less tech savvy user has someone close by to setup things for them, in your case you, then they can use Linux just fine. I'm not saying that people can't or shouldn't use Linux, but that there is a learning curve that most people simply don't want to bother with. People are comfortable with Windows, and it can be hard to wean them off of it.

For instance, right now I'm trying to install drivers for a wireless adapter in my laptop running Ubuntu. The company doesn't make Linux drivers, and the various wireless adapter Linux driver packages out there don't support my individual adapter. My one option is to run this program (can't remember what it's called, sorry) to take the normal Windows drivers, and convert them to Linux drivers. It is a pain, since, I'm still not completely used to the Linux console, but doable. Just little things like that would deter people from using Linux. It even works on me. I'm too used to Windows, so I use XP for all my work, gaming, etc. I use my Linux laptop occasionally if I just want to surf the internet or mess around. Plus, I can't really carry my desktop around now can I?

And I am glad that you're teaching daughter Linux as well. It's great to learn at any age. My grandparents worked for IBM all their lives, and I was raised to use DOS from age 6. Now granted, that I've forgotten most of it by now, but it sparked an early interest in computers that has given me a job today.

Athlon X2 5000 BE 3.1GHz, Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro, Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 AM2+, MSI 8600GTS 256MB GDDR3, Corsair XMS2 2GB DDR2 800, OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU

Janvl

6 posts since
Feb 28, 2008

9. Feb 28, 2008 10:27 AM

in response to: PCWorld

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

@Kilme

How long did it take you to learn windows 3.11 coming from dos? I guess it took some time too, so take some time toe learn to handle Linux and as for drivers and installing stuff, XP can be a menace too. With XP home I cannot make my videocamera functioning on this machine, NO help from either MS or Sony. With Linux I got it to work in an hour with the help of one of the many forums.

I have been through CPM80 - DOS - Windows 3.11 - Windows XP pro, but compared with the big OS's like IBM's SPS for S36, OS400, RSX11, VMS, Mumps or digital Unix on DEC machines then Linux is nearer to the big ones.

If you install software on Ubuntu then there is a very very simple tool (I forgot the name, never use it), or Synaptic or Automatix they all install software without ever touching a commandline.

Wireless cards is still a problem, that is true but who is to blame? Vendors not delivering linux-drivers must face the consequences, I do not buy their stuff, I even took the trouble to let them know.

The basic problem is that new linux-users do not know where to get help but Ubuntu did a great job there so maybe better no gOS but real Ubuntu with a link to the userforum.

So Kilme, start learning!

Kilme

85 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

10. Feb 28, 2008 12:54 PM

in response to: Janvl

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

To be honest, I was using Windows 3.1 at the same time on our family's home computer, so I guess it helps that I used both. And I'm sure there are much easier ways to install those drivers, but I haven't found them yet. As I've read, wireless adapters are among the most tricky things to install in Linux, so I'm sure everything else isn't too bad. I know there are Ubuntu forums to go to, and I visit them occasionally. I've dabbled with Red Hat a little bit before using Ubuntu, and I like them both. Like you said, if I took the time to learn, I'm sure I'd become a Linux junkie like many others. If I ever have some time after I'm finished with school, I'll probably put more time and effort into Linux.

But oh well, I'll stop now, since I suppose I've dragged this thread off topic.

Athlon X2 5000 BE 3.1GHz, Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro, Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 AM2+, MSI 8600GTS 256MB GDDR3, Corsair XMS2 2GB DDR2 800, OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU

KingAwesome

1 posts since
Feb 28, 2008

11. Feb 28, 2008 12:58 PM

in response to: PCWorld

$200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

I don't understand the author's reasoning at all. Because these machines don't run Windows, they're inferior? Then I guess an Apple Macintosh is inferior too. The hardware complaints are also pretty unsubstantiated. The only things the author critiques in depth are the keyboard, mouse, and speakers... these are peripherals, not components. And what does "cumbersome" mean in terms of the operating systems? I find a wool sweater to be cumbersome. But an operating system? I have no idea what this means. Ultimately, I think the author is missing the point and is completely biased. The author obviously tested these machines from the perspective that they would function just like a Windows machine made by a large manufacturer. How would these machines pan out for people who don't have access to those types of machines, like some of the lower-income people who shop at Wal-Mart who have never owned a computer? In sum, poor writing, poor analysis, and poor conclusions.

Janvl

6 posts since
Feb 28, 2008

12. Feb 28, 2008 1:49 PM

in response to: PCWorld

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

@ Kilme,

try this, it works fine

http://www.getautomatix.com/

Eric2

3 posts since
Jan 9, 2008

13. Feb 28, 2008 7:52 PM

in response to: PCWorld

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

These machines are perfect for the person looking for a $200 computer. They will surf the web, do email and chat, and use the word processor. They might also do digital photography. Mindlessly simple tasks with GNU/Linux. These machines a are far better choice for these people than ones running VISTA. VISTA needs far more computer (more expensive) to run adequately and needs to be protected from spyware, viruses and other malware (more sophistication than these people will have). The GNU/Linux boxes can get by without any protection, but will have will have up to date protection every few days if the owner clicks on the update notice.

It is nonsense to say GNU/Linux systems like Ubuntu/Kubuntu are difficult. They are different to use than Microsoft or Apple OSs, but no more difficult to learn or to switch to. I have had much more trouble trying to use a Mac than I did switching from Windows ME to Mandrake Linux (now Mandreva Linux). At the time I switched (2001) I was used to Windows and I was over 50 and I still am not the least bit geekish, though not for lack of trying. My father was over 80 when I set him up with a GNU/Linux box. He prefered it to Windows because he had less trouble and more success using the GNU/Linux system I set up for him. The most difficult thing with GNU/Linux is knowing to buy hardware based on the availablility of drivers, and even that has become a small issue.

freedom

5 posts since
Feb 27, 2008

14. Feb 28, 2008 8:02 PM

in response to: Janvl

Re: $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

Like I posted the other day, there are hundreds of choices when it comes to linux

for instance pclinuxos on installation will install all drivers and media codecs, when you first fire up the web browser you can instantly acess all muti media content

with out the use of third party installers. You might and I say might have to fiddle with your wireless if a driver has not been included in tthe kernel, this issue is getting better. What I love about Linux is choice, I don't have to be locked in to just one operating system, I can for free, try on many and find the right fit for me and my machine. Go here http://distrowatch.com/

you might want to check out dream linux, it's a very newbie friendly up and coming distro.

Also I might add, things in the linux world move very fast, what was it 7 years between windows xp and vista ? 7 years in linux life is like 70 years real time

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Feb 27, 2008 10:00 PM

$200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain

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